Pipeline hacked...shortages yet?

2 years ago

Just wondering if anyone here in the SE is seeing gas stations run out of fuel yet. In the NE, I've not seen it yet, though prices keep going up.

The news is claiming that even some airlines are now being impacted, having to reroute flights to where they can get fuel.

Scary stuff.

Featured Answer

krystalmoon2009

2 years ago

My husband is a fuel truck driver for 47 years and we have lived a comfortable life, rolling in money, no but we have always had food, a nice place to live and able to afford vacations. We have a house with a pool and hot tub so not sure about the above comment about less money. Rookie truck drivers are becoming just like the rest of the "woe is me" population, they don't want to work hard to have anything. Husband ran 4 loads of fuel yesterday and yes had to do a little hunting as to what terminal had what, but this happens all of the time due to pricing. The pipeline is now running manually as it did for years before automation, people create their own problems by panicking.

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Comments (63)

woodrose
2 years ago
I heard is it's panic buying that's causing the shortages, not lack of fuel. I hope that's true.
Kathsgrdn
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Someone in my town posted on Facebook last night that Walmart was totally out of gas because of the panic buying. I decided to get gas at 1:00 am last night when I got off from work to avoid long lines or gas being gone. I filled up at a Shell near where I work that is open 24 hours.

There was a news report also that one station is limiting everyone to $30 of gas and you have to go inside to prepay. I don't blame them, if people are going to act stupid...
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Can gentically engineered foods help feed the hungry? Are anti-GMO activists and over-zealous environmentalists standing in the way of the hungry being fed? The hope that GMO foods might bring solutions to malnutrition and world hunger was never more dramatically illustrated than when Time magazine ran a cover story titled "Grains of Hope." The article joyfully announced the development of a genetically engineered "golden rice." This new strain of GM rice has genes from viruses and daffodils spliced into its genetic instructions. The result is a form of rice that is a golden-yellow color (much like daffodil flowers), and that produces beta-carotene, which the human body normally converts into Vitamin A. Nearly a million children die every year because they are weakened by Vitamin A deficiencies and an additional 350,000 go blind. Golden rice, said Time, will be a godsend for the half of humanity that depends on rice for its major staple. Merely eating this rice could prevent blindness and death. The development of golden rice was, it seemed, compelling and inspiring evidence that GM crops are the answer to malnutrition and hunger. Time quoted former U.S. President Jimmy Carter: "Responsible biotechnology is not the enemy, starvation is." Shortly after the Time cover story, Monsanto and other biotechnology companies launched a $50 million marketing campaign, including $32 million in TV and print advertising. The ads, complete with soft focus fields and smiling children, said that "biotech foods could help end world hunger." Other ad campaigns have followed. One Monsanto ad tells the public: "Biotechnology is one of tomorrow's tools in our hands today. Slowing its acceptance is a luxury our hungry world cannot afford." Within a few months, the biotech industry had spent far more on these ads than it had on developing golden rice. Their purpose? "Unless I'm missing something," wrote Michael Pollan in The New York Times Magazine, "the aim of this audacious new advertising campaign is to impale people like me -- well-off first-worlders dubious about genetically engineered food -- on the horns of a moral dilemma ... If we don't get over our queasiness about eating genetically modified food, kids in the third world will go blind." The implication of the ads is that lifesaving food is being held hostage by anti-science activists. In the years since Time proclaimed the promises of golden rice, however, we've learned a few things. For one thing, we've learned that golden rice will not grow in the kinds of soil that it must to be of value to the world's hungry. To grow properly, it requires heavy use of fertilizers and pesticides -- expensive inputs unaffordable to the very people that the variety is supposed to help. And we've also learned that golden rice requires large amounts of water -- water that might not be available in precisely those areas where Vitamin A deficiency is a problem, and where farmers cannot afford costly irrigation projects. And one more thing -- it turns out that golden rice doesn't work, even in theory. Malnourished people are not able to absorb Vitamin A in this form. And even if they could, they'd have to eat an awful lot of the stuff. An 11-year-old boy would have to eat 27 bowls of golden rice a day in order to satisfy his minimum requirement for the vitamin. I'm sure that given enough time and enough money, some viable genetically modified (GM) crops could be developed that contain more nutrients or have higher yields. But I'm not sure that even if that were to happen, it would actually benefit the world's poor. Monsanto and the other biotech companies aren't developing these seeds with the intention of giving them away. If people can't afford to buy GM seeds, or if they can't afford the fertilizers, pesticides and water the seeds require, they'll be left out. Poverty is at the root of the problem of hunger. As Peter Rosset, director of Food First, reminds us, "People do not have Vitamin A deficiency because rice contains too little Vitamin A, but because their diet has been reduced to rice and almost nothing else." And what, pray tell, has reduced these people to such poverty and their diets to such meager fare? In the words of the British writer George Monbiot: The world has a surplus of food, but still people go hungry. They go hungry because they cannot afford to buy it. They cannot afford to buy it because the sources of wealth and the means of production have been captured and in some cases monopolized by landowners and corporations. The purpose of the biotech industry is to capture and monopolize the sources of wealth and the means of production ... GM technology permits companies to ensure that everything we eat is owned by them. They can patent the seeds and the processes which give rise to them. They can make sure that crops can't be grown without their patented chemicals. They can prevent seeds from reproducing themselves. By buying up competing seed companies and closing them down, they can capture the food market, the biggest and most diverse market of all. No one in her right mind would welcome this, so the corporations must persuade us to focus on something else ... We are told that ... by refusing to eat GM products, we are threatening the developing world with starvation, an argument that is, shall we say, imaginative ... With rare exceptions, genetically engineered crops are being created not because they're productive or because they address real human needs, but because they're patentable. The biotech companies have invested billions of dollars because they sense in this technology the potential for enormous profit and the means to gain control over the world's food supply. Their goal is not to help subsistence farmers feed themselves. Their goal is maximum profit. While Monsanto would like us to believe they are seeking to alleviate world hunger, there is actually a very dark side to the company's efforts. For countless centuries farmers have fed humanity by saving the seed from one years crop to plant the following year. But Monsanto, the company that claims its motives are to help feed the hungry, has developed what it calls a "Technology Protection System" that renders seeds sterile. Commonly known as "terminator technology" and developed with taxpayer funding by the USDA and Delta & Pine Land Company (an affiliate of Monsanto), the process genetically alters seeds so that their offspring will be sterile for all time. If employed, this technology would ensure that farmers cannot save their own seeds, but would have to come back to Monsanto year after year to purchase new ones. Critics refer to these genetically engineered seeds as suicide seeds. "By peddling suicide seeds, the biotechnology multinationals will lock the world's poorest farmers into a new form of genetic serfdom," says Emma Must of the World Development Movement. "Currently 80 percent of crops in developing countries are grown using farm-saved seed. Being unable to save seeds from sterile crops could mean the difference between surviving and going under." To Monsanto and other GMO companies, the terminator and other seed sterilizing technologies are simply business ventures that are designed to enhance profits. In this case, there is not even the implication of benefit to consumers. I wish I could speak more highly of GM foods and their potential. But the technology is now held tightly in the hands of corporations whose motives are, I'm afraid, very different from what they would have us believe. Despite the PR, Monsanto's goal is not to make hunger history. It's to control the staple crops that feed the world. Will GMOs help end world hunger? I don't think so. John Robbins is the author of many bestsellers including "The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World," the classic "Diet For A New America" and "The New Good Life: Living Better Than Ever in an Age of Less." He is the recipient of the Rachel Carson Award, the Albert Schweitzer Humanitarian Award, the Peace Abbey's Courage of Conscience Award and Green America's Lifetime Achievement Award. To learn more about his work, visit www.johnrobbins.info This Blogger's Books from The New Good Life: Living Better Than Ever in an Age of Less by John Robbins Food Revolution, The: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World by John Robbins Many supporters of GMO seeds, are Monsanto supporters. Who is in charge of the USDA-Agricultural Research Service ? I believe it was Tom Vilsack,who is now a member of the cabnit our current Secretary.Who is Tom Vilsack?Google him and find out. Our Supreme Court Justice,Clarence Thomas,,,Used to Work for who> Monsanto.and several top positions in the Food and Drug Administration,and the Department of Agriculture,all filled with former Monsanto Lobbyist, do you really want to believe any thing these people say? 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OutsidePlaying
2 years ago
The news reported long lines at some stations here yesterday afternoon (Costco was one line shown), but I bought gas yesterday morning (I needed it) on the way into town. No problem and only one other car there. However GA, NC and a few other east coast states were reporting gas shortages. Mostly due to people panic buying. Things are supposed to resume production and be up and running again by Friday.

Hackers are gonna hack, especially lower-tech industries/businesses and those who provide a large-scale product (petroleum, electricity, power, etc) to our population. We generally don’t hear about it because things are stopped before getting to the point they did with the Colonial Pipeline.
maifleur03
2 years ago
Not certain how it would work but one news article this morning mentioned by passing the bottleneck by diverting gas from other places around the problem areas. Would not help some because the flow is computer directed which is what caused the initial problem.

I had planned on going to a plant nursery in Minnesota this morning until my mind said no. First thing I was going to do was to top off my tank last night. Something I try to do because traditionally gas has been much higher in Iowa and I wanted as much gas as possible in my tank. While the driver above may be taking precautions against a shortage there are other reasons that someone does not wait until their tank is empty before filling.

I am still subscribed to Beau of the Fifth Column although I seldom look at the videos. Yesterday one about the shortages caught my eye. It explains some of what the federal government is doing to lessen the problem. Link: Let's talk about pipeline and supply chain concerns.... - YouTube
summersrhythm_z6a
2 years ago
Krystalmoon, Just want to say thanks a ton for your DH's hard work!! :-)
nicole___
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
krystalmoon.....I like your take on things. Very logical. Thanks for speaking up.

No panic here in Colorado. No price hikes or lines.
bragu_DSM 5
2 years ago
gas prices almost always are higher on the interstate highways ... which is why the illusion of higher gas prices to the sojourner
maifleur03
2 years ago
bragu if that was directed toward me Iowa does have higher gas prices as do other states because the taxes are higher. Then there is the thing that most of my trip would be through small rural towns where the gas is often higher because of the transportation costs to fill the station's tanks. It all depends on where a person is traveling as to what costs they find. Sometimes interstates or major highways are cheaper than the gas station where the nearest station is twenty miles away. I wish Harvey's nursery was closer to a highway.
morz8 - Washington Coast
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I'm reading about the hack the last few days, but haven't noticed anything taking place here as far as lines or shortages on this coast. We do try to keep both vehicles full at all times to be prepared for any emergency with Mom. If you see one of us topping off a tank, it's for that same reason the last several years. Enough on hand to get there 135 miles is not good enough for me. If I've done something for her and I'm tired, I want to be able to drive home without stopping.

Gas in this state has been about $3.50. It hasn't changed that I've seen. 'Reservation' gas at stations owned by native americans is running about $3.29 and is typically where we fill up, station directly down the hill from us where DH will often top off both his truck and my car so I never have to think about it.
nickel_kg
2 years ago
maifleur, were you going to a peony nursery? I remember you've mentioned them in the past.
foggyj2
2 years ago
Here in Atlanta, several stations are closed. The station we went to this AM, limits the amount to $15.00 worth. The price was $2.95 a gallon. As usual, the media had a hand in causing panic.
maifleur03
2 years ago
Nickel I was going to Hidden Springs nursery just outside of Spring Grove Minnesota. Harvey and I have known each other about 20 years now. Earlier this year he did some cuttings from a blood orange. He saved me one although it was damaged when a problem with the greenhouse developed. I was to go up last weekend then I realized it was Mother's Day a major plant sales day. I decided last night to wait. Highway access is either I35 then cut across country or cut across Missouri to one of the highways along the Mississippi river then west on bluff roads. In the past I did the I35 and spent a night somewhere when returning via backroads. Not something I am comfortable doing this year. Link to his nursery: Peonies for your home garden from Hidden Springs Peony Farm (hiddenspringsflowerfarm.com)
bob_cville
2 years ago
Yesterday just about every gas station in Charlottesville was reportedly out of gas. Today at noon I drove past three, two were closed and out of gas, one had a 1/4 mile long line stretching down the street.

Of the 5 vehicles here, two are nearly empty. And all of the 5 gallon gas cans and most of the smaller ones for the equipment are empty. And I've got mowing to do.
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
Hey bob, take a few days off. Enjoy yourself, you can always work another day.
nickel_kg
2 years ago
thanks Maifleur his site looks exceptional -- really lovely plants. I wonder if I can convince DD she needs a peony border at her house (mine is full) ....

I hope you can make your expedition at some point soon. Shopping for plants beats shopping for just about any other item I can think of.
rob333 (zone 7b)
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I have a gigantic problem!

I took my child to the East Tennessee/North Carolina border, and they met friends so they could go camping on the coast of North Carolina. I have a full tank of gas and I can get all the way to pick them up, and most of the way back. I found enough containers and filled them so that I can make it all the way back (just enough for the trip). But they can't get to me at the border. They're almost out of gas, and cannot find a gas station to fill their tank. 😡

I live in Middle Tennessee, not even on the East Coast, and the below is what I saw today. Visited three other gas stations and they were all fine.

Our grocery store here had every item on the shelf that could possibly get on the shelves, you might wonder if they're worried about interruption to supply.
Kathsgrdn
2 years ago
Rob333, I'm pretty sure Tennessee is one of the states that is affected by the pipeline issue. I looked at the map, wondering if KY was and it goes completely around us, to I think, W. VA and VA and then south of us, including TN. Unfortunately it has affected other states because people are being irrational and hoarding.
schoolhouse_gwagain
2 years ago
bob, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw on the news tonight about lines at the gas stations and stations out of gas! My mower tank is 3/4 full and I still have some in the gas can, not a whole lot tho, plus I mowed all the property today. It won't need mowing for four days or so - I hope.

But then didn't I hear that the pipe line is opening back up?
rob333 (zone 7b)
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Did my best to only take exactly what I needed! Only to get my child home. Before they run out of money.

It's the hoarding people that really piss me off. They have enough to get around town till everything gets back to normal, but are filling up 5 gallon containers for no good reason. It's going to get back to normal quickly.

If they could just get enough gas to get home. Oy!
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
"It's the hoarding people that really piss me off."

You have every right to feel that way.

It's the same thing that was going on a year ago with other goods. I wonder how many of the selfish hoarders have yet to work down the excessive stocks they bought up of various things that made other people scramble and have to do without..
maifleur03
2 years ago
From several news sites the gas has started flowing again. Not certain how soon it will arrive in your areas morz and robb but things should be better tomorrow.
amylou321
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Krystalmoon my SO has been a truck driver for over 20 years. He has run jet fuel, gas, diesel,chemicals, molten sulphur and asphalt among other things. He is not a rookie. He is a owner operator and the loads are paying less. And less. And less. In my job I have met thousands of truck drivers over the years,both OO and company drivers and over the last few years many thay have been in the game for decades are leaving because of the money. No other reason. The money is not worth the work. And as I said, its a lot of work and long days.Thats where my comment came from.
schoolhouse_gwagain
2 years ago
So did we pay the ransom demand? Last I read we offered $100,000.
vgkg Z-7 Va
2 years ago
Heard this morning that the pipeline is slowly pumping again but will take a few/several days to get back to near normal, not sure if a ransom was paid? I recall back during the gas crisis of the 70's some states were restricting gas to cars via their odd/even license plate number and/or limiting gas purchases to 10 gallons max. This may be too short lived to implement limits like that, and some of today's plates are personalized with just letters.
marilyn_c
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I heard on the radio this morning that $5 million was paid in ransom. If that is true..... :(
bob_cville
2 years ago
"It's the hoarding people that really piss me off."

I'm worried I'll be perceived as one of those hoarding jerks. When I go to get gas for the farm, I will bring 5 five gallon cans and 2 or 3 two gallon ones. It certainly looks like hoarding, but during the mowing season, that is about a weeks worth of gas for the farm vehicles. Conversely for my car, since I work from home, and don't often go anywhere, I usually go a month or two between fill-ups.
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
We'll be demonstrating at your driveway entrance when you return from the gas station with those jerry cans.

That's a lot of gas to haul every week. What a drag.
carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b
2 years ago
People here in FL have been overbuying too - and we don't even get our gas from that pipeline! It comes in on ships. People can be so dumb.

And I think another issue is a lot of people don't pay any attention to news at all. I heard some clips yesterday of folks in line at gas stations and one said she was traveling from CA and had no idea what was going on, but had been to 10 stations looking for gas before they found some. Another lady said she saw people lining up and thought she'd better get in line too.

And yes, things should be back to normal in a few days and it's only affecting the South East USA.
schoolhouse_gwagain
2 years ago
Just got back from the local BP station (to buy ice cream - they carry Breyers), and no lines, no panic. Attendant inside says there was never any of that at this station. Also that the situation should return to normal by tomorrow. So he says.
morz8 - Washington Coast
2 years ago
Rob, how are the kids doing. I read that lines for gas in NC are slightly improved today Thursday. My niece is there, in Raleigh/Durham but I haven't talked to her.
rob333 (zone 7b)
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
morz, thanks for asking.

One of the four is back home. The other three didn't get gas today, but hope for it tomorrow, and anticipate leaving no later than Saturday. 🤞
rob333 (zone 7b)
2 years ago
UPDATE: they have gas. Now if I can just get the kiddo back here without incident, I'll be 110% relieved. I still have to get the four and half gallons into my tank in East Tennessee, and back to Middle Tennessee with the extra gallon unused, perfection.
bragu_DSM 5
2 years ago
suppose the gov't spotted the company five mil covertly, and then announced no masks as a diversion?
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
Translation please.
rob333 (zone 7b)
2 years ago
I agree with Elmer. What does that mean Bragu?
bob_cville
2 years ago
> That's a lot of gas to haul every week. What a drag.

It is. I've been looking into getting an above ground tank and pump for farm use. But new ones cost a couple thousand dollars.
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
bob, I hope you're able to buy untaxed gas for off-road use. You certainly would be able to with your own tank.
nickel_kg
2 years ago
^ or some cows? sheep? goats? all of which come with their own problems and expenses, of course!
raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
2 years ago
No shortages here, of course, but prices are starting to creep up (as they always do at this time of year, in advance of Memorial Day and the "summer driving season"). Should see a 25-45 cent jump (at least) pretty soon.
bob_cville
2 years ago
> bob, I hope you're able to buy untaxed gas for off-road use. You certainly would be able to with your own tank.

I haven't looked into that. If it is possible, that could produce savings equal to the cost of the new tank. I know it is possible to get "off-road" diesel, I don't know about that for gasoline. A friend's son runs one of the local petroleum companies, that seems a good person to ask.
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Do check with the person you mentioned. My experience with this was a few decades ago with fuel bought for the boat I owned at the time. Gas docks in marinas sold untaxed fuel (untaxed meaning with no road taxes added) and the rules may have changed since then. The fuel was for sure untaxed (a sign saying "For Offroad Use Only" was on the pumps) and if I remember correctly, the fuel was dyed red. I think the federal rules can be different from state rules.

And, I also remember seeing untaxed fuel pumps at industrial, truck stop type places back in early prehistoric days when diesel fuel was hard to find and the Mercedes diesel I drove required me to go such places. I didn't buy the untaxed fuel but there were a couple of pumps for it off to the side.
maifleur03
2 years ago
Bob I do not know/remember where you are located but if you have a farmer's COOP or Farmland Industries facility in your area check with them. You may have to become a member and it may not offset the taxes you pay. In some farming communities there may be a stand alone pump often by itself for farmers to use.
bob_cville
2 years ago
I return victorious! I took the 5 large gas cans with me, and went to a rural gas station that I had heard still had gas. The was only one other vehicle in line (as opposed to the 1/4 mile long lines I had seen elsewhere on previous days.) I managed to fill all the cans, and the truck (which was at 3/8ths full).

The station operator said many place in town were prohibiting filling gas cans at all.

I returned to the farm feeling like the cave man returning from the hunt, striding back into the cave, dragging a dinosaur to the feed the whole clan, receiving a roar of acclaim. Though in this case I didn't have a dinosaur, I have the distilled juices of many long dead, buried and decayed dinosaurs.
summersrhythm_z6a
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Glad to hear you got gas in TN! We always have 4 gas cans of ethanol free gas for lawn tractors, mowers and bikes, we have about 6+ aces to mow between the properties we own every week. Did you get ethanol free gas by any chance? Small engines don’t like ethanol though. We have no gas shortage here, but chlorine is sold out everywhere. Hopefully all the gas stations down south will be back to normal next week.
rob333 (zone 7b)
2 years ago
Home again, home again, jiggity jig!

Totally made it. Totally glad I took fuel with me. Didn't take theirs in their cities, and didn't worry about making it back. Pretty sure it was all back to normal, but didn't bother to find out.
joyfulguy
2 years ago
If farm-use gas is taxed at a lower rate in your area, bob, I surprised that you hadn't heard of it on the farmers' grapevine.

It has been here in Ontario, north across Lake Erie from Ohio, for at least a generation. When I was a farm kid replacing the hired man who'd gone to World War II, woe betide you if you were caught with purple (strictly farm-use) gas in your car on the highway.

ole joyfuelled ... joyful cause substantial contributions to church, charities and political meant low to no income tax, this year - larger than usual contributions to charities, as demand for their services have increased but fundraising opportunities much reduced due to covid
summersrhythm_z6a
2 years ago
Is farm-use gas ethanol free?
joyfulguy
2 years ago
Speaking of blockages of petroleum pipelines ... a pipeline that brings petroleum from the west to serve about half of the needs of Ontario and much of Quebec, as well as substantial areas of several U. S. states, which crosses the lake junction between Michigan and Huron at Mackinac was ordered shut down by the governor of Michigan as of last Wednesday, due to worries about a leakage causing major pollutants through several lakes.

The pipeline hasn't been shut down and the matter is now in litigation.

ole joyful ... who runs his car on gas and heats his house (to lower than usual temperatures) with furnace oil
Elmer J Fudd
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
"If farm-use gas is taxed at a lower rate in your area, bob, I surprised that you hadn't heard of it on the farmers' grapevine. It has been here in Ontario, north across Lake Erie from Ohio, for at least a generation."

In the US, the federal fuel tax is thought of as a road tax and so it doesn't apply to off road use such as for boats or commercial construction type vehicles. When taxed fuel is purchased, a refund can be obtained for exempt uses. However the mechanism works in Canada would be even more important since the taxes on fuel there are quite a bit higher than in the US.

Is it because of the higher amount of taxes that accounts for why gasoline seems to be more expensive in Canada than in much of the US? And also why Canadians historically would buy gas when crossing the border for other reasons ()including lower cost shopping)?

By the way, "furnace oil", heating oil, various other names in most places is the same substance as diesel fuel so presumably that's a similar off-road use not subject to road tax. That would be cheaper, although presumably subject to the higher than US rates of the Canadian equivalent of sales tax.

Pipeline hacked...shortages yet?

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