First thing I'll say is have him ditch all the framing and buy a prefab steel pocket door frame. Wood is not perfectly straight and expands/contracts with moisture. Yes, a 9-footer will be pricey ($300-$400?), and if it wasn't included (for some odd reason) then negotiate splitting the cost. There is room in the steel frame for wood blocking and strapping to mount things outside that are needed.

Second, there is confusion over "fire break." That really isn't a term outside of wildfires. There is "fire blocking," which means you have to prevent fire from going upwards in a cavity to another floor. Here that's what the standard top plate on the wall and filling any holes around pipes and cables does. There's also "draftstopping" which prevents smoke and flame from traveling horizontally on a floor, which doesn't apply here. There is also "noncombustible" material, which is what your drywall is and will be applied behind the stove. That is sufficient. The sheetmetal being used is doing nothing (even structurally), nor is it an approved material for any fire concerns.

I also question how leaving out 1/2" thick drywall is going to gain you anything significant for a refrigerator or cabinet (that was measured properly).

Thanks for your thoughts, 3onthetree. They are super helpful. He said with the cabinets next to/ nailed to the studs, the wood will not bow. He also called a county building inspector that he deals with regularly who said that nailing cabinets directly to studs is not a building code violation, and that interior wall drywall was just for finished spaces. If behind cabinetry, drywall is not required for code and would pass inspection. It's a finish thing, apparently. Which seemed funny to me, as I have had a study done with a whole wall of cabinetry and those guys finished with drywall, even though they knew it was going to get covered with cabinets.

Then he said he was not aware that Johnson made a 9' steel pocket door frame, but if I bought it, he would install it at my cost. And it would slow the job down because likely it would be special order, if it did exist. I just looked it up and it does exist. I'm sure it would be a special order and take time to come in. My cabinets are going to be installed in 2 weeks. I'm guessing he just didn't plan ahead and tried to make do.

There are cabinets on either side of the pocket door, and they have to line up with certain things. This is a new wall so it wasn't measured, just planned out, based on the contractor telling the cabinet guy that he would only need 5". Except now he built it at 5.5" stud to stud without drywall and the cabinet guy is already going to have to shave 1/2" off the back of his cabinets.

Millworkman, that's what I said! Then he said he could cover the whole thing with 24 gauge galvanized steel if that made me feel any better about missing the fire protection that drywall provides. (3onthetree, thanks for clearing up the fire break/ blocking terminology!).

Why is there a fire break requirement?

I guess maybe technically there isn't one. This all came up when he first refused to drywall behind the refrigerator because no one would see it, and someone had said it helps with fire safety (1 hour non-combustibility). I also asked our architect (who helped us with other projects; not this one because this was through the kitchen place), and he said drywall was standard building practice and that it also helps with fire safety. Because this wasn't standard building practice, our architect didn't think it would pass a building inspection if we were to get one (which we are not because we didn't do anything structurally, other than build this pocket door wall in a non-load bearing wall).

I do not think a fire rating can be achieved with a pocket door. I am wondering the same question Jeffery has. Something smells fishy.

Hanging cabinets on a pocket door pocket could cause problems.

They are floor to ceiling wall cabinets (for oven stack), so probably not as problematic as hanging wall cabinets? Ideally, he would have used a Johnson steel pocket door frame as 3onthetree suggested, but since he never ordered one, this is what he built to accommodate a 9' tall (really 104" because there's a crown) for the taller and thicker pocket door. I guess what I'm asking, would you accept this solution with the 2x6's and no drywall? Or should we take the hit on time/ costs and order the steel pocket door frame from Johnson (don't know how long it would take) because then we could drywall (and potentially have a frame that won't warp over time, like 3onthetree suggests). Or is drywall not a real concern for safety issues and the 2x6's would be just fine for strength (and maybe not warping)?

Hanging cabinets on a pocket door pocket could cause problems.

Just bowing the framing and pinching the pocket door. (But I'm sure the "contractor" will pluck some more imaginative remedies from out his sleeves or up his....)

Consider hanging cabinets from ceiling/floor joists above.

Some strange things with this contractor . . .

It's hard to find 10' milled studs that are perfectly straight; and they are standing faced, so I'd want the steel channels to resist bending; drywall is cheap $16 for 54"x12', so what does it save not putting it behind the ref; correct that drywall is just a wall finish on interior partitions, but it would be more labor-intensive measuring and leaving voids where cabinets are, having the chance of dropping things into the cavity, missing your backsplash marks, etc than just putting up the full sheet (but that's why joints and screws are left with just the 1st coat - sometimes - behind cabs).

It's your call on the pocket frame, you write the checks. I'd be watching this guy like a hawk on everything, because it seems he's nothing but excuses on things he knows nothing about.

My contractor gave me perfectly finished and painted walls, even if they were going to be covered by cabinets and appliances. Your contractor is lazy or clueless.

Worthy, the cabinets will be floor to ceiling on that wall (and on backside) as they are an oven stack (and pantry cabinets on backside) but the cabinet installers will still have to attach their cabinets to something, so i'm imagining the bowing and pinching you've pointed out is still a concern.

He does seem to be hanging the pocket door from the ceiling/ joist above - I think that's a 2x6 attached to the joist. I'm not sure about the cabinets though, but I could tell the cabinet maker to do that.

3onthetree, he did say the 10' milled studs were not straight, but that's because they have been exposed to cold/ heat in the garage and have contracted/ expanded as a result. He said he is "training" them to be straight with that piece of wood there holding the pocket door sides apart, as it is the correct width at the top and bottom, but too wide in the middle (that little piece of wood "training" the wood studs is nailed in from the sides, but he plans to take them out later, apparently after they learn to behave). You can probably see in the first picture I posted where he wrote in black marker "remove screws" for those nails/screws holding the "training" block.

Since the entire wall will be covered with floor to ceiling cabinets (oven stack), he says drywall completely unnecessary. So he's probably not concerned about cabinet voids or missing backsplash marks. But I'm pretty sure it's also because he didn't have space after using the 2x6 studs, and putting in 1/4" of space on each side of the 1.75" thick door. I guess we feel a little better knowing drywall might be just a cosmetic thing and not a safety thing.

There have been other weird things about him, which made us start watching his work a lot closer, like this pocket door. We're beginning to think he's just really cheap (except for his pricing). He says he will put in one thing, but then later, he says his "new" way is better. Like this pocket door.

We are so grateful for the expert Houzzers, as us homeowners have no idea when the contractor is giving us the run around, other than knowing something doesn't look quite right.

This work would be amusing if it weren't so sad.

Is the 9' high, 1.75" thick door a solid core door or a hollow core door? I would be concern about the door racking with that amount of height, and the studs becoming un-trained over time.

He charged you for an expensive 9ft pocket door and is giving you a temporary DIY job.

Mark, it's a primed, fir door from Rogue Valley (4 lights) with glass panels. It seems the steel studs from Johnson would have been more ideal, but he is insisting this will work. It seems like from all the comments here that it won't? Or at least, it will fail over time.

That's not even taking into account the drywall issue. I'm not sure if we should insist on that either. He says drywall on interior walls entirely covered by cabinets do not require drywall by code (we're in Maryland) or for safety reasons. We are not sure how to confirm that, but it seems strange given all our past projects had drywall behind cabinets.

Chispa, it sure feels like it! Or at least, an ad hoc job for not thinking this through earlier and ordering the Johnson pocket door frame.

We owe him a "progress" payment soon on Monday, which will include this door. I'm sure he will insist he built us a pocket door that works. If we can give him reasonable evidence that what he built was not up to code or not standard building practice, I think he would redo the pocket door (at our expense). Otherwise, he says he built something to code and standard building practice, and if we want to redo the pocket door, we will have to find someone else to do it. And we're not sure how to find someone who would be willing to frame the Johnson door for us as a separate stand alone job. Otherwise that might be a decent option, given we probably want him to do less, not more.

Joseph Corlett and cat_ky - even we can tell it's weird, and this is not our day job! But is it weird + it will work (functionally and safety wise), or is it weird + it won't work?

I am guessing it would have been better in the long run to make adjustments to the kitchen cabinets, even if it meant buying two new cabinets.

Hi Mark, thanks for your thought! That might be possible. These are custom cabinets, but obviously, the cabinet maker can make a new oven stack and pantry cabinet, but it would slow things down considerably. Do you mean keeping the framing he put up and adding drywall on top would be a good solution? And make new cabinets to fit the thicker dimension with the drywall?

I did find this Johnson door kit, which looks like it uses 2x4 studs and fits a 1.75" thick door, and would stay within 5.25" wall thickness. Would this be something that works (and insist he put in, at our cost, since he thinks he built something to code and standard building practice)?

It appears the Johnson product you show is constructed with metal studs which would have a tendency to retain its rigidity more than wood. It may be a good investment.

claims "interior walls entirely covered by cabinets do not require drywall by code (we're in Maryland) or for safety reasons."

Maryland has adopted IRC 2018, available free on-line.

Your contractor is, in effect, saying that the cabinets are the wall coverings.

Accept that.

And note that all wall coverings must, by Code, meet R302.9 of the Code, which requires interior finishings and coverings meet ASTM or UL723 test standards. Where is his documentation showing that??

I always love these "it's the Code" BS artists, who have never looked at one and figure you never will either.

I think my Johnson order is currently 6 weeks late. Installing anything against a pocket takes care to avoid long term issues. Expecting a fresh sideways turned stud to not warp is a better bet than the lottery but not good enough.

Contractor needs to know when to say "no."

Go to the big box today and look at an in-stock pocket door frame (80" high though). It is heavy gauge steel, and formed like a C or hat channel to resist bending. Much better than the wood framing he did. "Training" is laughable.

There's no code requirement that an interior partition have wall coverings. Unless he's been transported thru time from the 1940s where site-built cabs might get put up before plaster, there should be drywall behind cabs. I just don't get leaving the drywall out. That means your cabinets will be recessed 1/2", because there will need to be drywall beside the cabs. So is he planning on a Jbead or zip bead to finish the drywall cut butting against the cabinet? This is just a hack job.

If it were me, I'd insist on a steel pocket frame and fully covered walls.

Mark, I think you're right about the metal studs. We plan to be in the house for the long haul, so it would be worth it to us to not have problems later.

Worthy, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! It just didn't seem right to us, but we had nothing to back it up, other than "everyone else seems to put drywall up." We'll show him this, and hopefully he will at least be willing to take his framing down at his expense. And be willing to do the Johnson door frame (with drywall!). He did say the metal sheeting (turned out to be roof flashing) would be better than drywall for fire safety, which is why he put it in. When we pointed out the studs still were exposed, he said he could cover the whole thing with 24 gauge, galvanized steel, and that would be better than drywall. I just don't know why he can't do things the typical way - like a Johnson door frame and drywall, which actually fits within our 5.25" space constraint for wall thickness (a dimension he gave us months ago!).

You can use fire-rated drywall, but the door is still going to be the problem. It doesn't seal well enough and is not likely made of good enough stuff to have a rating.

Jeffrey, wow - 6 weeks! On their website, it says 7-10 days lead time before shipping, so there must be huge shipping delays. I'll have to think about that one. That's a long time to not be done, but maybe they can finish the rest of the kitchen, leaving the kitchen entrance open. And I won't have ovens for that time, but I would have the rest of my kitchen back, at least. I'll call Johnson on Monday to see what they say; it looks like we could order directly through them.

3onthetree, I looked at the Johnson pocket frame pictures online and I completely see the difference. Just the fact that it's steel sounds stronger already. I think he's leaving the drywall off because he originally told the cabinet maker he only needed 5" with drywall, so that's how the cabinet maker built the cabinets. Now he made it 5.25" (that's what's in the picture, without the drywall), claiming he needed to use 2x6 studs (instead of 2x4's with plywood in between as planned, because 10' high plywood apparently takes a long time to come in) for structural integrity. Adding 1 more inch of two drywall thicknesses to all of that throws off the cabinet guy's paneling, etc. Not sure what a Jbead or zip bead is, but the drywall will dead end into the pocket trim, as I understand it.

But it sounds maybe his original plan of 2x4's with plywood in between may not be as good as the steel Johnson frame anyway for durability, so maybe if I can get the timing of the steel frame to work, I'd get my drywall too. Otherwise, I suppose he might be willing to do what is originally planned, if he can get the 10' high plywood (which he says is very hard to get).

Here's a "pretty" view of the area, and then a close up view of the pocket door detail from the cabinet maker.

Front view (sorry, island hood kind of in the way)

View from the pantry (pantry cabinet door looks like wall paneling). You can see the side of the oven cabinet through the glass). Also, the panel trim flanking the pocket door opening is supposed to be flush (it looks proud like a jamb in the rendering; it wouldn't render correctly).

Here's the overhead technical view from the cabinet maker:

It looks like a hinged door would function well in your situation.

That probably would have made things easier! We had a hinged door there before, but it always felt like it was getting in the way or slammed against the cabinets (even with a door stopper, which we bought several varieties over the years). Most of the time we kept the door open, and only closed it for parties (since it opens to the pantry area and mudroom just beyond). Which is why we thought a pocket door would be a great solution here. It would create a "hallway" look to the pantry area with the option of closing it off every once in a while.

It looks like your builder took on a high end project that he doesn't have the ability to complete properly. It would make me worry about what else he has screwed up that you can't see. Can you fire him, pay for work completed and hire a better GC? I wouldn't want him touching what look like expensive cabinets.

It's starting to seem that way, although he insists he has done many high end jobs. I did check all his references, looked to see if anyone had sued him (none, although he had some kind of dumping violation citation) and whether he has a valid GC license (he does). His references were all positive, although with Covid, I didn't ask to go look at his work in their homes. Maybe their jobs were more straightforward. I did see the display he built at the kitchen place, which seemed well done, but that was probably very straightforward - just installing cabinets.

Our cabinets are on the expensive side (custom and rift cut white oak) but luckily, my cabinet maker insisted on installing his own cabinets. I am pretty sure that will be done well.

We did hire a master plumber over the weekend to take a look at his plumbing work and it checked out ok, although the plumber said it could have been done a bit more efficiently and neatly (some messy solder work). But nothing that impedes performance.

We've thought about parting ways, but in this market with lots of people building while staying home, it's hard to find someone with availability and who is willing to take on a kitchen renovation as opposed to an addition, etc. And we weren't really moving walls, other than adding this pocket door wall. The big part would be finding someone to put in this Johnson kit. It seems ideal because it looks like we can keep to the spacing for a regular 2x4 (and have drywall!). We would even stay within the 5.25" width given to the cabinet maker. I'm trying to figure out if we can finish the rest of the kitchen so I can get back to feeding 3 kids in a normal way. It seems possible to leave this corner undone. At least I'd have my fridge, sink, dishwasher and cooktop back. Just no ovens.

3onthetree, I think you're absolutely right. Steel and drywall seems like best practice; he just didn't remember to order the frame and tried to pass this solution off as better. When I brought up the Johnson kit to him, he said his method works the same because the floor to ceiling cabinets on both sides will help support his 2x6's and they won't bow after being screwed to the cabinets. He made it seem like that was common sense and how dare I question something so obvious like that. But we no longer trust everything he says, despite his "30 years of experience."

This is straight from an email I just received from him after emailing him the Johnson door kit spec sheet yesterday, showing him how we could maintain the space given to the cabinet maker and put drywall on:

"As far as the pocket door is concerned, I hand selected 2x6x10' studs for their straightness so I start with a straight piece of lumber. Because it was introduced into a different environment with potentially different humidity, etc., I was concerned that it wouldn't stay straight, so I placed a piece of the same type of wood centered to ensure its straightness. There is no right or wrong way for this type of work done, just different ways. I chose this way for the pocket wall to be strong, being it has cabinets installed on either side.

I spoke to a couple of colleagues of mine over the weekend that have many years experience on framing and general knowledge of residential construction, to get their opinion. One of them is a retired architect with 50 years experience in the field and the other a general contractor that has been remodeling homes for 45 years. They both agreed with how I designed the pocked door frame. Drywall will not be used on either side which is permitted by code and verified by Montgomery county inspector (XXXX). He has been an inspector in Montgomery county for 30 years."

(The inspector is someone he says he calls from time to time when he has questions).

There is a chance nothing will go wrong with the pocket door as designed and built. I for one, with only 44 years experience, am not betting on it. If you can get some type of warranty on the door pocket that will give you the proper piece of mind it would suffice. I have seen too many standard details go wrong, especially when they involve wood lately.

"Drywall will not be used on either side which is permitted by code and verified by Montgomery county inspector (XXXX). He has been an inspector in Montgomery county for 30 years."

Making the big assumption that's what they said, it's still incorrect as per the IRC 2018. Don't count on an inspector to know the Code they're supposedly enforcing. I've spent enough time interacting with them to know. In any case, it's likely not a particularly hazardous violation.

As for the homemade pocket framing, I'd rather take the opinion of a named and licensed architect.

There are multiple vendors that sell pocket door frames. Johnson has at least two versions (standard and heavy duty?), and there are a couple of German-made units that are built like tank (but also very expensive). I don't really understand why he would build a pocket door frame when you can just buy one off the shelf that will stay properly aligned.

The Johnson frames are made of U-shaped metal with a wooden insert that allows you to drive in drywall screws. You install a door header that is sized to cover the entire opening width (the door plus the cavity it slides into), so the vertical pieces in the frame kit do not support the header. All those vertical frame pieces do is provide somewhere to screw in the sheetrock. They are only about 1/2"-3/4" thick so that the wall itself can be a standard 3 1/2" thick before you install sheetrock.

If you are required to have a fire-rated wall assembly (like for a wall shared with a garage) it would usually have have 5/8" sheetrock on both sides of the studs, or 5/8" drywall on one side and fire-rated OSB on the other side (LP Flameblock, etc.). All of those steel panels he installed are not an approved design for a fire-rated wall and they would mean nothing to an inspector.

I know we have at least one architect on this forum, and he can verify that a fire-rated wall assembly is a very specific item and its usually spec'd by the architect when its needed. My architect even provided a list of acceptable products and what standard they complied with.

Bruce

Darn! I have to renew my license this year.

"f you can get some type of warranty on the door pocket that will give you the proper piece of mind it would suffice."

I concur with that but my only issue would be what if it needs to be redone? Do the cabinets have to come down? Will the entire wall need to be redone (bath & kitchen)? None of this nonsense would fly with me.

A warranty would be good, but I have a feeling with this guy, it would only be worth the paper it's written on - probably nothing. He's arguing with me now, and I have a feeling he'll ignore me later if it fails, especially when he's been paid. Millworkman, you have a good point, even if he was to honor the warranty - I will not want to pull out all those cabinets!! And that would probably be at my cost, as well.

Mark, I'm wondering if you think his solution is reasonable (maybe not the best) and he wasn't trying to slide one past us? The steel Johnson kit with drywall seems like best practice, and he's saying he's built something to code (no drywall necessary) and will work reasonably, so we have to pay him for this.

Worthy, that is an excellent point about whether his architect has a license. If he's retired, maybe he doesn't and hasn't kept up with building standards. I can at least maybe use that point to push the idea that a licensed architect would not think it is standard practice (or sufficient for code) not to drywall. Maybe Mark will disagree. I could propose that we talk to an independent third party architect together and see what he/ she says. It seems a safe bet that 99% will say that drywall is required and not having one is a code violation, but maybe I'm wrong about that. If he is required to drywall, at least he will have to take that down and rebuild, and if he has to do that, why not put in the better Johnson kit?

Another possibility is to call the electrical inspector, since our contractor did pull that permit (or rather, an electrician friend pulled it for him since he is not a licensed electrician). In our area, the electrical inspector is also the building inspector. I could call the inspector, point to that section of that code Worthy was kind enough to direct me to, send him a picture, and hopefully he will agree that drywall is required, even though he is not doing a building inspection. Or maybe send him a picture of the electrical wires hanging out the metal holes. I'm thinking that can't be to code - wouldn't the metal over time possibly cut into the wiring? The problem with inspections in our area is that they are all happening on FaceTime, so inspectors only see what the contractor shows them over the phone. I'm not even sure our contractor showed the inspector this wall.

Bruce, the wall is shared with our pantry, not garage, so technically I guess this wall doesn't require fire-rated assembly? There are ovens in front, though. And it seems that some sort of fire protection is required for interior walls, per the IRC code section Worthy pointed out? I'm not sure he installed a header - he screwed a stud to the ceiling onto the ceiling joists where the opening is, and hung the track on that. He cut into the sides of that piece of wood to attach the vertical studs. Could we keep his top stud attached to the ceiling and attach the Johnson system to that (getting rid of the vertical 2x6's)? Thanks for commenting on this post too (for others who aren't on the plumbing forum, we were a little concerned about his plumbing abilities when he moved our gas line).

So he's playing electrician as well as carpenter, pulling Romex wire through sheet metal.

And he's also moving gas lines! Here is the training and experience required to move gas lines in Maryland.

Oy vey!

Honestly with the hackery he is performing here with something as basic as a pocket door frame I would not take my eyes off any of his work. Every time you describe something he gets worse in my opinion.

If it were my project, I would suggest the builder apply his creativity to another project. With a nine foot tall door, that pocket wall would be at least ten inches thick and the framing would have been engineered lumber, or have a hinged door.

Having learned the hard way, if you feel you need to part ways with your GC, hire a lawyer first.

Thanks for all of these thoughts. Truly. After trying to look at his "completion" list and having knots in my stomach all night thinking about talking to him the next day, we had a very brief and tense discussion this morning. He said he would entertain the cost of doing the Johnson door kit, but his labor to install would be at my cost. I would also have to buy the kit and figure out how it would work in our situation, space wise. And I would still have to pay him for the framing he did.

I told him I would think about it, and then called Johnson to see which kit would work. Jeffrey R. Grenz is right, there is a 6 week lead time now. But that's not the worst part. The guy on the phone recommended using the 2000 series, and said for a 9' ceiling, the door can't be 104". The tallest it can be is 101.25". Their header and track combined is 6.75" tall. He said we'd have to cut 2.75" off the door, and the door company had originally said they don't recommend cutting more than 1.5" off the bottom of the door. I don't know if we can also cut 1.25" off the top to make up the difference. AND our crown is only 3.75". We would have needed 6.75" crown to make this work. I guess the cabinet guy could add trim below the crown at the door opening. Hopefully that won't look weird.

In any case, I had a call for work so couldn't ask questions about the taller 1500 series and if that header is also huge. I'll have to call back later to find out. Maybe we can just use their track system, attach it to the ceiling joist (which is what I think he has done) and put up the steel studs for rigidity, but it seems from what Bruce says, the structure is really in the header. I don't know what to do.

All of this could have been avoided if our contractor had given this any real thought before all of this started. And he had almost 2 months! He gave us a bunch of wrong information (how wide the wall would be, how tall the door should be). In fact, he had told me to order the door taller to be on the safe side, because he could always shave it down but not make it taller. Ugh.

It's so overwhelming when you're trying to figure out things in an area in which you have no knowledge, and your "expert" (ie. our contractor) is basically useless or absolves himself of any responsibility. Which is why we are so grateful for this tremendous community, or else we would be truly lost.

Install a hinged door.

Slashing the Gordian knot!

Or leave off the door altogether. We were in our current home a few years before I even noticed a pocket door stuck in a frame between the kitchen and family room. (That's how 99% of them end up anyway.)

As of the 2015 edition, the IRC doesn't require a fire-resistance rating for interior walls of a single family dwelling but I haven't looked at the 2018 edition.

The fire protection of a wall between a single-family dwelling and a garage is not a fire-rated assembly, its only 1/2" regular GWB or equivalent on the garage side of the wall although this is often amended by states.

The only other code requirement for an interior wall would be in Chapter 6 which is at least 2x3's at 24" o.c. with fire blocking of any concealed spaces.

Fire-rated assemblies are used between different uses and occupancies or when a dwelling is too close to the property line or another building on the site.

There is no use continuing talking about "fire," this pocket door has nothing to do with it. It should've been put to rest after reading the 2nd comment.

We used two Johnson pocket door kits, doors 8 ft high, in different areas of our remodel. They work great. Although like @worthy said, one door is pretty much permanently open, and the other is closed all the time.

go with a swinging door.....

Thanks @3onthetree

Fire rated assemblies require fire rated doors set in fire rated jambs which just aren't happening with pocket doors. Makes me question any talk of "checking with an inspector."

I recommend a smoke detector. It goes off every time I read the thread.