Kitchen renovation layout

3 years ago

We recently moved into a new house and are planning on renovating the kitchen (our cabinets are really bad). We are planning on taking a wall down between our kitchen and family room, so will be changing the overall layout of the room. I have a floorplan from a kitchen designer and wanted opinions before purchasing the cabinets. I have included the proposed floor plan as well as images of the existing kitchen and floor plan. We are removing the wall where the existing sink is and moving the door way into the dining room(next to existing fridge) to the left by roughly 3 feet.

My main priorities with a new kitchen are:

- Having separate clean up and cooking areas. We have 4 kids- 17, 14, 11, and 2, who are constantly getting dishes and snacks while I am trying to cook dinner. In our current layout they are behind me constantly at the fridge, sink, microwave. They also use this as an excuse not to unload the dishwasher-ever, since they have to reach over me to get to the cabinets.

- Everything off of the counters. I am trying to incorporate as many areas to tuck away the kitchen clutter, as it seems to just make a messy kitchen look messier. I plan on have pullouts for spices, oil, and utensils, a lift for kitchen aid in the island and storing our toaster oven and coffee pot in appliance garage near the range. We will also be putting a shelf (like in a desk) under the island overhang with outlets for kids cellphones/laptops to get tucked away.

- Large island for kids and entertaining. Our existing island is 2x4 which is awful. Within 15 minutes of everyone being home from school/work it is filled with clutter and everyone Is standing around it completely jamming up the kitchen.

My concern with the proposed layout is:

- Enough counter space (Not counting island). This Is mainly a concern for my partner. He is afraid that even though we added storage for most things, stuff will inevitably end up on the counters near the sink and stove and we won’t have enough space to actually cook and clean.

- Broken L vs L shape. I like the broken L for the purpose of keeping the clean up zone separate, but would keeping an L shape and just adding a pantry/coffee bar next to the dining room doorway be a better use of space.

Thank you so much for any help you might have!

Featured Answer

Kim Johnston
Original Author

3 years ago

@mama goose_gw zn6OH Cold Coffee is definitely my most microwaved item as well! That and leftovers for lunches. I do like the idea of the microwave being more easily accessible to the fridge side and will see about turning it in the island or putting up in a cabinet. I'm still not sure about the trash, as right now it seems like 95% of our trash/recycling is generated by the kids eating throughout the day (lots of frozen pizza boxes, popcorn wrappers, and soda cans) and I am trying to keep them out of the cook zone as much as possible, unless they are actually cooking! If I do end up relocating the microwave, I will definitely put the trash there so it can be accessed by both zones.

@Annette Federonis your kitchen looks beautiful! I really like the color and style of your cabinets. How big is your island? Also, how big is the space on either side of your range?

@biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley) Thanks for the advice! My DP would definitely agree with you about not having enough unbroken counter space. He has already told me he will cut off the bottom of the cabinets that run to the counters if he doesn't like them! But, he also isn't the one that does the cooking. I will definitely get a drawing with the appliance garage removed before making a final decision.

As for the aisles, I do prefer them to be more narrow on the range side, so it is easier to turn and prep, and I am typically the only one prepping and cooking. The rest of the aisles need to be roomier, as we have a lot of people in our house.

I am planning on squaring off the island, the KD curved it in the rendering. The reason we left the island a little smaller than the range run is to give more room for the chairs around the table. There will be a dining table centered in front of the three windows with a bench on the window side. We also have a door leading out to the patio, it is not the main set of patio doors (I would close it and make it a window), but DP uses it a lot in the summer when grilling. I wasn't sure if extending the island would make it too cramped at the table and in that doorway. I am not sure how much room is actually needed on that side for a table and chairs.

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Comments (21)

mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Kudos on planning a separate clean-up zone, and on putting the fridge on the perimeter. I'd like to see the fridge a little closer to the primary prep space but I don't think that's possible without crowding the clean-up or cooking zones. I'd skip the extra storage on the island, make the seating overhang at least 15", rectangular, so no one gets the awkward corners, and increase the aisles proportionately--especially with 4 kids milling around. (Maybe designate a drawer in the end cabinet for chargers and laptops. Could laptops be stored vertically in sheet pan-type storage?)

Advice is often not to put a sink and range back-to-back but my thoughts are that more prep is done to one side of a sink, so I don't mind seeing a sink centered on a range. Others might take exception to my opinion.

What is the blue cabinet to the right of the prep sink? Double trash/recycling? I'd put the trash there, so it can be shared by all zones. It could open toward the sink, for convenience.

Instead of ROTS, just make all the bases drawers and eliminate the extra step.

ETA, image:
Kim Johnston thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
Kim Johnston
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks for the input! The blue box next to the prep sink is the microwave drawer. That does seem like a good location for trash, but I’m not sure where we could then move the microwave. I was planning on putting a small trash/compost bin under the prep sink for using when cooking.

What do you suggest for pot storage? We currently use rollouts for our pots, pans and lids.
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A galley kitchen is actually a fairly efficient design. So what do you want this kitchen to do that it can't currently do? And if you expand into the dining area, where will you eat? I see that you appear to have a formal dining room that is not very convenient to the kitchen. And also that your front door appears to open directly into your casual eating area. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please). Are these issues that you are trying to address with a remodel? Or are you just trying to open the kitchen to the family room?
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First, I would reduce the width of the island, especially if it is moved out another six inches to provide a 48" work aisle. You need at least 36" of walkway on each side, between the back corners of the island and the walls framing the FR. Second, add a pull-out cabinet between the fridge and stub wall, to make sure the left side fridge door will open fully. Then, if you move the range toward the window, on the left you can add a glass front cabinet the same width as the window, and have symmetry. On the other side of the window, widen the uppers to the width of the fridge, and reduce the width of the tall cab. Center the island sink on the range, with both DWs to the left (as you face the island), where it will be easy to unload them to the perimeter cabinets. Put the trash pull-out to the right, in the primary prep space, with a MW drawer on the end near the fridge, since most MW'd items come from the fridge. MW could open to the side, to keep anyone using it out of the primary prep space. Many don't like a sink back-to-back with the range, but the most time is spent prepping to either side of a sink, and a 48" aisle is sufficient if two people are working at the same time. I'd omit the peninsula between the kitchen and breakfast nook, unless you feel you absolutely need it for serving or storage. The UC fridge can go in the corner, with coffee pot on counter above.
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HU-187528210
3 years ago
Where is that window in he rendering? I think maybe add a few more cabinets to the right of the window. Only because this is such a rich looking design that I feel like it needs more to balance it. Am I making any sense? Otherwise rlly pretty design. Do you need those garages. Like the cabinets until the countertops? I know you said that you want them to tuck everything away but to me it doesn’t belong. I rather put the things in those into a pantry or something.
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
We recently remodeled our kitchen.... it has somewhat of the same footprint as yours does. The pics are taken from the same places and they are our before and afters... I agree with mama goose about the sink, I really like that my sink and cooktop are back to back... there is another prep sink that is out of my “zone” so if they “kiddos” need a sink... our dishwasher is to the left of our main sink and the dining dishes and flatware are to the right of the cooktop... so the kids can set the table I don’t think you can see in the photos but we have all drawers along the wall with the cooktop. (That’s where the plates are...) our trash is located to the right of the sink, it’s also in a good place... My goal was to get everyone out of my cooking zone! To the left of the coffee station is our pantry... it looks small but it’s HUGE! On the end of our countertop with the cooktop, we installed an outlet and there is now a basket hanging there for charging... btw 39” between the stove and island is amazing! Good luck!
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Anything that can be stored in roll-outs can be stored in drawers, and there is less chance of smacking the ROTS corners into cabinet doors that might not be fully open. Do a search on 'pan storage in drawers', in this forum, but I'll link to some images below.

I would put the MW beside the fridge--either the drawer, or a less expensive model in an upper cabinet. Most MW'd items start at the fridge, and anyone using it would be out of the prep/cooking aisle. (But if you're like me, the most MW'd item is my cold coffee ;).

If you keep the MW on the island, it could be turned to open toward the fridge wall, which would also keep users out of the cooking aisle. I would put the main trash under the prep space on the island, with a smaller container under the clean-up sink, but we compost, too, so not a lot of trash generated at the clean-up sink.

Pan storage in drawers--images

Pan storage above fridge
biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley)
3 years ago
I agree that you don't have enough counter space, particularly unbroken counter space. I would lengthen the island so that it is the same length as the run of cabinets on the range wall (looks like you have 105" of stuff in a 120" space on the range wall). I also agree with Mamagoose that you should square off the corners. Adding a little length to the island would let you leave your micro drawer where it is and put an additional trash pull out on the other side of the island sink.

Personally, I would also eliminate that appliance garage on the range wall and make that a normal cabinet (the appliances you were planning to store there would be better off under the island or, in the case of the coffee pot, near a water source anyway). Center the range on that wall and then leave the sink in the island offset - that plus the extra few inches of length added to the island would give you a nice long workspace on one side of the island and lots of counter space on both sides of the range as well (you'd even have room for a 36" range if you wanted). Is the 39" aisle measured from the edge of the countertop or the edge of the range handles? Personally I don't mind narrow aisles but I am a solo cook. In your case with a large family, you might be better off with wider aisles. The extra storage under your island overhang is not going to be particularly fun to access so I would consider sacrificing that for wider aisles.
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
Things I would have done differently, our countertops are amazing, but because they are so flat you can see ever little speck.. And our sinks are very straight with crisp corners, they look great but getting the corners inside the sink clean is a challenge. What I love... the waterfall countertop is super durable and with multiple kids and dogs they are holding up great I also like that I can now see my front door from my kitchen the height of the wall keeps you from looking into the kitchen to much but it’s nice to see my front and back yard from my “command post” as my husband says. Also cleaning up is a breeze, with our zones it separates us from overlapping to much. Under our coffee zone is our bread and Tupperware drawers, that’s our lunch making station. Cooking is obvious... and setting up the table and clearing off is close to the dining room. Can’t wait to see your new kitchen!
biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley)
3 years ago
Ah, I see what you mean about the table by the windows. Makes sense to shorten the island a bit, then, although I think it's still going to be somewhat tight there, with only 7.5 feet between the end of the island and the far wall of windows. Is that your main/only dining area?
anj_p
3 years ago
How do you plan on using the open space to the other side? I would lengthen your island if you have room. I also agree with getting rid of the appliance garage - you're already tight with counter on one side of your range, so give yourself some space on the other.

Would you consider moving your fridge to the other side of the sink? Basically mirror that entire wall? That would make it accessible to you while cooking, so you won't have to cross paths with anyone AT the sink while you're cooking (I can still see conflicts with others due to the fridge location).

Regarding broken L - this works fine IMO as long as you keep traffic out of your cooking zone, which you do.
Kim Johnston
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley) We do have a dining room that we use whenever we need more space. We use the table in the kitchen for most meals where we aren't all eating together. We also use it when we need two dining tables. We have a large extended family and our home is typically the gathering spot. I have added a floor plan of the general layout of the 1st floor.

@anj_p We will be using that area for a table. We can't really flip the fridge because then it will block the doorway into the dining room. I also like having the dish storage near the dining room.
Ilove MyLife
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I did something similar to what Annette Federonis did.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
I understand about the teenagers and trash. :)

If you haven't read the following two planning resources, they contain info on aisle widths, seating space requirements, etc.

NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.
emilyam819
3 years ago
I’d hate those appliance garages. You wanted things off the counters, but you’d have cabinets on your counters! Not enough space.
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
I was looking at the builders rendition... is there a reason they are moving your entryway between the dining room and the kitchen?
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
I hope this kinda makes sense...
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
The designer has the dining room entry moved, I am assuming so there is more area for the island. However, it puts a very clear traffic plan right through the kitchen. Also the pantry seems to be in another room, it looks like your existing kitchen has plenty of storage space so that is probably working for you. In the sketch that I posted, move the dining room entry to the right if possible... that wall I would then do cabinetry around the fridge, to the right of the fridge would be dining ware and flatware, to the right a pocket door that looks like a regular cabinet, but when you open it you can walk into a nice pantry. The island can extend further toward the family room, there is a cased opening and it wont get congested there due to that being open. On the family room side of the island I would put in a drink fridge with a cabinet front so it is hidden. If you are doing a waterfall island, then put it to the left of the stove closest to the family room. One last thing, the cased opening from the family room shouldn't go all the way to the countertop, it should stop at least 6 inches before.
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
I hope this kinda makes sense...I just noticed that your entry way from the dining room is 7 feet wide, no need to move it, just make it smaller, then you would have space for your cabinetry.
Kim Johnston
Original Author
3 years ago
@Annette Federonis One of our first floor plans we had drawn up for the kitchen was similar to the one you drew. Unfortunately, I think having the stove and sink back to back would just be too tight for our family. We couldn't figure out a good way to get the stove and sink separated unless we moved the doorway.
Design Girl
3 years ago
IMO, the kitchen is off balance. I'd center the stove on the current wall and flank it with cabinets of the same size. Can you get a 36 inch range. With 4 kids I'd think you'd need it. I also would rather have the main sink and DW on the island, so I wasn't stuck in a windowless space while doing the dishes.
Annette Federonis
3 years ago
Good evening Kim, one thing I did before my kitchen reno was, what my husband called, “play house” in my kitchen. I would pretend to cook and prep meals and studied the flow of my family. I had my girls pretend to set the table while I was cooking... pretty sure they thought I was losing it. It helped allot in our final product. My original kitchen the doorway from the dining room was close to the stove and the stove was opposite of the sink... way across the room... WORST FLOOR PLAN EVER!!! Everyone would stand in the way where I was cooking to talk to me. With the sink and stove moved closer... still plenty of room... the traffic flow is out of my work space. Traffic flow is super important... all that being said... if I had done our kitchen when we first moved in it would have been different, 8 years later our family flow has changed. Can’t wait to see your new kitchen!