You're a time traveler--would you go to the past or the future?
sal 60 Hanzlik
2 years ago
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nicole___
2 years agovgkg Z-7 Va
2 years agoRelated Discussions
I know what you're going to say, BUT...
Comments (52)In fairness to the USDA's use of "unsafe," "untested," etc. interchangably: Given what we know about bacteria and other pathogenic organisms, I think it's reasonable to assume, by default, that it's not safe to eat wet, cut vegetables that have been left on a shelf at room temperature for months unless there's a darn good reason to believe it is. For many recipes and processes, I believe that we have that reason: someone credible (for this kind of thing, anyway) has done testing and concluded they're safe. That's good enough for me. That someone has been doing it for thirty years and isn't dead yet is not. "Crazy until proven safe" might be a good motto when it comes to canning recipes. We might consider it "proven" that a fruit or vegetable concoction with at least a certain viscosity and acidity processed for a certain amount of time is safe, which is why it's safe to improvise some with pickle recipes even if the USDA doesn't agree. But I don't think anyone has come up with one processing time that's adequate for anything you can think of to pack into a jar and yields edible results. To sumarize and reiterate Petro's response to the confusion about processing times and botulinum spores: You CANNOT kill them in a BWB. (Boiling can destroy the toxin they produce, which only does you any good after you open the jars and right before you eat the contents.) Commercial canners bring foods to 250 degrees for three minutes to kill them. And that means that the internal temperature of the food is actually at that temperature for that length of time, not that the ambient temperature was 250 degrees for three minutes. This means processing times must be based on each food's viscosity and other properties, which determine how long it takes to heat through. Foods with pH less than 4.6 need not be processed at such a high temperature because the acid inhibits botulinum growth and toxin production (it still doesn't kill it). BWB processing is still necessary to pasteurize the food, to kill molds and other bacteria and perhaps to help deactivate botulinum. So the questions we need to ask when deciding whether and how to can something at home are Is the pH low enough to inhibit botulin production? and How long does it take to heat through? Without these answers, the canning process is a crapshoot. If a recipe gives consistent results, the USDA can answer these questions for us. If not, and we want to can a recipe anyway, we must answer these questions ourselves and FOR EACH BATCH. I'm not aware of any way to determine that every point in a batch of jars reached a certain temperature for a certain length of time at home. I do believe we can reliably determine the pH of a batch: with a good pH meter, perhaps like those used by wine or vinegar makers. (For chunky foods like pickles or fruit, you can put one jar through the blender--as long as each jar has close to the same amount of solid and liquid--and measure the pH of the results.) But with thick foods like pumpkin butter, even if you confirm the pH batch by batch, I still am not sure how to know your BWB processing time is long enough for pasteurization. The argument that you or your mother or grandmother have been using a recipe for decades and no one's died yet is invalid. I bet that of all the cases of foodborne botulism reported to the CDC, not one involved someone who had--or whose mother or grandmother had--botulism before. The fact that botulism is extremely rare is a testament to the success of the USDA guidelines, certainly not a reason to start ignoring them. And keep in mind that while botulism may be pretty rare, so is home canning. Your risk is not the same as that of the general population. "In recent history (i.e., the past, say, 30 years) the average annual incidence of food-caused boutulism is amazingly low. Of those reported cases a minority are from home-canned foods (most are from restaurants and other food-service organizations). And among those that do come from home-canned foods there are mitigating factors---such as using the food in a mayonaise-based dish, which then sits out at room temperature or in the sun for several hours." Look at the CDC handbook link Petro provided. On average, there were 23 cases per year of foodborne botulism in the US from 1950 to 1996 (and the numbers are pretty consistent, so only considering more recent years doesn't paint a prettier picture). Most of those are from home-canned food: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/files/botulism.pdf. You can figure this out from that report by looking at the number of outbreaks (affecting 2 or more people) caused by home-canned food and the total number of cases (apparently including those from "outbreaks"). 289 outbreaks x 2 = 578 / 1087 = .53. So AT LEAST 53% of foodborne cases are caused by home-canned food. CDC and other sources will say that most of these were caused by "improper canning techniques," but I imagine that they are assuming that if a canning technique allowed the production of botulin, it was improper--how else would they know? Besides, these sources would classify any canning of pumpkin butter as "improper". I could not find any evidence that all or most of these cases involved "mitigating factors". Please provide your sources, gardenlad. My point is this: malonanddonna says "A recipe pressure canned for an adequate amount of time effectively destroys any spores that might be present." I totally agree with this statement. However, in the case of pumpkin butter, we have no way of knowing what amount of time is adequate....See MoreGoing to college for free (if you're the right age)
Comments (10)it NEVER to late to go back and reinvent yourself, well unless you're dead! several yrs ago, seems like many LOL, my dh decided to go back and get a different degree from puter science. he went into mechanical engineering, perfect for him, quit working in dec 2007, got his honors BS while working on a dual MS last Aug and has 4 classes now left on his MS and he is 40. i want to go back and try something new in biotech, when he is done. the way i look at it is, i expect to live to be atleast 80 in great health and another 10-20 yrs past that. i have worked all of my life to retire at 55 (i'm 43) but i can't see myself doing that now that is just over a decade away :-0 there is soooo much i still want to accomplish. i am also terrified of losing intelligence thru lack of use. each university runs the auditing programs differently. i used to teach for Indiana Univ and did not teach classses where anyone audited. i know Univ of Central FL (3rd largest univ in country) where my dh attends does not have many auditing classes (maybe at freshman level) and definitely not free, that's for sure. there are yr long waiting lists for many, many courses for full paying students, they would not allow a seat to be taken by auditing. BTW if you have not looked at textbook costs do that first if you plan on getting one. DH's textbooks ea semester cost more than the $4,500 tuition and he buys from asian printers and saves alot. ~ liz...See MoreYou know you're spending too much time on GW when...
Comments (88)"DD's theory is that due to the global financial crisis, fashion has come to a grinding halt. Nothing new. So the trend lag between here and Europe has collapsed and we're seeing the same stuff everywhere. This is from my 16 y.o. fashion analyst! :-)" Out of the mouths of babes... The Italians are over, this week, and are doing all they can to help the American economy. They came with huge lists from their family and friends. It's all Abercrombie & Fitch. That brand has taken Italy by storm, maybe the rest of Europe, too. They used to buy only Polo. I guess the lines at their stores go on forever and the prices are absurd. With the exchange rate...they're in heaven. We had a dinner last night and I forgot to ask what Italian brand was hot now. Last time it was Roberto Cavalli but his things are way too young for me. I'll stick with Armani if I'm still alive to see the dollar reign, once more....See MoreIf you're doing one thing at a time, what should be done 1st?
Comments (26)I don't like tiny knobs on big doors...so that bothers me, but the real issue is...if you have one knob it should be lower on the upper doors and higher on the lower doors (did that make sense? heh heh) But frankly, a 3" or more pull would look better, and I'd bet you could use the existing hole on many of those doors and drill one below it for the other hole. You can play with looks in advance and see what works. The green or yellow would look nice with both white and almond :) The green especially would help the almond blend easily. Now that I know they're not white...I'd be careful about painting in white. You'll immediately make the appliances look very bad by painting white on the cabinets surrounding them. Really...it would be a big mistake. For that fridge, you could take a sledge hammer to the back wall and poke that fridge back into the framing area by taking out a few 2x4's (if it's not a support wall). You can build a header around the space and push the fridge back, then maybe some trim and you'll be amazed how much better it looks. The cabinets I just removed from our remodel are the cabinets you have by the way. (VERY CLOSE anyhoo). The previous owner had changed to a corian type countertop and that did help with the look somewhat (but they were still orange oak LOL) and they didn't have any trouble holding up that counter :) I wouldn't put 3cm granite on them (because spending that type of money on counter tops when you need to do other things is silly) but I'd look to some of the prefab granite out there. We're getting a gold colored granite out of asia at $44 sq ft, with finished edges and a 4" backsplash, all installed, $44 sq ft for our new place (rental). I'll be putting that on top of some 1977 cabinets :) and they'll be just fine :)...See Morelucillle
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