I know what Dr. Fauci said but....
4 years ago
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- 4 years ago
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I know what you're going to say, BUT...
Comments (52)In fairness to the USDA's use of "unsafe," "untested," etc. interchangably: Given what we know about bacteria and other pathogenic organisms, I think it's reasonable to assume, by default, that it's not safe to eat wet, cut vegetables that have been left on a shelf at room temperature for months unless there's a darn good reason to believe it is. For many recipes and processes, I believe that we have that reason: someone credible (for this kind of thing, anyway) has done testing and concluded they're safe. That's good enough for me. That someone has been doing it for thirty years and isn't dead yet is not. "Crazy until proven safe" might be a good motto when it comes to canning recipes. We might consider it "proven" that a fruit or vegetable concoction with at least a certain viscosity and acidity processed for a certain amount of time is safe, which is why it's safe to improvise some with pickle recipes even if the USDA doesn't agree. But I don't think anyone has come up with one processing time that's adequate for anything you can think of to pack into a jar and yields edible results. To sumarize and reiterate Petro's response to the confusion about processing times and botulinum spores: You CANNOT kill them in a BWB. (Boiling can destroy the toxin they produce, which only does you any good after you open the jars and right before you eat the contents.) Commercial canners bring foods to 250 degrees for three minutes to kill them. And that means that the internal temperature of the food is actually at that temperature for that length of time, not that the ambient temperature was 250 degrees for three minutes. This means processing times must be based on each food's viscosity and other properties, which determine how long it takes to heat through. Foods with pH less than 4.6 need not be processed at such a high temperature because the acid inhibits botulinum growth and toxin production (it still doesn't kill it). BWB processing is still necessary to pasteurize the food, to kill molds and other bacteria and perhaps to help deactivate botulinum. So the questions we need to ask when deciding whether and how to can something at home are Is the pH low enough to inhibit botulin production? and How long does it take to heat through? Without these answers, the canning process is a crapshoot. If a recipe gives consistent results, the USDA can answer these questions for us. If not, and we want to can a recipe anyway, we must answer these questions ourselves and FOR EACH BATCH. I'm not aware of any way to determine that every point in a batch of jars reached a certain temperature for a certain length of time at home. I do believe we can reliably determine the pH of a batch: with a good pH meter, perhaps like those used by wine or vinegar makers. (For chunky foods like pickles or fruit, you can put one jar through the blender--as long as each jar has close to the same amount of solid and liquid--and measure the pH of the results.) But with thick foods like pumpkin butter, even if you confirm the pH batch by batch, I still am not sure how to know your BWB processing time is long enough for pasteurization. The argument that you or your mother or grandmother have been using a recipe for decades and no one's died yet is invalid. I bet that of all the cases of foodborne botulism reported to the CDC, not one involved someone who had--or whose mother or grandmother had--botulism before. The fact that botulism is extremely rare is a testament to the success of the USDA guidelines, certainly not a reason to start ignoring them. And keep in mind that while botulism may be pretty rare, so is home canning. Your risk is not the same as that of the general population. "In recent history (i.e., the past, say, 30 years) the average annual incidence of food-caused boutulism is amazingly low. Of those reported cases a minority are from home-canned foods (most are from restaurants and other food-service organizations). And among those that do come from home-canned foods there are mitigating factors---such as using the food in a mayonaise-based dish, which then sits out at room temperature or in the sun for several hours." Look at the CDC handbook link Petro provided. On average, there were 23 cases per year of foodborne botulism in the US from 1950 to 1996 (and the numbers are pretty consistent, so only considering more recent years doesn't paint a prettier picture). Most of those are from home-canned food: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/files/botulism.pdf. You can figure this out from that report by looking at the number of outbreaks (affecting 2 or more people) caused by home-canned food and the total number of cases (apparently including those from "outbreaks"). 289 outbreaks x 2 = 578 / 1087 = .53. So AT LEAST 53% of foodborne cases are caused by home-canned food. CDC and other sources will say that most of these were caused by "improper canning techniques," but I imagine that they are assuming that if a canning technique allowed the production of botulin, it was improper--how else would they know? Besides, these sources would classify any canning of pumpkin butter as "improper". I could not find any evidence that all or most of these cases involved "mitigating factors". Please provide your sources, gardenlad. My point is this: malonanddonna says "A recipe pressure canned for an adequate amount of time effectively destroys any spores that might be present." I totally agree with this statement. However, in the case of pumpkin butter, we have no way of knowing what amount of time is adequate....See MoreI know I should be able to get past this but...
Comments (48)Trail, the more and more I've thought about your situation, the more angry I became. It's not that you hand picked each book and saved them for your future grandkids, it's the fact that they have your own precious babies little handprints all over them, possible crayon marks and a lot of memories. Part of THEM is lost, KWIM? Even new books can't replace those. :( So keep on it! Kind of reminds me when my oldest son was 5. We were gone and someone broke into our shed. It was obvious they tried taking the riding tractor/mower but they couldn't get it out. As we looked around to see what was stolen I noticed my son's little Snoopy fishing pole was gone, along with our's. It broke my heart knowing some ADULT person stole this from a precious 5 year old!...See MoreI know I am being a fuddy-duddy, but.....
Comments (32)I really don't care what anyone wears, I care about their actions,not their clothes. Have to admit I have chuckle most at how women dress these days. Since when did high-lighting fat become a fashion trend? I was at a luncheon the other day where one lady (around my age -60)showed up wearing a stretchy glittery red sweater that showed every fat cell on her torso, a short pleated skirt that looked like a skating skirt from the 60's and black tights and ankle boots. Believe me she would have looked far better in torn jeans and a loose top that didn't show all. It was hard for me not to stare and I know this gal. Then there are the older fat women with cleavage and crepe like skin. But even though they look silly to me I don't care as long as they are good people. I remember back in the 90's DS had friends that wore nothing but surplus cargo pants. No matter where they went. Turned out several were extremely wealthy dot commers who hit the boom. The guy in the suit? He worked retail at barely above minimum wage. Don't judge a book by it's cover. The only clothing I am really bothered by are when mothers treat their little children like dress up dolls, dressing them up, fussing with their hair, painting their nails etc. I feel sorry for those kids. I am not talking about special occasions but the constant fussing. It especially annoys me to see little girls dressed in ways that don't allow them the freedom to run,play and climb. I find it very sad and I wonder what this generation of fussed over tutued little (at least the ones who won't have the sense to rebel later) will grow up to be....See MoreI know its too wet to rototill but, what if.............
Comments (7)We only got 1/2 inch from this week's drizzle and expect the well drained clay areas will be dry enough to till to 3 or 4 inches after 2 days of sun; though with more rain in forecast, who knows when the shady spots will be ready. You'll probably have to wait longer if you already have your amendments on top of the clay. Key point is that "damp" is different than "wet". We've been tilling parts of our blacklands prairie clay lot for the past several years. I use klem1's observation: if clay sticks badly to the tiller, it's "wet", otherwise it's just "damp". Another rule of thumb I've heard and seems right to me is that glazing when clay is turned with a shovel indicates it's still "wet". I defer to experts, but my impression is that the concerns about soil compaction from tilling wet clay largely come out of the repetitive tilling done in agriculture; so more a concern for someone who tills a vegetable garden or annual border once or twice a year, but less so for a one time pre-planting till. It's cumulative as a function of the soil exposed to the pressures on the working edges of the tines and under the wheels and feet. The more common issue we've had with single tills has been the crusting that can occur when disturbing the soil structure while wet. One countermeasure for both compaction and crusting is to add organics, which you are fortunately already doing anyway....See More- 4 years ago
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