That's both sad and funny.

My HVAC guy had a kid working with him, said he was a natural who was great at figuring out solutions. Kid is still in HVAC, just went to a different company.

Well, give him points for honesty and big aspirations.

My husband and I own a towing company. We do police impounds. Our hiring ads are very specific: Pre-employment drug screen inc. marijuana, clean driving history, must paass DOT physical and a criminal background check. Four out of 5 applicants will say they need a couple weeks before the drug test. It never ceases to amaze me. 50% have driving histories that would fill a scroll and 25% get rejected by the PD's for failing the criminal background check. Out of 75 applicants, I might offer interviews to 10, only 5 will show up and I might get 1 hire if the stars align. It takes 90 days to train them and if they make it through traiing, most stay 5 years or more.

As my industry colleagues say, "We are in a constant hiring mode."

I might hire him anyway. Kids often have very unrealistic aspirations that evolve when they have more life experience so I wouldn't necessarily hold that against him. In the meantime, he could become a valuable and helpful assistant and have a secure, income generating trade under his belt when his dreams take longer than expected to manifest. If they do at all.............

If he was looking for someone to train for the long haul then the kid’s honesty was a good thing.

My wife works for a large Fortune 500 company. They have a very low turnover rate, many lifers. She interviews many new MBA’s from top 10 schools and is amused how often when asking about their aspirations, the candidates talk about what type jobs they hope to move to at what type of company. No, she doesn’t hire them.

When I was working in a school district the principal asked a potential teacher why she wanted to teach in our district. She said she wanted to coach volleyball. She didn't get the job.

I might have hired him. Because he had an answer.

I find many young people would say, ”I don’t know”. I like how the kid in the OP had thought about the future.

I probably would have hired him. Everyone should have dreams and aspriations. At least he was honest.

Kid, "I work two jobs. Have my own place. My own transportation. I have good references, people that will recommend me. " Interviewer, "Where do you see yourself in five years?" Kid,"I'm going to be a rapper, a millionaire, living in a mansion."

He worked two jobs with, he said, good references. Appears to be for his age, financially successful. What with social media and instant fame, coupled with hard work and a plan, I do not discount the possibility that he may in fact achieve his goals. (Although being a millionnaire is not what it used to be- statistics vary but I have seen figures that there are from 12-20 million millionnaires in the U.S.)

I'm rather less impressed with the person in this incident than most of you are. The brightest spot for me was that he had an interest in becoming an electrician apprentice, that's a worthwhile and ambitious thing to consider, something more should do (as was suggested)

The rest of it suggests he has trouble connecting the dots of life like so many people do. If you don't know how to successfully get from Point X to Point Y, or if waiting for something to fall in your lap, it won't happen. It's nice to have goals and dreams but in his case, becoming an electrician seems like a path to a different destination, not to what he wanted.

People at the lower end of the socio economic ladder, like those who would work for a towing company, often get into trouble with the law. There are police officers in their schools criminalizing simple situations which would never escalate to such a level in well off areas. And while those maybe juvenile matters that kind of contact with the criminal justice system can have negative educational consequences, setting up the child for a lifetime of trouble. This horrible negative feedback loop traps people in poverty.

I find it abhorrent that there are those who will not accept that these people have paid their debt to society and allow them meaningful employment, helping to end a terrible cycle of poverty, one which costs our entire society dearly.

Nicole, it seems to me a young person with ambition is better than a layabout without any. This person has a car, his own place, solid references, and some skill. I imagine the desire for fame and fortune could be re-chanelled into the enjoyment of plying a well paying trade. Of course maybe there were other issues we don't know about in this anecdote, but I sure hope a young person did not lose a shot at a trade because he didn't know how to keep his mouth under control.

I would have hired that kid ! He sounds like he's not afraid to work, independent, responsible, and honest . A lot can happen in five years, as we all know. He will be more mature, and will most likely change his mind before then. It sounds like he wants to learn a trade, so he will have something to fall back on in case his dream doesn't work out, which is a good thing. I hope your husband's co-worker told the kid why he didn't hire him. I would hate for him to miss out on another good job because of his honesty.

I Googled, "How many Billionaires in the USA." 614 Someone has to be working a job other than retail! :0) :0) :0)

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him. I might contact him for a second interview at least.

Zalco/bring back Sophie!,

While I understand your position, we have no input when it comes to criminal background checks. To clarify, our police contracts dictate our applicants assent in writing to a criminal background check. The police either gives us an OK to hire or a reject. We have no idea about their actual trangressions. Our contracts do give us the parameters for qualifications. Not all crimes disqualify applicants and some are limited as to how far back they look. For example a convicted Level 3 Sex Offender is a disqualification but a Level 1 conviction over 10 years old is not. Not every trangression is a disqualifications.

I do take offense to your generalization that people who work for tow companies are at the lower end of the socio-economic scale. Our veteran drivers earn in excess of 6 figures and we provide full benefits inc. health insurance, 401K, paid time off, sick time, and many othr benefits, Most own there own homes, have familes and savings. In addition, we pay our personnel to train and send them to formal training several times each year. We offer flexible scheduling so our personnel can have a life outside of work and we value family and team work.

Don't believe what you see on reality TV, There are hundreds of professional towing operations through out the US.

I'm sure interviewing practices followed by a someone in a small business are very different from what I experienced in a large organization. Among other things, we had written guidance about topics we couldn't ask about, follow up questions to avoid, other things to not mention, all in the interest of taking a wide path away from discrimination of any kind, disrespectful comments even if no insult was intended, and the like.

Still, I think the process is common for many. You never know if you're asking the right questions, you never know if answers are fully forthcoming, you never know if there were matters about which the applicant wanted to avoid and hoped wouldn't be asked about. So you're left with trying to piece together tidbits in an incomplete story to try to understand the person.

An environment not different from what foodonastump described for his wife's Fortune 500 position. The guy's description suggests someone who's immature and indecisive. And someone who was dumb enough to brashly state, as if at a bar with friends, the equivalent of "I have future plans, and they don't include working for you". To which I would think - Great, thanks for telling me, we'll not complicate your path. Why did you waste my time, be on your way, have a nice life.

I told my husband just now, about my post. He said, "You left out the part about how the kid's moving to New York in a year." Oh! That pretty much makes him a waste of time.

Without this piece of information, many of you did come to the right conclusion. The kid would get training, never reach the next level, then leave.

I see what you are saying, Elmer. I cannot help but look at this young person and think of what Nick Carraway's father told him in The Great Gatsby:

In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.

"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had."

I realize you are not criticizing this fellow, per se. But I do think of all the non-material advantages my children, and yours, obviously, have by virtue of being born into a well educated, stable, loving family with a lot of experience in the world. So much advice is passed down in mother's milk, so to say.

And what I seem to be seing in the world today is a pretty stark bifurcation between children growing up with all the non-material advantages, and those without them at all. We see the children of dirt poor immigrants who have those non-material advantages, and many other children whose parents have not made it into the stable middle class and have no advice about how to conduct themselves for their children. Learning a trade requires a solid middle class mindset, excelling in one requires ambition on top of that. I hope this person can learn what he needs to move on and build a satisfying life for himself.

NB By non-material advantages, aside from a stable, loving family, I mean the advice about how to comport onself, how to overcome obstacles, how to be disciplined, what to look for in a good life. Poor people and rich people alike have access to this kind of information. Many rich people fail to impart hese valuable lessons or provide the basic foundation of a good family life, as well. The difference is money tends to smooth out the bumps in the road for the children of the rich, provided they don't kill themselves one way or another, along the way.

You're right, zalco, and I agree with most of what you said. Interviewing for a new hire in any situation, even for a self employed person who works alone and is looking for part time assistance, is like running through a crowded room in pitch darkness. A few inputs (never enough), little visibility and not much insight, and unseen obstacles all around. Then, if you get to the end without a collision, the need to make an important decision quickly that has financial, emotional, and other consequences. It's very hard. I wasn't criticizing the guy per se, just reflecting on my own interviewing experiences over many years and pointing out the inevitable take aways from limited information that influenced my conclusion.

I think you've also summarized the importance of what you've called non-material advantages. Mentorship. Practical guidance and inspiration. Instilling values. All of the things that parents need to impart to their kids as tools for their transitioning to adult life. It's as likely to be available from poor parents who want more in life for their kids than they've had as well as from more better off ones.

MOST parents are clueless and inattentive to these needs for their kids Yes, more economic means in the family can smooth out the bumps but I know and I'm sure you know lots of kids from affluent families who were not given good guidance and leadership and where they have wound up as adults is telling no matter what. I can think of one family with three kids, one of whom was a high school friend of one of my kids. The father is/was a very successful surgeon who made a bunch of money. Mother was a successful writer. The kids were mostly ignored. One had the personal desire and drive to get himself to a good place as an adult, the other two are what I will unkindly describe as failures to launch, shiftless losers. Thankfully Mommy and Daddy have enough money to support them well into (the kids) middle ages years and the support will continue when they die.

I might have given the guy an opportunity if his references are as good as he says. Many of the comments above are critical of his response. So I am interested in how you think he should have responded.

Working as an apprentice, then quitting after your trained...to pursue a "Money for nothin' and chicks for free" career"....(song lyrics).......uh....no. I wouldn't have hired the guy either.

The correct response: I'm willing to learn a new trade and yes,,,after a year I'll be able to run jobs for your company.

His response showed him to be immature and unjustifiably cocky. Lacking in the non-material advantages and values zalco mentioned.

With a little more humility, respect for others, and recognizing what would appear to be a limited and short term horizon for a new job, he'd probably realize that what might be more suitable for him would be a fast food job or something else with a less than career perspective. With a little more sense, he'd go back to the drawing board to select more realistic goals and lay out a path to achieve them. It doesn't happen from crowing about oneself.

I can understand an employer‘s desire to keep employees once they have invested in training. Anytime someone is hired for any job there is no guarantee of long term employment from either the employer or employee side (at least for ’at will’ employment).

Elmer, I’ve lurked here long enough to recall that you are or were working in the Silicon Valley area. I spent several decades working for a tech company with a large presence in there and around the globe. In the late 90’s thru 00’s, people barely stayed a year at one company. If more money, stock options, etc. were offered, they left and took knowledge with them (as long as they didn’t violate a NDA). I still see this where I am today. We hire engineers fresh out of school. We get an eager graduate willing to accept a lower than average salary to gain experience and after a year or two, they move onto one of the big tech companies. The owner of the company acknowledges this. Whether or not this is a good hiring strategy is debatable.

If this guy is as hard working as he said, maybe he will one day realize his dream of being a rapper. But more likely he’ll land a position somewhere working for a contractor and once he has a few years of experience under his belt, he will set up his own business.

It just rubbed me the wrong way that the comments were so critical of this interview. I think the average age on this forum skews ’older’ (me included), and I don’t care for the critical attitudes between the generations. Just relating my experience and opinion.

JMHO (You don't tell a potential employer their job sucks when applying for a job)

So. A nephew, after some college, took a job managing a small co-op organic grocery. They closed right at beginning of pandemic. He enjoyed the supplemental unemployment for a while, then took a job in a department store. They took one look at his 6'4" frame and second month put him on shop lifting detail which he hated ;0)

Earlier this summer he took a position with an HVAC company and discovered he really likes it. Some engineering in his background and the work suits him. The company sent him out of state to some classes for a few weeks, has been training him while paying him and providing company benefits. Before the classes that they paid for, they asked him to sign a contract saying if they trained him, provided additional outside training, that he would stay there and work for minimum of one year. He happily signed.

He's another kid who would love for music to somehow be his career. What he's found is that it rarely or at least not initially will pay the rent.

" We hire engineers fresh out of school. We get an eager graduate willing to accept a lower than average salary to gain experience and after a year or two"

Yes, Silicon Valley, but I believe what you're describing (insofar as pay level is concerned) hasn't been the case here for decades and decades. Top graduates from the best schools (which is what the top companies look for) are in short supply and are paid a premium, along with generous benefits and perks. It's true and has long been the case. They want to be in Silicon Valley because it's sexy and the job opportunities with countless other sexy companies all experiencing shortages provide options when a change is desired. It's also true that few, whether in technical jobs or otherwise, have the attitude of the "salaryman" corps in Japan, who want jobs to last them until retirement. Frequent job changes, so long as not lateral, are not a negative on a resume. But are also not necessarily the rule for all.

This kid isn't on the same planet as those with substantive preparation for job performance, whether looking to work a job (whether white color or blue color) requiring experience, prior training or competence. From the description, he's young and immature, unskilled, cocky, and expecting people to have the same disproportionate attitude about his paltry qualifications described in his spiel that he finds impressive himself. When offered a job with aspects of substantive training and mentorship providing an entry to a trade, his reaction was to say he was leaving town in a year. Not the same or even comparable situation, heritage. Nicole's husband's work colleague has a good sense of smell.

Upbeat story, morz8. The world of HVAC is a great trade and will always be in demand. It sounds like your nephew has landed with a decent employer. I hope it works out for him.

Not everyone is wired to go to college nor should they be. Not every college is worth going to (very many aren't), and as a society we make it too hard for young people to be given opportunities to enter trades that provide lifetime employment prospects and good pay. We need them, a lot more than the corps of mediocre students our system produces who hide from adult life by completing easy, go nowhere majors at mediocre schools and then find themselves at graduation at about where they were when they started - no career interests, no career opportunities and limited or no courses of study completed that provide qualifications for career directions.

Moosemac, my apologies for not answering you sooner. I just now noticed your answer to me. I am disappointed, though not surprised as to the police being the reason you cannot hire ex-offenders. To be clear, I understand the optics and am far from being pro-crime, yet I feel strongly that some populations are more agressively policed and convicted than others. This cycle is very expensive for society. We are telling people that once they find themselves on the wrong side of the law, there is no getting back to the right side.

As for your quarel with my use of the term lower socio-economic, it is what it is. Blue collar work, no matter how renumerative is blue collar work. That is why it's called socio-economic, and not just economic standing. There are all sorts of capital in society which do not correspond to money in the bank, though there may be a correlation. My education, formal and informal, gives me privileges (outside of my profession) which others do not have.

David Brooks wrote an excellent piece in the Atlantic last month explaining how difficult it can be for people not in the upper echelons to even learn the basic social codes to gain entry into that class. If you watch the film adaptation of JD Vance's memoir, Hillbilly Elegy, on Netflix, you may remember a scene where Vance needs to call his girlfriend in order to navigate an important business/hiring dinner at his law school. Nobody would have noticed or minded had Vance used the wrong water goblet (taking his neighbor's instead of his own,) but the discomfort it caused Vance could be a real impediment to his successfully putting his candidacy for employment in a White Shoe law firm forward. It's hard to shine when you are sweating social details.

I realize this can all sound quite snobby. Reality can be tough. I for one admire and respect people who earn their living in any honest manner, bonus points for showing initiative and integrity.

Here is David Brooks's piece from The Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/09/blame-the-bobos-creative-class/619492/

A little about Hillbilly Elegy:

PS I do not believe anyone is less than I am for want of a formal education. I do not judge people for better or worse based on their income. Six figures or 10, none of that matters to me. Kindness, integrity, curiosity, a great work ethic, intelligence, and initiative, these are the qualities that impress, and inspire, me.

I don't think it's about feeling superior for having worked, made money, invested well and come out the tunnel with a well-earned-lifestyle. This job-interview is an example of kids thinking there's easy money to be made and anyone who works hard is a duffus.

If this kid just wanted a job in the music industry, he'd be playing his guitar on a street corner, earning tips on the weekend. Playing for free in bars, after work at night, until he's discovered. But the dream was to be a millionaire without working hard. The odds of being a lotto winner, planning your life around the winnings you feel you deserve.....is just absurd.

Sometimes, kids do have unrealistic expectations, and do not always have the quality of judgment that older people have.

This kid had already proven his worth by having two jobs, good references, and for his age, moderate financial success. He has worked hard. There is no proof that his dream was to become a millionnaire without working hard.

At worst, his timeline may (or may not) be unrealistic, but some further years of experience may temper that. There are success stories for rappers in particular who succeeded at a young age. Does he have the talent? IDK. His actual talent was never discussed.

How old is this "kid", 16 or 18 or ??? Did I miss that? Some people are late bloomers, as my mom would say. I have young relatives that didn't get their act together till past 30. We all mature at a different age.

I didn't see anything in the OP that indicated this kid is afraid of hard work, or wants everything the easy way. I don't think someone working two jobs is afraid of work.

That being said, his age and his moving to NY in a year would have made a difference in whether I would hire him, or not.

I like to see more honest & independent kids like him. He may want the job because it pays better than his other jobs, in order to pursue his future dreams. From an employer’s perspective, it takes time and lots of money to train a new hire, and to retain the employee. So if the employer is looking for a long timer, he won’t be a good fit.

I mentioned our neighbor for a couple of reasons. Yes, he had all the 'advantages', including two parent-paid college degrees. Yes, he realized he wasn't going to be that Rock Star, nor even a manager for one. However, he has managed to make a living (mostly bar-tending) while still making music, because it's that important to him.

Yes, he *could* have gone into the lucrative family business, but he knew he'd hate it. His parents were disappointed that he didn't become third generation in the firm, but they realize that he's doing something essential to *his happiness*. For him, his job is the side-gig!