Personally, I try to get bareroot if possible because they are older plants and take off really well and look like a nice mature plant right away.

Thanks for all your insight it's been very helpful. I assumed the the bare root were better but the potted seems to sell out faster so I wasn't sure. Is it better, in general, to get own root or grafted DAs....I know there is a lot of talk about this and varying opinions on some other roses that I've read about on the form.

I think there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to choosing grafted vs. own root in mild weather areas. It depends on what you prefer. People in cooler zones or soil where a certain rootstock doesn’t perform well will have a different preference based on what does well in their area. Those in warmer areas or with certain nematodes in their soil will prefer certain grafted roses on a specific rootstock. Advice from those in your area will be the most useful. Here I prefer grafted david austin plants just because they seem to get going faster.

My own-root David Austins that were basically just rooted cuttings like noseometer mentioned are EXTREMELY slow and tiny compared to the grafted bare roots I ordered from them.

I am short on patience so I'm no longer interested in own root plants if there is a bare root alternative.

Noseo, you make some great points, but I'll still go with grafted roses every time. Some of mine are 16 years old and show no signs of fading away. The two own root roses I grow, Abe Darby and one of my Julia Child roses, are inferior to the grafted roses I grow. I have grown two grafted Julia Child roses since 2006, and I['ll put them up against any own root Julia. Own root Julia blooms less, has smaller far less lovely blooms, and is a smaller plant (in my garden). Abe is a little wimp--the less said the better. I do agree that Doc Huey can be a pest, not for overtaking the roses that are currently growing here, but when I remove a rose, the bits of doc often do come back (not always), but aren't hard to remove for me. Multiflora can come back some, too. Not much to put up with though, here. Diane

Diane, If I hadn’t been battling that Dr. Huey all those years, I might be planting grafted plants as well. You are right: in this climate, Abe is a big wimp! His roots can’t get him enough water. I’m giving up on those gorgeous roses with wimpy roots though. It’s taking me a while to find the ones that I like that have strong roots. I’m getting there. I think that if I lived somewhere more hospitable to roses it wouldn’t be so tough (like the Pacific Northwest?). And I do think Dr. Huey is beautiful in his bloom period. FWIW, Bishop’s Castle, Desdemona, Alnwick Castle, Winchester Cathedral and Evelyn are DA’s that do just fine on their own roots. More discussion on the Organic Rose forum. Hmm...maybe that’s the trick for getting my roses to look as good as yours! Maybe I SHOULD get grafted roses! Lol!

hmmm interesting, I am new to roses so I will just have to see which perform better over time. I have several own root boleros and then the following I'm not sure if they are own room or not (julia child, cloud 10, rosemary harness, and distant drums). I think one of the roses from a previous owners is dr. huey in my yard and I'm still having to cut it away every year.

Now, does anyone want to help me with the fun part?...trying to narrow my list down!

in my card from DA:
Bathsheba
Jude the Obscure
Desdemona
Claire Austin
Boscobel

and from Edmunds:
More bolero
Earth Angel
Moonlight in Paris
Eden
bliss grandiflora

As you can tell I prefer softer roses, whites, peaches, blushes

And if anyone knows of a place that has Evelyn in stock, please let me know (the name has huge sentimental value and it's always out)

You are too nice, Noseo. I think you are doing just fine and have the solution for your problems (except for Abe; what can we do with him?). I've had an Evelyn go own root years ago. I thought she was just one huge rose, and the landscapers had planted her (these idiots did this while I was sick) out on the slope in deer view. I decided to transplant her and began digging away on the slope, which was hard enough, but the anchor roots were awful. After a few hours, I realized there were two big roses there with the roots from hell. I think I had to continue to the next day, and the crater I excavated was incredible. There was a boulder down in the ground that E had grown around. At that point, I said the h!@# with it and tossed both E's, which I've regretted since. The only rose to approach the Evelyns in root size was the monster PAoK I dug out several years ago. I still don't know if she had gone own root, too. Diane

Hutchae84 Zone 8b/PNW - I love your choices. I'd be of no help in helping you to narrow your list down. I'd only help to expand your choices. I love that color scheme also. Yes, Bolero does well own-root, IME. Jude may do better grafted, as he did terribly own-root for me and I gave him away.

Diane - I'm regretting getting PAoK. I don't like her color, even if she grows and blooms well. Is/was your Jude grafted?

noseameter...you are more than welcome to expand my choices as well if case I'm missing a good one (or many) ;)

Noseo, Jude needs to be grafted, I think. He starts slowly enough even when grafted, but then finally takes off like lightening and grows large. He requires a lot of patience initially, I think.

Hutch, I'm glad you have Boscobel on your list. He is a real favorite of mine--a continuous bloomer with a nice growth habit. He gets bigger than most descriptions say. Mine is grafted on Dr Huey. His best friend and neighbor is Golden Celebration, another favorite of mine, too. I've posted this photo enough, but here is Boscobel. Another rose you might consider, which has been available in limited quantity from Palatine, is Augusta Luise. She is my very favorite rose. Diane

From your list I am currently growing Bathsheba, Earth Angel, and Eden in Seattle. Bathsheba and Earth Angel are in containers, though I hope to plant them out this spring, but I can say that Eden in very full sun in Seattle can get really, really large if you let it. Mine is own root and it took the plant several years before it bloomed really reliably -- though now it blooms pretty much all summer. In fact, I still have a few blooms on it right now. Bathsheba is gorgeous. I had Jude the Obscure, and that rose is one of the most wonderfully fragrant roses on the planet. Sadly, I dug it out because I have a very small space and it wasn't reblooming much for me (but that might have improved with time). If I had more space I would grow it again.

Diane-I just love the ruffles in the petals, so beautiful!

Thank you KS such great insight from a fellow Seattle gardener. So sounds like I should just order them all ☺️

That's Augusta Luise, Hutch. And thanks. Diane

Noseo, I just saw your beautiful Dee Lish photo on HMF. What do you think of this rose? I love the color and bloom structure. Does it bloom a lot and repeat well? Thanks. Diane

Hutch, one reason some people, especially in cold climates, prefer own root is that if the plant dies to the ground in winter, it can come back, true to the type, from the roots. The plant appears dead above ground, but byJune there will be new growth at the base of the plant. We, in cold zones, never toss a dead looking rose bush, but give it time to sprout new growth. When this happens, it usually comes back faster than it took to grow initially. That, to me, is the strongest argument for own roots. It would be nice if more vendors would offer them in larger sizes.

Ha! Yes, flowers has mentioned what may be the most important reason for most people to choose own-root roses over grafted.

Diane, Although Moses has described his Dee-lish as being 6 feet tall, mine is about 2-1/2 feet tall and not the most vigorous (but it's own-root, hah!). It does repeat, but I wouldn't say "a lot", although last year was not a good year because it was so hot, the bush was newly transplanted, and it was almost overrun by a volunteer squash plant (I was seeing if the squash would give the rose protection from too much sun/heat). The flowers tend to fry after a day or two when the temps are near 100, and with humidity in the single digits. I hope mine does not get as tall as Moses' since it's in the front. It might be better grafted since the plant seemed to do better in a pot, and repeated quite well when well watered in a pot. My biggest beef with Dee-lish is that it is definitely HT in bush form, and does not look at all like an English rose despite being a descendant of Graham Thomas.

Still, had a spring flush.

Hutch, there are so many roses in that color range that it may be hard to choose. I think you have a lovely list and were I to start over and come up with a list in your climate, my list would look very much the same. As you mention, Evelyn is worth getting (I have three). Sharifa Asma is spoken of highly by many people for beauty and fragrance. For me, it didn't want to rebloom and I tossed it before I really gave it a chance. I'm thinking of getting another, to try again, especially after looking at my old photos.

I would not want to be without Alnwick Castle. The color can vary from a lighter pink to a darker pink, and the flowers don't retain the globular form in summer heat. But I find the first flush and autumn flush to be incredibly beautiful, with saturated chalky pink cabbages. I wouldn't want to be without it because of the incredible wafting raspberry fragrance. You probably don't get high summer heat where you are. My friends don't pick up the same fragrance intensity as I do (I'm hyperosmic), but I can smell one open flower from 6 feet away.

If you like polyanthas, Marie Pavie is worth getting. This old rose has blush pink flowers and a musky wafting fragrance that I can smell from across the yard when in full bloom.

I've also previously spoken highly of 'Bishop's Castle' because of the vigor, but also fragrance that I can smell across the yard in full bloom. My friends without exception say that they can smell this one and love the fragrance, even the "fragrance challenged" ones.

Oh, and if I lived in PNW I’d want a Lady Hillingdon, which smells to me like cantaloupes. And maybe Sonia Rykiel. and...

Hutchae this is a great list. Earth Angel has been on my maybe list...I look forward to seeing how she does for you.

I am also in the PNW but southern Willamette Valley (land of the Oregon Ducks for sportsballers) so I think my garden may be a little warmer and sunnier than yours.

I just planted 2 qt pots of Desdemona, Claire Austin and Bathsheba this fall (bare roots weren't available at that time of year) so we'll see how they do. Im really excited for them, especially Bathsheba.

I bought Boscobel at a local nursery last May (a bare root potted in a 3 gallon pot?) And oh my I fell in love. I absolutely love the apricot tones in the center of each bloom and the fragrance is so complex and lovely...I just wish the fragrance were even stronger.

If you are looking to other Austin suggestions and if

you have room for another climber I also love Wollerton Old Hall. It was new in my garden this past summer too. Very romantic blooms that everyone kept thinking were peonies in the vase and lovely myrrh fragrance. Bloomed the longest this fall, too...straight through our early 20F nights.

Forgive the photo placement. Houzz kept putting it there! Here it is with Boscobel.

Here's a couple more of Wollerton. I think the DA photos don't do it justice

librarian-Wollerton is gorgeous, I can't believe I didn't notice it when I was first going thru the DA site. I love the shape of the petals and how it always appears ivory in some of your pictures.

So I confess I submitted both orders last night as a happy new years to me. Now I am wishing I ordered that instead of Claire Austin. I wonder if I can change my order. I am too the most excited for Bathsheba this summer too. She just looks gorgeous in the pics and I like she is rather small too, I plan on having it grow rambling over a picket fence.

Wollerton starts out light apricot and fades to cream/ivory. I really like the color variation. Sometimes it has very delicate pink edges when its the faded ivory color. It grew really quickly as a grafted rose this year, too, part of it is already over 6ft tall. I was impressed with the amount it bloomed this year with me planting it in early July! I have it on a large arch and it seems much easier to train as a climber than Crown Princess Margareta (which is floppy and shorter caned and just all over the place with not much quite long enough for its trellis). My Claire Austin was just planted as an own root in October so I dont have any observations yet.

It's worth a call or email to DA to see if you can add Wollerton or swap. I've heard good things about their customer service.

I guess I'll have to temper my expectations for the DAs i planted this fall since they were all own roots--it sounds like it will take them more than one year to settle in. Hopefully they're taking advantage of a PNW winter to grow a good root system!

Noseometer, I think my PA of Kent is getting pinker over time. I'm hoping my Boscobel does that too. I'm not fond of the coral either.

Sheila, you may have just saved my PAoK from the shovel.

I'm waffling between the two and I think if DA allows I will switch my order from Claire Austin to Wollerton. Unless anyone else has a comparison between the two? maybe I should start a new thread lol. i was planning on growing one behind two newly planted purple crape myrtle a, most like Claire Austin and then Eden between some limelights or on a fence between some Incrediball Hygrangea but now I'm wondering if I should swap the eden between the Crapes and get Wollerton for behind the Hygrangeas for more contrast. I do lean towards whites (as you can see from my orders) so there will be some variation in colors due to the different varieties. This will be this section of my gardens first year so I just want to get all the components right and I'm also a plant addict so the struggle is real.

You might want to smell Wollerton before you plant it if you like fragrance a lot -- I think it is among the DA roses with a myrrh fragrance and some people find that scent unpleasant. For me the DAs with that particular scent are hit or miss, but like cilantro some people LOVE it and some... not so much. Another non-DA white climber you might like is Sombreuil/Colonial White. Lol, look at me offering more suggestions of things you might like! Just what we all need, right? More roses. ;)

PS I haven't grown them but I'm under the impression from reading other people's comments that Wollerton is more vigorous than Claire.

The struggle is real! You're planning something beautiful Hutchae.

I only just planted Claire in the fall, so I don't know how vigorous she is. Wollerton is very vigorous and has done really well in just one summer in my yard. Even now, with regular frosts he is still growing (but slow).

Wollerton has a myrrh sent. The very first bloom reminded me of my grandmother"s talcum powder when I was a kid. I wasn't sure about it..it was kind of medicinal. But then, once I planted it in the ground, the scent became wonderful. Like a really nice incense (I guess that's the myrr) with hints of vanilla and depending on the time of day, citrus.

Gah the struggle is real! So I was looking on DA and Claire Austin is supposed to be a mryhh fragrance as well. This is going to sound so silly but I have no idea what the fragrance of myrhh is, I have even Googled it in the past and I can't place my finger on what it is. I haven't smelled a rose that smelled "bad" to me in the past so I am assuming it's a scent that doesn't bother me, although I don't want other people to be out off of it either. The spot won't be by any walkaways or patio though.

onto another thing, I looked again at both and Heirloom says Claire only gets 4ft?!? and Wollerton 8ft, while DA says 12ft for both. Any insight on this would be great, I assume it depends on climate? I definitely want a climber for that space as otherwise the Hygrangeas will completely cover it.

I guess I need to remind myself I'm not marrying this rose and it can always be replaced down the road if need be.

Hutchae my Wollerton is already nearly 8ft. As I understand it DAs in our Pacific coast states get at least as big as DA says. It would probably be a decent climber for you. I planted Crown Princess Margareta at the same time (July 2020) and she's only 4 ft tall. I didn't know if I'd like myrrh either but I loved the blossom form of W so I went with it. I'm glad I ended up liking the fragrance once the plant established. I've heard that it can take a few flushes and even more than a year or two for the fragrance to fully develop. I'm only a year into this so I don't have much experience to speak on.

You're right, if the plant doesn't work out you can always replace it.

Definitely sniff before you buy, IMHO. I, too, was impressed by the beauty of Wollerton Old Hall rose. I found it to smell almost exactly the same as Glamis Castle rose, that is to my nose, just like mothballs. I sampled flowers of different ages at different times of the day, and it was always the same. Now, I’m one who enjoys smelling stinky flowers for amusement purposes (I.e. carrion flower), but I had to get rid of Glamis Castle, which was just revolting. Some have described it as “dirty diapers“ but I’m not familiar with that smell. When I sniffed Glamis Castle at Heirloom Roses display garden (when it was open) it wasn’t bad. Even though the mothball smell was still there, it was a faint undertone, so climate may make a difference. Others have said it smells good to them. So I suggest sniffing first unless you are willing to risk it, and have the money to burn, or just know that fragrance doesn’t matter (i.e. you don’t have a good sniffer, and you don’t plan on cutting flowers and bringing them into the house). Don’t go by the “myrrh” description. Carding Mill is described as myrrh, just like WOH, but CM smells like Juicy Fruit gum to me. I was not able to sniff GC before I bought it on-line, (I figured that I had never smelled a rose whose fragrance I didn‘t like before) and it was a learning experience.

noseameter-I agree with you but I don't know anyone that grows Wollerton and I think it would cost me more to travel to a place to smell it then it is for me to order it. unless any of you folks have it and live in Seattle proper and want a visitor, let me know! Actually I would love to tour some beautiful gardens if anyone is my area so feel free to reach out.

So I could keep my order as is (with Claire Austin), substitute it out or just I guess remove that rose all together or replace it with another Desdomonda which isn't a bad idea.

That's the fun of gardening...it's an adventure! Whether you just get it and see, or if you go find it at a local rose garden to sniff, or sniff a plant at the local nursery, it's all fun. Soon you will be posting your opinion and experience on this forum for others to read. I'd love to see how your rose adventure goes.

You may be able to smell it at the Antique Rose Farm in Snohomish this spring. They usually have a good selection of DAs (not sure about those two specifically though).

You're welcome to travel to the southern Willamette Valley and smell mine come June.... but I think I'm like 6 hours from Seattle. You're probably better off finding another spot.

Thanks for the offer librarian! The next time I'm wine tasting in the area I will let you know ;) How lucky of you to live in such a beautiful area, I love it down there.

KS thanks for the tip, I actually went out there the end of the summer for the first time and came back with my first load of roses, such a fun trip. I went with my SIL (huge rose lover) and managed to fit 10 roses in my car! And while I wasn't specifically looking at those two roses at the time i didn't notice them for sale (definitely would remember those since I was specifically looking for white climbers and they only had 3). I looked in their own garden but don't remember seeing but I'll have to do a more detailed look next time I'm there.

So true, Noseometer! I heard back from DA today about shipping my order earlier so I am going to try and make a decision today. I am a plant addict and horrible indecisive and the two combined together is quite a conundrum. I think based on looks alone I am definitely leaning towards Wollerton. Besides the scent I do hesitant just because of the name is Claire and I was hoping to have a plant in my garden after each of my 3 kids (one named Clara). So I would get 1 more ticked off the box.

I can't wait till I am at the point to can start showing pictures of my own garden journey.

The only solution is clearly to get both roses! :)

K S I think your right! I need to just make sure I have the space for all of those climbers...Wollerton, Eden, Claire Austin, Bathsheba and Cloud 10 (which I planted this fall)

ok final decision, I'm going to stick with my original order. I can always order Wollerton next year but I think I need to be done with my rose orders for now so if I ever find the elusive Evelyn in stock, I have room for it. Unless of course, anyone has recommendations on a rose with the name Andrew in it, I may be persuaded to order 1 more.

Hutchae, if you have more children make sure you name them after roses

Eustacia might be kind of a weird name though

Too funny Kristine but not a bad idea! I actually considered Julia and Jude for my previous kids so apparently I was thinking ahead of the game! My middle child's birthday is June so her bday flower is a rose as well and she said her new years resolution was "to garden more with mommy" so she will be thrilled to have a rose in the garden named after her.

Hutchae - have you done a search on HelpMeFind? https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php

For Andrew, there is Julie Andrews (two versions), and St. Andrews and a variety of others.

For Clara, there are eight results, although finding the roses may be a challenge.

Thanks neosmeter, I did not even think of that function and have been relying in google, which usually brings up many other things besides roses. I even found two listed under my oldest name (which I wouldn't think she would have any) now I'll have to be sure to find them. Although i also want them to be "pretty" roses versus just any rose. Otherwise I'll look at other plants that possibly have there name in it.