You're a time traveler--would you go to the past or the future?
5 years ago
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I know what you're going to say, BUT...
Comments (52)In fairness to the USDA's use of "unsafe," "untested," etc. interchangably: Given what we know about bacteria and other pathogenic organisms, I think it's reasonable to assume, by default, that it's not safe to eat wet, cut vegetables that have been left on a shelf at room temperature for months unless there's a darn good reason to believe it is. For many recipes and processes, I believe that we have that reason: someone credible (for this kind of thing, anyway) has done testing and concluded they're safe. That's good enough for me. That someone has been doing it for thirty years and isn't dead yet is not. "Crazy until proven safe" might be a good motto when it comes to canning recipes. We might consider it "proven" that a fruit or vegetable concoction with at least a certain viscosity and acidity processed for a certain amount of time is safe, which is why it's safe to improvise some with pickle recipes even if the USDA doesn't agree. But I don't think anyone has come up with one processing time that's adequate for anything you can think of to pack into a jar and yields edible results. To sumarize and reiterate Petro's response to the confusion about processing times and botulinum spores: You CANNOT kill them in a BWB. (Boiling can destroy the toxin they produce, which only does you any good after you open the jars and right before you eat the contents.) Commercial canners bring foods to 250 degrees for three minutes to kill them. And that means that the internal temperature of the food is actually at that temperature for that length of time, not that the ambient temperature was 250 degrees for three minutes. This means processing times must be based on each food's viscosity and other properties, which determine how long it takes to heat through. Foods with pH less than 4.6 need not be processed at such a high temperature because the acid inhibits botulinum growth and toxin production (it still doesn't kill it). BWB processing is still necessary to pasteurize the food, to kill molds and other bacteria and perhaps to help deactivate botulinum. So the questions we need to ask when deciding whether and how to can something at home are Is the pH low enough to inhibit botulin production? and How long does it take to heat through? Without these answers, the canning process is a crapshoot. If a recipe gives consistent results, the USDA can answer these questions for us. If not, and we want to can a recipe anyway, we must answer these questions ourselves and FOR EACH BATCH. I'm not aware of any way to determine that every point in a batch of jars reached a certain temperature for a certain length of time at home. I do believe we can reliably determine the pH of a batch: with a good pH meter, perhaps like those used by wine or vinegar makers. (For chunky foods like pickles or fruit, you can put one jar through the blender--as long as each jar has close to the same amount of solid and liquid--and measure the pH of the results.) But with thick foods like pumpkin butter, even if you confirm the pH batch by batch, I still am not sure how to know your BWB processing time is long enough for pasteurization. The argument that you or your mother or grandmother have been using a recipe for decades and no one's died yet is invalid. I bet that of all the cases of foodborne botulism reported to the CDC, not one involved someone who had--or whose mother or grandmother had--botulism before. The fact that botulism is extremely rare is a testament to the success of the USDA guidelines, certainly not a reason to start ignoring them. And keep in mind that while botulism may be pretty rare, so is home canning. Your risk is not the same as that of the general population. "In recent history (i.e., the past, say, 30 years) the average annual incidence of food-caused boutulism is amazingly low. Of those reported cases a minority are from home-canned foods (most are from restaurants and other food-service organizations). And among those that do come from home-canned foods there are mitigating factors---such as using the food in a mayonaise-based dish, which then sits out at room temperature or in the sun for several hours." Look at the CDC handbook link Petro provided. On average, there were 23 cases per year of foodborne botulism in the US from 1950 to 1996 (and the numbers are pretty consistent, so only considering more recent years doesn't paint a prettier picture). Most of those are from home-canned food: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/files/botulism.pdf. You can figure this out from that report by looking at the number of outbreaks (affecting 2 or more people) caused by home-canned food and the total number of cases (apparently including those from "outbreaks"). 289 outbreaks x 2 = 578 / 1087 = .53. So AT LEAST 53% of foodborne cases are caused by home-canned food. CDC and other sources will say that most of these were caused by "improper canning techniques," but I imagine that they are assuming that if a canning technique allowed the production of botulin, it was improper--how else would they know? Besides, these sources would classify any canning of pumpkin butter as "improper". I could not find any evidence that all or most of these cases involved "mitigating factors". Please provide your sources, gardenlad. My point is this: malonanddonna says "A recipe pressure canned for an adequate amount of time effectively destroys any spores that might be present." I totally agree with this statement. However, in the case of pumpkin butter, we have no way of knowing what amount of time is adequate....See MoreYou're not going to believe this one!!!
Comments (15)Ok as far as the poison ivy ... I get rid of it every spring but as most of you know its a weed it comes back several times throughout the summer well I cut it back as far as I can but it comes back when it was green all summer she knew to stay away from it ... no clue if she is allergic or not none of the kids have ever had poison ivy ... so just in case they know what it is and should stay away from it. But in the fall poison ivy turns a beautiful red color ... deep dark red... but because I am not allergic to it I don't know if at the end of the season its just as contagious at the beginning not a horticulturist so no clue ... I recite the little ditties ... furry rope don't be a dope stay away, leaves of 3 be sure to flee .... but in the fall no clue how to keep them away... don't touch red or you'll be dead? no clue anyway... Now DSS yes they are the same thing as CPS in our state. Mom called DSS back in July because I wouldn't let her talk to her daughter on the phone and I prohibited SD's access to her mom via the phone ... long story ... after she had been on the phone with her mom for 4 hours I took the phone away and said you do not need to talk to you mother anymore till daddy gets home.... because she was reciting the court orders to me and demanding I tell her where they are so she could show me "she can talk to her mother anytime she wants" and she was also screaming at me about being hormonal and having anxiety all while on the phone with her mother so after hour FOUR I took the phone away and unplugged it. Because I told SD9 that she was angry and not having an anxiety attack "I disregarded her mental health issues" Hubby who was at work that day was alos charged with neglect because he wasn't here to comfort her in her time of "need" mom was also chagred with neglect because she failed to retrieve the child while she was suffering from an anxiety attack ... you see SD9 wanted her cousin to sleep over and when she was told NO she "began having anxiety" so mom picked her up 8 hours later the cousin slept over and SD9 came home the next day no problem and while snapping her neck at me said "Ha Ha I got my way!!!" I said what does that mean ... "Cousin got to sleep over anyway" so I ask was that anxiety or manipulation?? so because I said it was manipulation instead of anxiety I am "neglecting her mental health issues" Then in August Mom took SD9 and SS10 to file a police report against hubby because they feared coming back home (2 days before going to court) Because they were fighting over the x-box and he took it away and told them to go to their rooms they refused he carried SS10(who weighs 130lbs) and walked SD9 to her room. Mom told the officer they were afraid to come home because he picked them up and "threw" them in their rooms. But during DSS's investigation they found Mom to be neglectful and Hubby to be neglectful but I was not. So because DSS has charged both parents with neglect of SD9 not the 2 boys ... we are all involved and have to meet with DSS monthly to discuss any issues that arise. So our service plan states we cannot yell in the presence of the children. Among other piddly stuff like counseling for the kids and medical appts for the kids (Imagine DSS says I have to take the kids to Drs. Appts.) and family therapy sessions. Mom's service plan is no yelling as well drs appts, parenting classes, family therapy, and domestic violence classes, she can only call one time a day for 15 minutes, she is to let SD9 enjoy her time with her father and she is not to interfere with their visitation times. DSS meets with us monthly DSS meets with mom weekly Mom has a parent aide come into her home from 5-8pm every night we do not Mom has a parent aide come into her home on weekends from 1-4 pm we do not Mom has to have a psychiatric evaluation. We do not. We each have to meet monthly with the childrens counselors on an individual basis ... the children go to therapy every 2 weeks except SD she goes weekly more if needed... For atleast the next 6 months to a year we are all going to be spending alot of time with DSS and different counselors who also have to meet with each other to discuss a "family service plan" ... So 4 kids 3 adults = 7 counselors 2 DSS workers Multiple parent aides. Then another "team" of people to evaluate the whole situation. So all in all this should be a fun year.... they are suspecting mom has an underlying mental health issue herself and want to "help the family in the best interest of the children" ... Serenity ... I know this is going to sound stupid but SD9 has figured out if she says bad things about me and her dad her mom pays attention to her and the boys... she takes notes she has them sit down while she records them and has them tell the story of how they were mistreated at our home ... like when its 11:30PM and we don't let her talk on the phone with her mom, or when after they have been fighting all day and all around nasty to each they have to go to bed early, they have put their own clothes in their drawers, and how we make them take showers even though they just took one yesterday and how we don't let them go out and play til their homework is completed. Thats makes us horrible parents I am the evil SM because we have rules here .... we don't let them play games or be on the phone all night long we have a bedtime. She greets her children with "what did daddy/pseudo do you last night?" "did you get punished yesterday?" not hey kiddo how was your day? you know normal stuff. Junegemstar.... she didn't take the microwave but she took all the hannah montana and high school musical bedding we bought to her mom's house so she could have it there since "she doesn't live here anymore" also took most of her toys to mom's left stuff that she never plays with behind. Left 3 outifits and no shoes packed all that stuff up. I know some of you think I am nutz for staying but I am "hoping" someday someone will tell mom besides me and hubby she is off her rocker. Maybe after the parenting classess and family therapy sessions. Those should be some fun posts. SD9's counselor called me yesterday to set up a meeting with her ... she told mom she called me ... mom flipped out on her saying "since when do SM's have a say in how a child's therapy goes" and counselor told her "if you didn't want me to talk to her you shouldn't have signed the release" Meeting with her Monday....See MoreYou know you're spending too much time on GW when...
Comments (88)"DD's theory is that due to the global financial crisis, fashion has come to a grinding halt. Nothing new. So the trend lag between here and Europe has collapsed and we're seeing the same stuff everywhere. This is from my 16 y.o. fashion analyst! :-)" Out of the mouths of babes... The Italians are over, this week, and are doing all they can to help the American economy. They came with huge lists from their family and friends. It's all Abercrombie & Fitch. That brand has taken Italy by storm, maybe the rest of Europe, too. They used to buy only Polo. I guess the lines at their stores go on forever and the prices are absurd. With the exchange rate...they're in heaven. We had a dinner last night and I forgot to ask what Italian brand was hot now. Last time it was Roberto Cavalli but his things are way too young for me. I'll stick with Armani if I'm still alive to see the dollar reign, once more....See MoreThe Past, The Present and The Future (Ronnie's Last *Gift* to Me)
Comments (48)Brenda, You have touched me in so many ways with your story. It was just perfect when you said "I will know it when I see it" ...and there it was. it is beautiful, and I hope you can close your eyes and put your hand over the ring and rock in a chair and remember the best times that you and Ronnie had. Have your kids seen it yet? I really would love to hear what their reaction to it is, or maybe you would rather keep it to yourself and Ronnie, hmmmmm? What a wonderful story, you are one of a kind my friend. Trin...See More- 5 years ago
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