@texanjana that is interesting! So they are doing follow-up testing with all of their patients who have had Covid? How often are they testing them? I do believe @OllieJane has been tested since she had Covid as she recently said her antibodies were still quite high. But I'm not sure how long after having Covid she was tested??? @OllieJane can you enlighten us?

There is NO test to show your antibodies are high or low. You have them or you don't. You may have an accurate test result or you may not. Please read the link from the FDA. There is SO much misinformation everywhere and it's impossible to explain it all to someone. This is the best accurate info I could find. c

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/antibody-serology-testing-covid-19-information-patients-and-consumers

Well I'm really bumfumbled now! LOL My friend, I think I mentioned here before, is a kidney transplant patient (20+ years). Her kidney dr. and transplant dr. both told her that transplant patients' antibodies were not rising as high as others who have received vaccine or had covid. She has had vaccine. She is part of a study where they check antibody levels. It's being conducted at our teaching hospital now. I'm really confused.

OK, perhaps you can. I would count info such as @User posted above (FDA) as reliable info. I found this article from NIH, who I would also consider reputable. ??? Or possibly there is new and different research each day since the pandemic?

antibodies

Texasjana, there is antibody testing-which true, antibodies can wane after just a few months. BUT, there is also a more specific test-which shows your immunity in your tcells/bcells after being infected with Covid. It sounds like your GP is talking about ONLY the regular antibody test-that people recently infected with Covid are only good for around 90 days. It does amaze me how GP's, who obviously are treating people with Covid, don't even know this information, and I have encountered it with my sons GP and a couple of others. Talk about disinformation or misinformation, however you want to look at it. I had to tell my new GP back in April 2021, about the first test I took, and she was happy to order it for me. She did not know about this particular one. She says she orders it all the time now for patients.

Yes, Tina, I actually took another Sars-Covid tcell/bcell test last week to make sure I was still showing immunity and it showed anything above .79 has immunity in their tcells, mine showed 982! I had Covid a year ago this September. So still strong, after almost a year. I just wish my first test would have given me an exact number, but instead it showed my immunity as greater than >250. I would have loved to have seen what it was a year ago vs. now.

To be clear, if I took a regular antibody test today, it would probably show negative antibodies-UNLESS I have been exposed to someone recently with Covid. And, IF I had been exposed to someone, my tcells/bcells would then kick in and will make antibodies to fight off the virus. It's the same thing goes for chicken pox. So, it's like my immunity lies dormant in my tcells/b(memory)cells, which I believe is in your bone marrow, and even though I don't have antibodies right now, my memory cells will then generate antibodies for me, to fight off the virus, when I need them. I am not the best at explaining and of course, this is in layman's terms.

Any studies that have been done recently on Covid19 immunity, can show you have immunity only as long as Covid19 has been around, so they cannot say it will be 99+ years yet, i.e. chicken pox, measles, etc. since we haven't been dealing with it for 99+ years. But experts are thinking it could be lifelong also. I will keep checking mine and see if my number stays around the same or not.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-00920-9

https://www.google.com/search?q=Sars+covid+tcell+b+cell+immunity+test&oq=Sars+covid+tcell+b+cell+immunity+test&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i22i29i30.15831j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

lots of info here on the more expansive testing for immunity. Most folks however will not be getting this sort of test as a rule until much broader availability .

Much easier at present to be aware and use good sense in ones behavior and get vaccinated. c

@OllieJane, what is the exact name of the test? I googled Sars-Covid tcell/bcell test and the results were unclear.

" But experts are thinking it could be lifelong also."

That would be fine if the only version of Covid out there were the original alpha version. But it isn't. Covid, unlike, say measles, is mutating and mutating quickly. Experts already know that the Delta version of Covid can evade immune responses from prior infection with the Alpha version and that the vaccines are not as effective against it either - but the vaccines can change to target Delta or Lambda or whatever comes next while "natural immunity" is not going to be as adaptable. That's why the experts already know that people who have been vaccinated after having Covid are less vulnerable than people who have not been vaccinated after having it.

@deegw https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-adaptive-biotechnologies-t-detect-covid-test

jmm, that only goes for the vaccine. The vaccine you have taken now, does not cover Delta. Natural immunity is believed to be more broadly covered than the vaccine. So, including Delta. We will have to wait and see about future mutations, but they all mutate FROM Covid 19. It didn't change completely.

Hi C, I saw that but didn't see a mention of "b cell" so I was unsure if it was the same test.

I heard a doctor talking about this today. She explained that as we are learning more, we are learning that antibodies do not give us the whole story. Memory cells appear to determine how well someone who has previously had Covid will thwart off a new exposure. I don't pretend to understand all the science in the attached link, but am passing it on to some of the more capable in our group here: Memory Cells and Covid

deegw, at Labcorp it is called "SARS-CoV-2 Semi-Quant Total AB".

From the CDC webite:

"Antibody tests for COVID-19 look for the presence of antibodies made in response to a previous infection or vaccination. They are an indicator of the body’s efforts to fight off the SARS-CoV-2 virus. None of the currently authorized SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests have been validated to evaluate specific immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Antibody testing is NOT currently recommended to assess

• Immunity to COVID-19 following COVID-19 vaccination
• The need for vaccination in an unvaccinated person"

I’m guessing my DH was the one 2katz was referring to in her original post. We are now 4 weeks out from his testing positive. He has good days and bad days. Coughing and shortness of breath are the symptoms that have lingered. His sense of smell comes and goes.

What we’ve found the most frustrating is getting information that you can hang your hat on. Last week after being up all night coughing, we called his PCP. One of our questions was is he still contagious. Whomever we talked to on the phone said yes. That was 2.5 weeks after testing positive. They told him to go to urgent care to get a chest xray. They did that along with an EKG as he has a cardiac history including bypass surgery. Everything came back fine and his oxygen level was good. They want him to wait 30 days and then have a stress test, as they’ve found Covid can impact the heart. The urgent care doctor said he was no longer contagious. We were also told he could get this again 90 days afterward.

So we are wearing masks when going out of the house, both inside and out, and limiting contact. We were supposed to be in NYC this week, but cancelled that. We have a family wedding in October that I’m really thinking hard about skipping.

Have to wonder if this really is our new normal for good.

I don't have time right now to see exactly what this particularly antibody test is, but at least it could be a move in the right direction for those of us who don't want a vaccine, due to already having Covid. Companies should let you provide proof that your immunity is definately as good as getting the vaccines available right now, actually better due to the vaccinated spreading. Hopefully we will be hearing more about this in the media.

https://www.whio.com/news/local/dayton-childrens-hospital-protesters-argue-against-vaccine-mandate-hospital-backs-its-decision/VGUH7NKNEJCR7GT4AH7NF5BL4M/

I am confused about the positive antibodies test they are using, but maybe it's the same just another name?

"Companies should let you provide proof that your immunity is definately as good as getting the vaccines available right now, actually better due to the vaccinated spreading."

The problem is, of course, that your immunity is not necessarily better, or even as good. Companies that need FDA approval are not going to make claims that cannot be supported by scientific evidence. In its own Web pages on the test Labcorp cites the FDA ruling that test results should not be used as an evaluation of the person's level of immunity, and adds "at this time it is unknown how long antibodies persist following infection and if the presence of antibodies confers protective immunity."

Frankly, I think your GP is misusing the test .

The sad truth is, there is new and changing data all the time, and the upshot of it all is, we don't yet definitively know or understand every thing people want and need to know about the virus, the mutations, the duration of efficacy of the vaccines, the usefulness of antibody testing, so on and so forth. It may be years before it is all clear and settled. That is just the nature of dealing with a new disease.

Some things that we do know, that haven't changed for close to a year, is that the virus is spread via the air - wear masks! The virus is mutating - wear masks! It is highly contagious - wear masks and avoid gatherings! And get vaccinated.

@OllieJane I”m thinking that if a vaccinated person could spread, then so could one with acquired immunity.

@User I am truly interested in others' thoughts on this topic. I may not agree with someone's choice, but it is their choice. I am hopeful we can continue to do so without belittling one another. I am curious and find the scientific side of this (of which I understand little lol) fascinating!

Deleted comment . I don’t agree. c

@nhbaskets - yes, it was you. Thank you for the update. I hope your DH continues to improve. These are very trying times.

@User I am sorry - I hope I didn't offend you!! You had every right to post your thoughts. :(

@Tina Marie no problem.

jmm, I know you hate to see this, and want me to be wrong SO badly, but...

...coming out in the "The Journal of Immunology" in the September 1, 2021 issue.

https://www.jimmunol.org/content/207/5/1344

1/ “Following a typical case of mild Covid-19, SARSCoV2–specific CD8+ Tcells not only persist but continuously differentiate in a coordinated fashion well into convalescence into a state characteristic of long-lived, self-renewing memory”

2/ “Importantly, relative to antibodies, Tcells are less prone to evasion by the variants of concern emerging worldwide, suggesting a potentially important role for these immune effectors in long-term population-based immunity in the years ahead.”

3/ “If one assumes similarities to nucleocapsid- specific CD8+ Tcells from SARSCoV1, then the course of differentiation we describe here may be one that leads to SARSCoV2-specific memory CD8+ Tcells that can persist for up to 17 years, and perhaps even longer.”

Tina, not true. The naturally immune is NOT spreading. If someone already has been infected with the measles for instance, they do not spread it again. But, I appreciate your appreciating everyone's choice comment above. I mean that. I must have missed Trailrunner's lovey comment.

eta: Everyone SHOULD want to know the truth.

It’s not all about you @OllieJane. Put yourself aside for a moment and give some thought to Mr Nhbaskets and others who may be suffering from Covid right now through no fault of their own.

Just got home from hospital. DH had a tough day today with shortness of breath and chest pains. We called PCP and they suggested going to ER. So glad we did. They are admitting him (still waiting for room—the inn is full) and will be doing scan of his heart and lungs looking for Covid scarring. Will also do the stress test.

I’ve had a lot of experience with my DH going into the hospital through the ER, both by ambulance and walking in. I’ve never seen the ER stacked up the way it was tonight. People were out in the hallway waiting to get in. Inside there were people on beds in the hallways. I feel so bad for the health care providers. I can’t imagine working like this for well over a year.

Nhbaskets, wish I could give you the biggest hug. I hope with all my heart your DH feels better and is able to come home soon. And I hope you’re doing ok, and can get some rest tonight. ❤️

Just saw this (speaking of hospitals being full):

https://people.com/health/u-s-army-veteran-dies-of-treatable-illness-fter-being-unable-to-get-a-hospital-bed-in-time-due-to-pandemic-shortages/

2katz, you are way out of line. Maybe you should read through the whole post again, and why you single me out, is very telling.

Nhbaskets, so sorry about your husband and what you are going through! Hoping for better news soon…

Thoughts and prayers with you @nhbaskets. Keep us posted please.

@Jilly - such a tragic situation. That’s what scares the he!! out of me. We can take precautions to protect ourselves from Covid but heart attack, stroke or a myriad of other unpredictable conditions could kill us because hospitals have no capacity due to the demands created by unvax’d Covid patients. I try not to think about it.…,

NHBaskets, I'm so sorry. Sending you thoughts of strength and comfort and healing for your DH.

NHBaskets, I'm so sorry to hear this. You've already been dealing with this for a few weeks now, and when things get worse rather than better after a length of time, it can be really difficult. Your emotional reserves have already been tapped and now you must ratchet it all up. I'm praying for you that he gets quick, effective treatment in the hospital and is able to come home again soon.

I’m sorry to hear this @nhbaskets. I hope his treatment goes smoothly.

Praying for your husband @nhbaskets

NHbaskets, I'm so sorry to hear this update. I'm glad he is getting treated quickly. Feel free to lean on us when you need support. We're here for you.

Nhbaskets, Your husband, you and your family are in in my thoughts and prayers. Hoping for a quick recovery.

So sorry to hear this NHbaskets - I hope your DH steadily improves and you stay strong and healthy.

Thinking of you and your family NHbaskets.

(((NHbaskets)))

My coworker's husband had tightening and pain in his chest this week. Coworker drove him to the ER and he was turned away. Luckily, he is veteran and lives close to a VA hospital so he went there and was seen. Luckily it turned out to not be a heart problem, but it's scary that a person presenting with chest pain is turned away.

@nhbaskets my thoughts are with you and your DH and your family . I sincerely hope he recovers quickly and with no ill effects.Sending strength to you all.

NHbaskets sending healing thoughts your way. So glad your husband was able to get in there! So scary for those who aren't able to have treatment when needed right now!

GF just told me her DH has covid. They were both fully vaccinated. She's getting checked today to see if she tests positive. He travels a lot on business, so I doubt he knows where his exposure happened.

NH Baskets, I am thinking of you and your family and I hope DH is doing better. Take care of yourself, too, NHb.

NHb—-I hope your husband recovers quickly and is home soon.

"I’ve had a lot of experience with my DH going into the hospital through the ER, both by ambulance and walking in. I’ve never seen the ER stacked up the way it was tonight. People were out in the hallway waiting to get in. Inside there were people on beds in the hallways. I feel so bad for the health care providers. I can’t imagine working like this for well over a year."

Like NHBaskets I was in an ER this week and had the exact same experience/reaction.

My father broke his hip Tuesday, evidently trying to get up and probably relieve himself at the ALF where he is in memory care. He was taken to the closest emergency room at an excellent hospital nearby. I've been there many times with my MIL who also has dementia and also is in memory care-at the same ALF(!) and who used to fall regularly.

Because of his mental state I was allowed to go in. The entrances were closed, instead the only way in was through a giant tent set up with airlocks and which had a huge temporary waiting room inside, filled with what must have been a couple of hundred people sitting waiting for treatment-all with masks, some lying down, mostly young to middle aged.

My dad stayed on a gurney in the hallway; there were no cubicles open. I sat with him in the hall for almost 8 hours, which happened to be near the ambulance bay. No exaggeration, literally every 2-3 minutes along came a pair of EMTs wheeling patients into the ER. People unconscious, people gasping for breath, people with those bag valve breathing masks, mostly young with a few middle agers and only a couple of elderly folks.

It was like being in the modern version of those woodcuts of plague wards. My dad was there 24 hours before we could get him moved to an inpatient hospice care facility. The doctor told me 70 people were waiting for a bed so my father never got out of that hallway, with morphine IV going and COVID victims streaming by.

More info. As I stated before it will be decades before we know enough. First of all there is NO resemblance between the viruses that cause MMRV. Read this statement about breakthrough infections and booster/immunity.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/12/can-someone-who-recovered-spread-COVID19

Second here is more info on breakthrough of Covid after vaccination and whether you are then contagious . Note the 4th bullet point >

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

There are several disease causing viruses (and bacteria) that we humans do not develop lasting immunity to - either because they mutate, or because we simply don't mount a strong antibody defense to them..

I saw a report of a study that looked at people with mild Covid, (a single, small study, so one should NOT take it as gospel yet) that found that about 7% of the study subjects had developed no antibodies to Covid from their infection.

The second link of trailrunners post mentions this

Vaccination is the best way to protect yourself, your family, and your community. High vaccination coverage will reduce spread of the virus and help prevent new variants from emerging. CDC recommends that everyone aged 12 years and older get vaccinated as soon as possible.

(Bold is mine)

This is something that I've been wondering about but haven't seen any article address this point about new variants. There are other variants out there but I do wonder about new ones and whether a vaccine can actually prevent the emergence of new ones.