That's odd that his CU won't refinance their own loan -- I've not run across that the couple times I've refinanced home (both bank and CU loans).

Not sure how to get the best rate, but assume they're all going to be competitive, but do take note of closing costs, points, etc that could make a difference. You could do a general 'net search for mortgage rates in your area to see if a list of comparables pops up.

My sister in Texas also thought that it was odd. I think I should get my brother to pose the request to his CU again and specify that he wants to convert the loan from 15 year to 30 year and see if that makes a difference. I did not trust the information we got on Saturday, especially we got it from a teller and not from a loan officer.

Banks go hot/cold regarding the business they are looking for. In two weeks, who knows, the CU might start doing refis.

Why do you not want to use a mortgage broker? That's the best way to get the best rate available and also the best service.

Don't ask a teller about refinancing policy.

Each time I refinanced it was with the same Credit Union that held the original note.

This is what I read about mortgage brokers:

<Working with a mortgage broker can save you time and fees. Cons to consider include that a broker's interests may not be aligned with your own, you may not get the best deal, and they may not guarantee estimates. Take the time to contact lenders directly to find out first hand what mortgages may be available to you.>

I'll try to get my brother to contact his CU again, but he already told me that he was willing to accept what the teller told him as being gospel.

I did look up a few mortgage brokers on Yelp and found a couple on the Westside close to where we live, but I still do not know whether this is the best way to go. One of them has license information on Yelp, and the other does not. Does this matter?

"I think I should get my brother to pose the request to his CU again and specify that he wants to convert the loan from 15 year to 30 year and see if that makes a difference."

I wonder if the word convert threw the teller for a loop -- i.e. if he would have asked about refinancing rather than "converting", would she have said the same thing.

You can just call the CU mortgage dept yourself and pose the general question if they offer refinancing and if they do, will they refinance one of their own existing loans. Simple enough question any loan officer will be able to answer.

A friend of mine spent his career as a financial type working for large developers. One of his jobs was to work with banks to set up favorable loan facilities for buyers. Anyway, back door into saying that last year when I wanted to refi a mortgage, I called him and asked him for suggestions. He said he was in progress with several refi's with a lender that has several aliases - Charles Schwab Mortgages or Quicken Loans or Rocket Mortgage - all the same company.

He said he was impressed with the experience and rates were very good. He said I should also check with the current lender, which was a national bank with an active RE loan division. I called them, their rate was about 1/2% higher than Rocket. I called a few others too, same result.

I called the manager at Rocket he was dealing with. Their rates at the time (about a year ago) were better than other I found online and loan fees and closing costs were also lower. I went forward with them and I have to say it was an excellent experience. Professional, efficient, and they kept all their promises.

It's a mostly online and by telephone operation. Give them a try.

I did contact a realtor friend Mark in Utah, and he said that he gave my phone number to his mortgage agent (or whatever his title is). He told me that if I get refinancing from Utah that the closing costs will be lower than if I do it in California, where the closing cost rates are higher. Mark told me that he always uses this agent and that this agent often refers Mark as a realtor, and they split some of the profits. I am beginning to wonder if Mark expects to make money from this agent by referring me, but I will try to get some competitive bidding.

Mark also warned me not to use Rocket, but I guess he has had bad experience with them.

I plan on contacting an agent in El Segundo, as that is close to me, and he got very good reviews, from what I can see on line. I don't know how much to trust these reviews.

I will call Kevin's CU after I speak with the agent that Mark referred.

I just did a refi though Chase and found them very easy to work with and very competitive rates. Website: www.chase.com

Dealing with a mortgage broker is like dealing with an independent insurance agency, in that you can wind up paying more (either in the interest rate or points/closing costs) to cover the commission earned by the broker. And they don't need to build relationships with you, it's a book your loan and move on relationship. Lenders and the people who book loans that work for them seem to have a longer term view.

I don't know your friend, lars, but in my experience the world of realtors is not inhabited by people who are particularly astute or well informed in general. Think of them as being like State Farm insurance agents and don't ask any questions or for them to do anything that's outside of their lane, they'll get lost quickly. I think that closing cost comment he gave you is bizarre. He's in a small town in a small state, that eliminates the breadth of his perspective to me.

If you’re a Costco member, I’d recommend going through them. You complete an application online and several of their affiliated mortgage lenders will contact you within minutes. We went this route with a re-fi a few years ago and were very pleased with service, interest rates, and fees.

I did start a loan application through First Entertainment Credit Union (requesting a Sony/Culver City agent), and this looks like it might be promising. We will have to go on the Sony lot to meet with the agent, and Kevin said that he will have to go through an application process in order to be allowed on the lot, but I think he is being overly dramatic about this. We have a FECU agent now, and I told him that she will be able to help him with this process, and I am not concerned with having to go through Sony security to get onto the lot to meet with the credit union agent.

From what I can tell, we can indeed refinance through the credit union where we already have our loan, but I still want to consider other options, as I am not sure that this will be the best deal for us. For loans of this amount, small differences in details can result in large differences in overall and long term costs.

I filed a request through Loan Depot on line, and they forced me to agree to allow them to send me spam email and robo calls, but I made sure that I would be able to opt out of this agreement. This was a major turnoff regarding this company, but I will see how it turns out. I will be very upset if this results in me getting more robo calls, as currently I rarely receive those, and I never answer them. I find it offensive that they would make me agree to allow them to have me be contacted via spam email and robo calls.

I am not a Costco member and never will be. I have an extremely strong aversion to Costco, for several reasons.

Mark lived most of his life in Salt Lake City, which is where he has had most of his real estate experience, but I guess that can be considered a small town.

I'm going to share another of my experiential biases, lars. Retail banks these days seem to be full of dunderheads. I've had too many experiences where I had to suggest to them different things they could do that they didn't suggest or seem to be immediately familiar with themselves. I use mostly online banks now and the service and caliber of employees seems to be a notch or two higher. My Rocket Mortgage online banking experience for the refi loan was head and shoulders better than the national bank loan experience I had less than 3 years ago, its people were more knowledgeable and much more customer experience oriented. .

One step further, credit unions seem to hire and be run by people who weren't even smart enough to be dunderheads at a retail bank. They're the minor league by comparison. I'm sure there are exceptions. I have an account at one for a specific reason (credit card related) but limit what I do with them and when I occasionally have to call them, it can be painful.

Try several sources large and small. Ultimately a loan is a loan, spend a bit more of your own time to find the best combo of price and service. Don't forget closing costs and loan points are as essential to total up as are the interest rate and monthly payment figures.

Both the original loan and the refi on my house was through a local credit union. I can't rave enough about the positive experience I had working with a small local lender. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I never would have gotten approved for the mortgage on this house through a big box bank or mortgage lender. All they do IME is run the numbers and if you don't fit too bad you're denied.

Banking and loan operations are much more tightly regulated by the appropriate agencies since the last lending collapse than ever before. Any lender who doesn't run the numbers and a whole lot more will find themselves in trouble. Maybe you just didn't have visibility to what they did.

I'm glad you had a good experience. I checked with my credit union when doing the refi and they were not competitive, nearly a half a point higher than many others in the market. Same is true with their other loans too each time I've checked, including car loans.

I've read some good reviews of Rocket Mortgage, and when I used their calculator, I got a very good estimate, and so I will keep them in mind.

I think you may be right about credit unions hiring dunderheads, and I did convince Kevin that this was the case.

I also noticed on the back of the mortgage bill that the mortgage appears to be held by Raymond James Bank in Lake Zurich, Illinois. This makes me think that it might be better to use a different bank for our next mortgage, since the credit union farms out its mortgages. They do not list the bank by name, but I found it by looking up the addresses on the back of the bill. They were all for Suite 360 at 1 Corporate Drive in Lake Zurich, IL.

I am beginning to agree that a completely on-line bank might be better. It seems that they would have lower overhead.

"Any lender who doesn't run the numbers and a whole lot more will find themselves in trouble. Maybe you just didn't have visibility to what they did."

I didn't mean to imply that they didn't run numbers and judge my creditworthiness -- just that they worked with me to get a grasp on our financial situation rather than nope, sorry, you don't fit our criteria; in other words, I didn't neatly fit into the boxes but a real LIVE PERSON mortgage lender worked it out with me rather than a computer algorithm or numbskull real live person incapable of exercising independent judgement giving me the automatic boot. And, she promptly issued updated pre-approval letters (not prequalification) for every house I bid on (there were multiple).

Are you going to get that level of service from an on-line lender or retail bank should you need it? I needed it, I need support from an actual person, and I doubt I would have gotten any of that from either of those types of lenders. I'm sure the experiences of other differs, but that was my experience with a local credit union.

Lars,

Regarding Loan Depot, perhaps I was not clear. I wnet through a Mortgage Broker and my mortgage was placed with Loan Depot. I did not apply directly to Loan Depot online. This was for an investment property.

"I didn't mean to imply that they didn't run numbers and judge my creditworthiness -- just that they worked with me to get a grasp on our financial situation rather than nope, sorry, you don't fit our criteria; in other words, I didn't neatly fit into the boxes but a real LIVE PERSON mortgage lender worked it out with me rather than a computer algorithm or numbskull real live person incapable of exercising independent judgement giving me the automatic boot."

How is it that you think you can compare an experience you had, to one you apparently haven't had and know nothing about?

I had a number of discussions - maybe 10 in total - with the lead on my application. He was understanding, knowledgeable, and listened well. He was available by phone nearly 18 hours a day - I never called him outside of business hours but he always returned my calls same day. I was able to explain and get him comfortable with several aspects of my personal situation that are important but somewhat unconventional. It couldn't have been easier.

I am now receiving several calls a day with the heading "Spam Risk" on my phone, and so of course I do not answer them. I never used to get these calls.

block and delete or if your phone has the option to only accept calls from numbers in your contact list...................well. There are free apps for call blocking (which is what I do).

"How is it that you think you can compare an experience you had, to one you apparently haven't had and know nothing about?"

I ask the same question of you.

Lars -- yes agree to block or delete, and unfortunate you now have to deal with that on top of trying to find a lender you're comfortable working with to get the best deal.

I talked about my encounters with people of limited ability and knowledge at credit unions over the years and the uncompetitive loan rates every time I look into it.

Where did I mention anything about the experience of getting a mortgage from one? I said nothing about an experience I haven't had. As you did about getting a loan from a commercial bank, something you've apparently not done recently.

As you did about getting a loan from a commercial bank, something you've apparently not done recently."

You are incorrect. My multiples experiences of having mortgages financed through commercial banks is what I gauged the assessment of firmly believing they wouldn't have financed me this time around.

My assessment of you, although I'm pretty confident you're going to disagree, is that you want posters to take your experiences as word and discount everyone else's. Why is that? Why are your experiences the only ones that matter? News flash -- THEY AREN'T.

Your usual sparring partner hasn't yet appeared on this thread, and I don't feel like going rounds with you tonight. So goodnight.

Let's get back to focusing Lars' questions and concerns.

My next question is whether I am able to submit multiple loan requests at the same time. I assume that this is the only way that I can get costs to compare. I have started a loan application with Kevin's credit union and I also started one with Rocket Mortgage, partly because it was very easy to do, and they are very responsive.

I really do not know what to make of my friend Mark's referral in Utah. He sent me an application to fill out on my phone, but then I finally discovered how to apply on line without using an app on my phone. I guess it cannot hurt to get pricing from him also.

Not at all, mkx, my attention is drawn by people trying to explain things they may not well understand or seemingly making less than fully informed comments. And, like the person I think you're referring to, trying to talk through the top of his hat until he gets questioned, at which point, he often backpedals. I've moved on from interacting with him most of the time, he's really pretty clueless. And admits to often making things up.

If the loan app experiences you described are recent, you might have said so, it seemed like a blanket shade comment.

My refi closed 7 months ago and because I was given the direction by a friend who, as I said, spent most of his career in real estate finance on a public company level, I was sharing that resource and my excellent experience. If you want to deal with a credit union, great. Just don't kid yourself where they are on the food chain.

I'm not grasping why the lenders you're dealing with aren't giving you the information you want up front. Are you asking that of them or just thinking you need to jump right in and apply to get information? They should be willing to clearly outline the interest rate and all associated closing costs without you having to submit an application; I would be very wary using any lender who did not do this. Even if you don't interact with an actual person, the info should be publicly available on their website.

I would not be comfortable starting multiple loan applications. It's not only an inconvenience, I'd be worried about too much personal info floating around out there and along with that, increased risk of identify theft. In other words --> limit your exposure (yes, even banks/lenders/gov't agencies/etc get hacked). Also, if you proceed to the point where they're doing checks on your credit, it could negatively impact your credit score.

What’s The Difference Between A Hard And Soft Credit Check? – Forbes Advisor

"I would not be comfortable starting multiple loan applications. It's not only an inconvenience, I'd be worried about too much personal info floating around out there and along with that, increased risk of identify theft"

Oh heavens, comments like this are what grab my attention, baseless concerns. You're able to borrow money without a loan app containing personal info and without credit checks being done? Do you think supplying such information to lenders puts it out into public access?

When were the last occasions you applied for mortgages, as you stated you have? Were you a victim of public disclosure of your information and identity theft caused by this activity?

Here's a quote from the Forbes site that you linked to regarding multiple inquiries for mortgage:

• 45-Day Safe Harbor Period: FICO considers all student loan, auto loan, and mortgage inquiries as one hard inquiry, as long as they occur within a 45-day window. Older versions of FICO scoring models (which some lenders still use) feature a 14-day window instead.

Since I am doing all the applications within a one week period, they will all be considered as one inquiry.

I do not think that I can get accurate quotes without submitting an application.

Good luck, lars, I think you're on the right track.

Lars, I know a good broker in Manhattan Beach, if you want the info. He has helped me twice; I have some unusual conditions.

Thanks, Sealavender. Please message me that information. I tried to contact a broker in El Segundo but never heard back from him. Manhattan Beach is close enough to Westchester.

I think the agent in Utah does not want to work with me, for some reason. I think it is because I told him that I would not be doing any applications on my phone. He did send me a link to the website where I was able to start an application, but he has not been helpful, once I started that.

I have the information on my computer for making a loan application, but it is not easily accessible on my phone. I could access it through Dropbox, but I find that rather awkward to do on my phone. It is much easier for me to upload files from my computer than from my phone.

"I think the agent in Utah does not want to work with me, for some reason"

What you're asking for may require a California license and perhaps this person or his company doesn't have that.

Elmer is probably right. Lars, a PM is headed your way.

Thanks! The agent in Utah is licensed in California and several other adjacent states.

Thanks for the PM. That looks like a good reference, and it is very close to where I live. I really do prefer meeting with agents in person, as I have a lot of problems with submitting mortgage applications and generally have way too many questions regarding how to fill them out. I need all the help I can get when doing this.

One of the problems with Rocket/Quicken loans it that their offices are in Central Time Zone and therefore are unavailable after 3 pm Pacific Time. I don't want to talk to anyone before 10 am Pacific Time, and so this limits me somewhat, but I am always happy to meet with someone in person.

It might be somewhat cheaper to do everything on line, but I do not think that this option works well for me. I can accomplish way more by meeting with someone in person in a short time than I can going back and forth via emails. Of course if someone condescends to talk with me on the phone, then that can be efficient, but so far no one has, other than the agents in Los Angeles and the one in Utah, who only spoke with me once.

There is a good chance that we will end up using Kevin's credit union, as they are the most responsive and have also given us the best interest rates so far.

lars, the Rocket/Quicken guy I was working with was at their HQ in/near Detroit, which is in the Eastern time zone (3 hours ahead of CA). He worked insane hours. At the start, he asked me how late he could call me, I said until 9pm. There were several occasions he called me around then, and he normally rarely called me before early afternoon. He said he tried to schedule client calls from East to West geographically during the day, and that he would work on his West Coast business timely but after handling calls to the east.

His responsiveness was unlike anything I've recently experienced, maybe he was an exception and that was why my friend referred me to him.

That's possible, but we are definitely having trouble communicating with our Rocket/Quicken agent, and he/she told us that they will not be available for phone conversations at this time, due to high volume, and that we must communicate via email instead. I say "he/she" because our agent's name is Danielle, but I thought this was a man (from the sound of the voice), but Kevin thinks it is a woman after hearing the voice. This is mostly irrelevant, of course, but I would like to use the correct pronoun.

The main problem with Rocket is that when I log in to my account, it says that I must speak with an agent, but the agent has already informed us that he/she is not available. This is rather off-putting, and I have been able to speak with the First Entertainment Credit Union agent and also with the agent in Utah, who just called me this morning. He did inform me that tomorrow is a holiday in Utah but did not say which one, although I think it is Pioneer Day. Anyway, he told me that everything in Utah is closed for this holiday.

At this time we have quotes for rates from both FECU and the agent in Utah, and the credit union rates and costs are lower. I'm really not sure that I need to do any more shopping around at this point, since everyone seems to be swamped right now.

I asked the FECU agent if we could meet with her, and she told me that no one is having meetings at this time and that we will have to do our meetings over the phone. I am okay with this and will be speaking with her tomorrow afternoon.

I think that this is a special time because of the rates being so low, and so many people are refinancing right now. In a quieter time, things might be different.

I've found shopping for a mortgage to be an online/phone transaction.

We found shopping for a mortgage and "in person" transaction, but that was before the pandemic.

When I was looking for what ultimately became a second home purchase, I decided to get ready by prequalifying for a loan. A national bank active in the mortgage market had the best rate available at the time as per my online and phone investigation (as C Martin described) and also conveniently had its local mortgage staff in an office about 15 minutes from the area where we were looking.

I called to start the wheels rolling, submitted a large volume of documents electronically. The loan officer (from right up the road) called me to confirm they had what they need and would start putting together their internal "package". I asked if they wanted me to come in? "No" was the reply, not necessary. I had a number of phone conversation with the loan buy up to their granting me pre-approval, plus through the ultimate purchase and close. I asked a few more times when a hiccup or two came up "Would it help if I came in?" "No" was always the answer. The icing on the cake was the escrow process, using an escrow company chosen by the seller's agent. As the date of close approached, I called them and asked when I should come in. "No need to come in, you can E-sign all the docs".

Well, GREAT. Other than my agent, the seller's agent, and the sellers, I had no in-person contact with any of the others involved. Not even an escrow agent. This was three years ago in a coastal SoCal location

If you re-fi, you will be paying another 15 years of interest. And, why would you take a cash out? Talk about being back is square one. Stick with what you've got, unless you can find a fixed lower interest rate...and I mean much lower, and add one principal only payment in the total amount of your monthly and you will be free of the mortgage in 7 years.

"why would you take a cash out?"

Easy question to answer. Why? To use the money that's yours but not otherwise accessible to do other things. To remodel, to buy other investments, to do whatever, why have it hung up doing nothing for you?

When you own a property, however much it appreciates is yours when you sell it, the amount is the same with or without a mortgage. It's foolish to leave money sitting there when it has other uses. If you get a greater rate of return on money taken out than the interest cost to access it, something that's quite easy at today's low rates, your wealth will increase by far more than if it were needlessly left as equity in the house.

Paying off a mortgage is an emotional matter, one which from a financial perspective is a poor decision. People do as they prefer.

We have a lot of equity in the house in L.A., partly because it is now worth more than twice what we paid for it in 2009. We already have over a million in equity on it, and we need some of the money now for medical expenses. We plan to sell the house in L.A. in 2031, and we can then live in our house in Cathedral City, which is pretty much paid for.

If we continued as we are and paid off our 15 year mortgage in L.A. by 2030, we would have no more mortgage to pay, but in the meantime, we would be paying $2800 a month on the mortgage on that house. If we reduce that payment to $1300 a month (which is what we expect at this time), we will have $1500 a month extra now, instead of 10 years from now. We do not need to build any more equity than what we already have now, but we do need cash now, and this is our motivation.

We don't need to be free from mortgage seven years from now, especially since we will be selling this house in 2031. Yes, we would have a huge amount of money then, but it would be much more than we need.

Neither of us have children, and so we do not need to leave a huge amount of money or property when we die.

When we bought our Long Island house in 1989, the interest rates were sky high, so we refinanced many times, each time reducing it by ~2%. After 2 or 3 times, we ended up with our local credit union. Finally, 8 years ago, we decided to get our "forever" home, initially as a vacation home. We refinanced our LI house to the hilt, getting a 2.25%, 10 year mortgage and had the cash to buy the new house. We finally sold the LI house last month, with only 1 year left on its mortgage so now are free and clear. My point is that we made several refis with the same CU, which was quite smooth.

Just in case we need additional cash now (we don't), I contacted our local commercial bank and found that we can get a home equity loan on our current home for 2.99%, no closing costs. Of course, that's now, not the future....

Something to keep in mind when doing a refi with cash out - depending on what the cash out money is spent on, interest paid on that portion, the cash out increment, of the new mortgage balance may not be tax deductible.