Thanks,Lukkiirish. I did look at the MaP report based on a link in an older thread. If I'm understanding it correctly, it tells me mostly what I know from the specs: in the Kohler line Class 6 and Class 5 toilets move more waste than the older Ingenium models or the dual flush models. What I can't judge from the specs is whether the differences in waste volume are noticeable or meaningful in real-world use. Not to get too scatalogical, but I certainly can't look in my toilet and judge what might be 600 grams or 1,000 grams of solid waste! (I also checked the MaP report for some Toto models which I liked stylistically, like the Pacifica, Vespin and Nexus, but for some reason none of them are listed. I don't know what that means.) I realize no one can tell me for certain what we'd be happy with, but I am interested in hearing people's satisfaction with these various toilets. If someone has a Cimarron Class 6 and also a Persuade or San Raphael, it would be interesting to know if you can't tell the difference in the flush, or conversely, if you feel the newer Class 5 or 6 models make all the difference in the world. Or, if anyone has experience with the any of the Class 5 models and also a Cimarron Class 6, is the newer Class 6 do a significantly better job washing down the bowl, or is it an indistinguishable difference? -- Eric P.S. Is there anything to read into the fact that Kohler introduced the Class 6 Cimarron a year (or more?) ago, but haven't yet moved any of their other Class 5 models to Class 6? If the changes in the Class 6 were driven by customer complaints about the bowl not being cleaned well enough in the Class 5 toilets, I would have thought they would have been moving quickly to transition more models to Class 6. Does this indicate the market is telling them that they still didn't get it "right" with the Class 6 Cimarron, and they're developing something else?

Honestly, both Aquia models are highly recommended. Pay careful attention to bowl/seat height. My Kohler is too tall, i thought everything was either "standard" or "comfort" height. Well, different companies define that differently. i whipped out the tape measure an i think id be ok with either Aquia, but you should check. All else being equal, I picked the less expensive one. Like most everything else, it's such a big improvement over what I have it doesn't have to be the absolute best to make me happy. Being skirted is a big win, I'll take that and keep the extra $ the one piece costs! (Btw, read on another thread about assigning your sons to clean the bathroom as part of their chores from early on, even if it's just a damp paper towel when young and you really clean after. Apparently they learn quick how to aim better!) This was posted last month, and while it sounds a bit rant-ish (in response to a contested post), I've read similar before and at this point it's enough to sway me. Plus EngineerChic and I had significant issues trying to install Kohler Bancroft suites in our bathrooms in terms of identifying/obtaining parts and confusing diagrams, which we discussed on here if you are interested. Quote from TL forum: "my issue with kohler is parts availability...and, while some people never have problems with their toilets, if you simply look at the trapway design, you'll see that on many of them, the outlet makes a sharp 90-degree turn at the flange and the toto designs make a much more gradual turning there. Depending on the size, shape, and hardness of the waste, things just go down the toto toilet's trapway faster and with fewer problems. Some never have a problem, others have problems on a regular basis with the kohler design. Things do not make 90-degree turns and maintain decent velocity unless done properly. I do not ever remember terry saying kohler had anywhere near that level of defects. I do remember him saying that toto has the lowest of the many brands he sells. The 20% figure i remember was about his breakage factor and the reason why he no longer ships toilets, and limits his delivery area. My last experience with kohler was on a special order. Each time the supplier called kohler, they said it would be shipped tomorrow. This went on for months. In a week or so when it didn't show up, they called again, and got the same story...it will be shipped tomorrow. Then, they sent the wrong thing. Then, once i got it, i was not particularly impressed...parts fit, paint, fit and finish. At that point, i didn't want to send it back and suffer the same, horrible customer service i got again. Since then (this is a shower door), the paint chips, the bearings are crappy and make noises, and even with the several holes, the system did not have a proper position to adjust the height in the track well. The holes in the glass were all rough. If you know anything about glass, you want a nice clean hole. It hasn't spontaneously shattered, but it should never have made it out of the factory, in my view. So much for quality control. I do like some of the designs, but from an installer's viewpoint, some of their stuff is horrible, and almost unreasonable. For example, they have some shower body sprays whose rough-in must be less than 1/16" accuracy to fit properly in the tile. Do you know how hard that is to do when trying to get multiple trades to communicate? This is the only company i know of that deems it reasonable to set such strict requirements. They design in a vacuum, and not for practical use. Then, if you search this forum, you'll find stories of kohler bending over backward to help people, then you'll find others where they say, sorry, you'll just have to replace the thing...we won't help you. So much for a decent, stable design and continued availability of replacement parts. Few places carry kohler replacement parts since their design changes so often, the inventory would be huge, with no expectation of ever recovering the investment. So, do you want to wait a week or more when you need a part? If you do, buy kohler. My personal opinion and experience." When is your project scheduled? Looking forward to seeing your progress! When I started posting here I swear A2gemini and I were going to have identical kitchens. But Cambria here is crazy expensive and many colors on backorder, so granite it is! What color icork? I'm still debating, I've over-analyzed to the point where I need to revisit some choices before I decide for sure. I'm tracking down a US Floors sample Tuesday, ironically the one I loved back at the start and decided was too dark so never pursued. Still love the Globus, but not sure now about the opacity of their stains since I am loving varied options now. Almost time to order!

Moccasinlanding, you are so sweet to have run around your house with your tank lid for me! You gave me an idea to do the same, as I realized I have both a Toto and an American Standard toilet elsewhere in the house. I am assuming that they would use the same white across models; of course that may not be the case, but I will take any data points I can in my obsessive bathroom frenzy. I lined up my tile, my vessel sink, and the two toilet tank lids. It turns out that the A.S. lid is a slightly creamier white than the Toto, but I think it is a better match for the sink and tile. The Toto is whiter than my other elements. So now I am back to thinking that the A.S. is the way to go. I do like the cleaner lines of the skirted Toto, but I'm not sure I like it $200 more, when this is a bath for a teenage boy. Plus I think that the skirting may make it look even whiter, since there will be more flat surfaces to reflect light. And it is not a one-piece. I think I'm reaching a decision here.... The next big thing I need to look at is seat size and "target" area. Have to say that toilet research has been enlightening, and has made me laugh a few times. Thanks so much for your help.

Barb, are you certain you need the round bowl? The difference in depth is only about 1.5" on two Toto models I just looked at. Will that space make enough of a difference that you have to give up the elongated bowl? You definitely limit your choices of available models going with a round bowl. Also, for a teenage son's bathroom, I'll just say that most men will greatly prefer the elongated bowl shape. Having had one rounded bowl toilet, it can feel a little, um, cramped when sitting to do your business. And with a teenager who may not be as, um, careful, well, you might like the elongated bowl better, too! Okay, 'nuff said about that! Good point, Mongo. A two piece toilet does come in two separate pieces, which makes it easier to carry around if you're doing this yourself. Also, I should note that if you're doing it yourself, some Toto toilets which come with what they call a Uni Fit rough-in are a bit more complicated to install than conventional toilet. If you have a tile floor, there's some drilling through the tile needed. If you're having a contractor do the work, then you don't need to worry about moving the one-piece (sorry, Mongo and other pros!) or the extra work with installation; if you're doing it yourself, then just be aware that there's a little more to it than a conventional toilet if you get one of the Toto's with their Uni Fit rough-in. -- Eric