Jan and Dave, You both use the term "complex." What does that mean? Is it the same as "balance", which after googling some more, I have learned is not too much sweet or acid, as in wine. Or does complexity add something else? By the way, I found a free glimpse of a paper indicating that high acid and high sugar together do in fact correlate with high flavor. I also learned that the acid content declines once the tomato ripens past "breaker" stage, whatever that is. Maybe that explains why I don't like tomatoes after they have been sitting out for more than a day or so, unless they were green when they started. It would seem that you need to eat a tomato once it is ripe, because left out it loses acid, and in the fridge it loses sugar! The black tomatoes came up when I googled "complex tomato flavor," along with a few others I can add to the list. I should search the forum with that term. Black Cherry for example. BTW, I am looking for early tomatoes, and also for varieties that will live through the hot summer and start bearing again in fall. We have a long spring and a long fall. Thanks so much for the recommendations and comments on my list!

Big Zebra, which is a green-when-ripe variety tends to taste quite like a kiwi fruit. I don't like them in salads or on sandwiches because they are so sweet, but to just eat out of hand they are yummy.

Straw: Good details on Pernetiana Roses. Here is a photo of Condesa de Sastago leaves.....

In my opinion, the pictures are MUCH nicer than the original, lkayetwv. If you already have some close to her color that you’re not crazy about, be forewarned. She’s the color of an artificial kids candy, you would HAVE to feel guilty about feeding your kids. If you like warm colors, and place her with the right neighbors, she could be great. I love Abraham Darby and peach/apricot roses, but she’s nowhere near that. She IS tall and narrow, that’s true. I was thinking of her as a darker, non fade version of Princess Charlene de Monaco. I love PCDM, and she sets the bar high. Her only fault is that she fades in the sun very quickly. Sweet Mademoiselle doesn’t, but I wish she would. Amazingly, Sweet Mademoiselle STILL looks fresh and pretty in my kitchen sink! I have Moonlight Romantica right next to my Sweet Mademoiselle. Moonlight Romantica is just starting to bloom more now, after being planted in February. My blooms have no trouble opening, but I’m in hot and dry, So CA. Sometimes MR’s blooms come single, and sometimes in a cluster. The ones in clusters are smaller, but still nice. The fragrance is good. This one may be slower to bloom, as it looks like it wants to climb. Cluster, side view