It's in our little local nursing home now, patients and staff. Not surprised, am surprised it too so long based on the amount of people here not wearing masks.

maifleur....the 1st lonely woman is, 75. Well-off financially. She's lived an interesting life. She's a black belt in karate. Studied in Japan. Expert rock climber. She's travelled ALL over the world to scale famous "spots". She likes line dancing. Collects Native American pottery. Took a painting class. A sculpting class. I believe she won awards in both categories for her one piece she produced in each class. She taught paper cutting classes....before covid. She did join the decorating commitee....yet...contributed nothing. And...that project is over. I mentioned there was NO social distancing....and yes....she hugged everyone! ☺ Her husband died in 2017, leaving her debt free with a nice bank account, huge estate & military retirement income.

Molly....who's husband died of COPD, they were only married a year. They managed an Italian restaurant. He was born in Italy. She's always lived paycheck to paycheck.

The art teacher teaches for a Jr high school. Art isn't a class they're putting online. She's just out of a job.

Even though all-cause mortality due to COVID-19 may not be known for a while, two new studies highlight that 173,300 (79.5%) of excess deaths from March through August were COVID related, with 4,535 deaths occurring from March through July in younger adults ages 25 to 44, or 38% of all excess deaths in that group.

Data from the latter study helped inspire a New York Times editorial yesterday by the likely next director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and her colleagues, who tried to dispel the myth that the disease is not deadly in younger adults.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/12/data-reveal-deadliness-covid-19-even-young-adults

Sorry but it leaves scars when you know your actions have caused the death of another. Giving or receiving a hug increases the chance. Isn't the topic of this thread "Social Responsibility"? Not giving hugs should fall under that classifications.

maifleur...I agree. VERY irresponsible. I was responding to "your" comments.

I wanted to make it clear that masks DO work. It's ALL this other stuff that's spreading COVID like wildfire!

I'm sorry, but my health matters to me. I've been taking all the precautions. I would never let 3 people hug or kiss me now. Especially people I don't know very well. Their situations are unfortunate, but they could be asymptomatic carriers of the virus, meaning they have it but aren't exhibiting symptoms. I guess I'm not very altruistic - I would talk to them wearing a mask and socially distanced. But I'm not jeopardizing my health to hug and kiss people now. I would have held up my hand and backed away. The title of this thread is social responsibility. Letting 3 people kiss you is irresponsible because you could now be a carrier and pass it on. Asymptomatic carriers don't know they have Covid unless they're tested because they don't exhibit symptoms.

My goodness the only thing certain is the man went in to cardiac arrest on the flight. Everything else is he said, she said. It is a novel idea, but you know people still can die of illness other than covid. But that doesn't make for sensational news. Why not wait until you have the facts, not assumptions, not he said she said. Oh ya, people can feel ill the last day of vacation. It's called too much sun, to much booze, and too much food. After all it is the last day of vacation and they are going to party. Of course who was this family member that said he was ill? What even was their relationship to know he was ill? God, people are turning into small town busybodies that feed off of spreading tragic misinformation and assumptions to satisfy some twisted personality deficit.

Functionthenlook, it was his wife. She specifically told them he had Covid 19 symptoms. They should never have gotten on the plane.

Um, functionthenlook, please read more carefully.

"...the man’s wife had told emergency medical workers that he had tested positive for the virus."

So the relationship was the deceased person's wife, not a he said/she said situation. Neither had any business even being on that airplane. If the husband had a positive test result, it's highly likely the wife has it too, being they weren't isolating from each other.

Sephia, your posting half truths. Why didn't you copy and paste the whole quote? Someone says they overheard the wife saying that to medical personal. However, United said a medical professional did not confirm that at the time and it's unclear if he was infected. It in nothing but he said, she said. Small town busybodies at work!

Goodness, sanctimony is hardly helpful, though I am told it feels good to the sanctimonious.

Nicole, I am sure you were made very uncomfortable by those hugs. Stuff happens.

The news reports I have read said he was exhibiting Covid like symptoms but a diagnosis was not confirmed Would appreciate a link to a credible news source that indicates otherwise. Would be wise to test the passengers and crew.

We can talk all we want about mask wearing and social distancing however there is a segment of the population that doesn’t want to comply so it’s up to each individual to best protect themselves as much as possible

I'm spending the holidays alone(except for cat and my 2 puppets) because I am trying very hard not to catch Covid. I've been invited to Christmas at BILs and I'm politely declining.

I agree it's totally irresponsible to go out where you knowingly can infect someone when you have covid.

more details

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9071655/Photos-passengers-onboard-United-fight-complete-chaos-passengers.html

Thank you for the update mdln...

FTA:

• Since the incident happened, it has been confirmed by United and the CDC the man who died had coronavirus

Sometimes busybodies are right.

Those fools don't deserve pity, they willfully got on that flight and put all the passengers at risk, including the heroes who tried to revive him. Mind boggling. And United was responsible also for allowing someone who was obviously ill and struggling to breathe to board that flight.

Fools like that are how the virus flourishes. I better stop typing 'cause I'm feeling noooooo pity. Oh let's not call them fools, let's call them what they are: killers. Spreaders of death. No excuses.

My dad's assisted living facility is set for vaccinations on Jan 3rd. I'm hoping and praying that is soon enough, because they are having a covid outbreak right now. Nineteen residents positive to date, two of whom have died of covid.

I don't see one US news report that confirmed the man had covid. The one posted is from the UK. Apparently they get reports from the CDC before the US? The point is the man may or may not had covid, but that it was assumed and panic was spread on rumors before the test results were confirmed. Sweating and shortness of breath is classic cardiovascular symptoms also. Yes, sometimes busybodies are right, but their spreading of rumors with out truth is malicious in nature. They get a sick gratification from the misfortune of others.

And by the way covid is not automatic death, Nickle.

I seem to remember that the above poster has denied that the virus is the cause of deaths so it is not surprising that they are still in denial. Apparently the break down of peoples bodies can never be by any virus or any other problem other than things they caused themselves is a repeating statement since the virus started.

And we know where their philosophy originates. 316,000 deaths, 3000 a day, and one every 30 seconds but hey......And there's a more virulent strain in the UK.

And there's more...

After a passenger who may have had COVID-19 died on a United Airlines flight this week, a man who performed CPR on him says he is experiencing coronavirus symptoms....

"There were three of us that were essentially tag-teaming doing chest compressions, probably about 45 minutes."

https://www.newsweek.com/united-flight-coronavirus-emt-1556209

Not every case is fatal, so it follows the whole thing is being blown out of proportion. With all the worry reporting what is actually happening supposedly causes being more important than all the physical suffering and death the infections are generating. Because the Alternative Reality faithful don't like anything that suggests their versions of how things are have serious holes in them.

Not every case is fatal- but not every survivor is surviving unscathed either. A lot of people that have survived it came through with longer lasting health problems because of it.

Seems like most discussion is survive or death- not much talk about the health issues in survivors. It's a little akin to when mumps was more of an issue- sure, the patient didn't die, but they are left deaf for life. Sure, the patient didn't die of C-19, but they are left with things like fatigue, pain, cognitive issues, respiratory and pulmonary issues or acute kidney damage.

When folks don’t trust our leaders and health experts it makes it really tough to gain compliance to mask wearing and social distancing. Dr Birx flouted the rules at Thanksgiving: https://apnews.com/article/travel-pandemics-only-on-ap-delaware-thanksgiving-52810c22488fff7e6bb70746bdc9bc61

Politicians of both parties have also been spotted congregating without following the rules

A lack of trust in big pharma and the long term effects of the vaccine are a question in my mind. We haven’t tested the vaccine for a sufficient period of time to know if there could be a harmful side effect a few years down the road.

Maifleur03 yes, your memory is failing you. I never said covid wasn't causing deaths. There is quite a few community acquired diseases that can cause death.

The infection you pass along might not do serious harm to the first 99 people in the chain, but if that 100th unlucky individual suffers serious injury or death, yeah, I'd call people who knowingly start the chain, killers. I think we as a society should be "MADD" at them (remember Mothers Against Drunk Drivers?). Don't drive drunk, don't go out in public if you or anyone you've been close to is experiencing Covid symptoms. Pretty gosh-darn simple.

Fourteen days until my Dad gets vaccinated. It's comforting that even many older persons are surviving Covid, but I will be so thankful if Dad is spared.

.And there's a more virulent strain in the UK.

There is zero evidence that the strain in the UK is more 'virulent'.

Hancock said the new variant, which can spread faster than other strains but is not more dangerous, had to be controlled.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/20/uk/uk-coronavirus-variant-intl-gbr/index.html

What absolutely floors me is how quick some are to assign a non-Covid reason to anything which may be - but not yet officially confirmed to be - related to a Covid infection. It's almost like they are uniformly negating the seriousness of this health crisis for whatever reason they find comforting.......it's all a big hoax, the seriousness is overstated, if they ignore it maybe it will go away, etc.

Regardless of the cause of the passenger's death, he was obviously too ill to travel on an airline. And the fact that his wife has disclosed that he was tested as Covid positive before boarding means that his cause of death is neither here nor there. He still exposed passengers to the virus and that was undeniably socially irresponsible!

I think that the new strain is more contagious or infectious, but it doesn't sound like it causes more severe disease.

I did have to look up virulent to make sure of its meaning.

"Definition of virulent

1a: marked by a rapid, severe, and destructive coursea virulent infection

b: able to overcome bodily defensive mechanisms : markedly pathogenicvirulent bacteria

2: extremely poisonous or venomous"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virulent

This (old) dad, who has few restrictions with which to cope, will be some thankful if he's spared, as well, nickel.

Not only the death, but the potential ongoing disability as well, whether major or "only" minor, if you don't mind.

Taking precautions, but not obsessing, perhaps partly because no one depends on me to be viable (and I have fewer years of remaining life expectancy in the normal course than most of the population, anyway).

I'm thankful also that I don't need to be concerned to continue in good enough health to generate income from employment, either now or when covid restrictions are eased as I enjoy pensions, which continue until I sire an offspring called a "certificate of death", ordinarily delivered by a hospital ... or a funeral home.

Good wishes to you all for a satisfying Christmas or other celebration, and for health, safety and needs satisfied, plus kindnesses and smiles offered in a better year ahead.

ole joyfuelled

Nicole _ , keep at least a 6ft distance from others to keep out of "hugging range" from them. Just do it.

What if you were unknowingly infected? You don't want to put someone in the hospital just because you were too shy to say no to hugging them. NO ONE needs a hug that bad!

llucy.... Both my husband and I have both been tested for covid several times. It's very scary times. Job sites require it.

So why are you hugging these folks when you know better?

Think "hug = bug".

The Surgeon General Just Warned Americans About New COVID Strain

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-surgeon-general-just-warned-americans-about-new-covid-strain/ar-BB1c5v7M?ocid=msedgdhp

The media is all over the place on the he said/she said . One more recent article stated that someone said that the wife said he planned to get tested later in the week. We will only know for sure if the information is released from the coroner's report. Until then facts are unknown and what has been given by the airline as precautionary advice to the other passengers has turned into fear mongering hysteria based on hearsay.

I agree with what you said FOAS, with one exception. It'd be certain death to many. Those pesky underlying conditions say so.

A woman in my book group just lost her 42 yr old nephew to covid. Apparently he had undiagnosed co-morbidity that led to his death once he acquired the disease.

But! But! The media! The media!

Many people have no idea if they have preexisting conditions that could lead to dangerous health conditions. Those childhood diseases could have easily left long term consequences which when people are younger are simply there. As the body ages and muscles weaken with age as every muscle does health problems that were not noticed become worse enough to cause problems.

Not only that, but it seems that people with more ace 2 receptors are at greater risk, but how many of us know how many ace 2 receptors we have???

The virus targets parts of the body that have mucous, builds up there. Hence breathing problems including suffocation. And there being a variety of other symptom complexes occurring.

For the skeptics, coroner report.

Now this is how a news report should read. No he said she said, no speculation, no assumptions, no rumor mill, no sensationalism, just proven truth based journalism.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/doctor-on-cnn-dont-be-alarmed-if-elderly-die-after-receiving-covid-vaccine

The real question is, how many are flying who are asymptomatic, or sick but not on deaths door so we don't know they are in fact contagious...

And the choice these people made! If she had gotten him to a hospital sooner, could the outcome have been different? Let alone the exposure to everyone else...

SMH

Aaannd, in case anyone is wondering (especially if in the "people aren't really dying from Covid" camp): respiratory failure is a secondary although terminal event, always caused by something else. In this case it seems to have been caused by his Covid infection.

Raee, in medical coding

respiratory failure can be listed as the primary diagnosis It all depends on physician documentation.

The man knew he was sick, his wife knew and sounds like the did know it was covid. They were away from home and probably wanted to get home rather than isolate in Orlando or end up in a hospital there. So decided to expose a whole plane full of people.

From this article: https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-died-collapsing-united-flight-covid-19-coroner/story?id=74868916

In order to fly on major U.S. airlines passengers must confirm they haven't tested positive for the coronavirus or experienced COVID-like symptoms within the past 14 days. The passenger did fill out that form and said no to both, sources tell ABC News.

According to witnesses, the passenger's wife told an emergency medical technician that her husband was experiencing COVID-related symptoms, including loss of smell and difficulty breathing.

"Now this is how a news report should read. No he said she said, no speculation, no assumptions, no rumor mill, no sensationalism, just proven truth based journalism."

I disagree with this. There was a reasonable assumption - not proof, but an assumption - that the passenger had COVID. The news reports warned the passengers on the flight that they could be at risk, and that testing and self isolation were called for (not that I expect many of them would have bothered, given attitudes towards the disease). Waiting for the autopsy result before letting informing the passengers would have contributed to yet further spread of the disease, including among their family and friends. This way, they at least knew to take precautions, even if they chose not to do so.

Interesting that airlines have NO responsibility to let passengers know if a COVID case was suspected. Totally up to the CDC to contact trace. Good luck on that, I suspect.

The sad thing is that imagine if you are having a cardiac infarction (heart attack) and fall to the ground. I would imagine many people these days might hesitate to assist.

=====

Passenger Who Had Medical Emergency on Flight Died of
Covid-19, Coroner Says

The episode in Louisiana raised concerns about the risks
travelers face, even with heightened safety precautions in place.

NY Times 22Dec2020

((excerpted)

A coroner in Louisiana confirmed on Tuesday what some had
feared: that the death last week of a 69-year-old man who experienced a medical
emergency aboard a United Airlines flight bound for Los Angeles had been caused
by Covid-19.

The coroner’s office in Jefferson Parish identified the
passenger as Isais Hernandez, 69, of Los Angeles, who was on United Flight 591
when it took off from Orlando, Fla., on Dec. 14.

While in the air, Mr. Hernandez experienced a medical
emergency; several passengers and flight attendants administered aid to him as
the flight was diverted to New Orleans.

When the flight landed, Mr. Hernandez was taken to Ochsner
Medical Center-Kenner, where he died just after 9 p.m., according to the
coroner’s report, which said the cause of death was “acute respiratory failure,
Covid-19.”

On Tuesday night, two people who said they had been on the
flight and had rendered aid to Mr. Hernandez said they had not been contacted
by health officials.

Jacquelyn Tran and her boyfriend, Steven Chang, both 29, of
Orange County, Calif., said in interviews that they had been sitting across the
aisle and one row behind Mr. Hernandez during the flight. Ms. Tran said she had
seen Mr. Hernandez “trying to get out of his seat” about 20 minutes after
takeoff and asked a flight attendant to check on him.

Eventually, several passengers and flight attendants
rendered aid to Mr. Hernandez for the duration of the flight, the couple said.
They included Mr. Chang, a medical student; Ms. Tran, an administrative
assistant at a cancer center; a nurse who was seated in the back of the plane;
an emergency medical technician who was seated toward the front of the plane;
and several flight attendants.

Ms. Tran administered epinephrine, which can reduce swelling
in the airway and increase blood flow in the veins, and also helped give Mr.
Hernandez fluids, she said. Mr. Chang and the nurse provided cardiopulmonary
resuscitation to Mr. Hernandez, the couple said.