I'm sure you are right Paul. I still cannot believe Sacramento allowed this to happen. For what reason? Apparently evil still walks among us.

For those who are not familiar with Tom Liggett, these links may be of use:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/03/05/tom-liggett-driving-force-for-san-joses-heritage-rose-garden/

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&biw=1029&bih=547&sxsrf=ALeKk00p8jTF-4ZMgFIsP8q9OY9L-q8j_w%3A1607626922495&ei=qnDSX7XjHcW6tAawgKhA&q=%22Tom+Liggett%22+%22rose%22&oq=%22Tom+Liggett%22+%22rose%22&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIGCAAQBxAeOgUIABDNAjoFCCEQqwI6BAgAEB5Q8KkfWOS1H2DuwR9oAXAAeACAAX2IAe4EkgEDMy4zmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwi14JX9jMTtAhVFHc0KHTAACggQ4dUDCA0&uact=5

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR I expect its more about an effort to make the city's life easier and to manage a "nuisance". I'm sure apathy plays a role too.

Paul and Kim are correct. The Rose Garden volunteers tried and tried. And many of us wrote letters. It was all to no avail.

For those who are able, the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden could use your help. At least, so far, that garden has survived. (Though Pandemic restrictions have hurt.)

There is one more rose in the Cemetery that I still want cuttings from, and I hope to be able to get that, yet.

As for Mr. Liggett . . . Well, my ancestors invented vendetta. I won't forget this.

In California, there is a lot of bias against roses because of the native plant obsession. And it is frustrating to see native plants so often shoehorned into difficult horticultural situations, while much more appropriate plants are ignored or shunned. I wonder if that has anything to do with this.

The wonderful volunteers were doing all the work. This makes so little sense. The Sacramento officials could have sat back and taken credit like those kind of people do.

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

"The wonderful volunteers were doing all the work. This makes so little sense. The Sacramento officials could have sat back and taken credit like those kind of people do."

Volunteers who do work like this are often underappreciated, and sadly, sometimes disparaged. I bet there's one p*sspot in a position of power at the city who hates the roses and wants them gone, so they are making it happen. I can just picture someone saying "Let's get those effing roses outta there!!"

HU-455777712 -- There was a native plant garden there, as well. I believe it is also removed.

"I bet there's one p*sspot in a position of power at the city who hates the roses and wants them gone,"

*** TRUTH.

OMG, that's so sad!!!

It is my favorite rose garden. I have spent many lunch time walking around and plan to be a volunteer to work there after retirement.

I wish I could do something.......

I wonder if there has been an attempt to advocate for the rose garden from this perspective:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-access-nature-important-mental-health.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

Lynne -- Since you are a Sacramento citizen, I suggest you tell the City that you feel what they are doing is wrong. It might not help, but at least you will have added your input.

Are gardens important?

"People in the study—who ranged from stuck at home to stressed in essential worker jobs—reported significant increases in outdoor activity during COVID-19, especially among women.

Outdoor activities seeing the largest increases were: watching wildlife (up 64%), gardening (57%), taking photos or doing other art in nature (54%), relaxing alone outside (58%), and, yes, making their masked and distanced way on walks (70%)."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-pandemic-people-natureespecially-women.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

"What does it take to get some people to go outside and experience nature? For some urban dwellers, it took the COVID-19 pandemic, researchers say.

The new study finds that 26% of people visiting parks during early months of the COVID-19 pandemic had rarely—or never—visited nature in the previous year."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-nature-lover-covid-side-effect.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

Why can't folks lobby for the city of Sacramento to hire one Old Garden Rose Specialist to oversee the pruning each and every year. It need not be a full time all year position but it does need to have enough hours during the winter pruning season, and a month in summer for the pruning of the non-remontant rosebushes when (and if) they need it in order for the largest quantity of beauty to prevail.

The before and after photo of 'Sutters' Gold' in the article shocked me as much as if someone knocked off the head of the famous sculpture of David. Something exquisite was cut down.

Because some groups of Old Roses have enormous growth habits, the appearance of a well-grown Old Rose Garden will be lush and luxurious, not overgrown, but properly grown according to which class each rosebush belongs to. One must understand the importance of each class in order to prune any one of the more than 10,000 rose cultivars, which are placed into one particular group called a "class". For instance an Alba rosebush blooms for 3-4 weeks every year, in spring where I live. One may prune it i back for size if need after its bloom season, which where I live occurs c. July. Because its' blue-green foliage and flagon shaped hips are so very ornamental, I never pruned my Alba Semi-Plena.

My father was born in 1904 and he lived through the great age of Rambler rosebushes, through the 1920's, 30's and 40's when Rambler rosebushes covered the sides of barns in the countryside In that era, most North Americans lived in the countryside. . A rambler such as 'Dorothy Perkins' could grow to be twenty feet high by nearly as wide, which is not uncommon in the Rambler class. Rambling roses were so popular that there was even a popular song that mentioned a girl called rambling Rose. Where now can a Rambler rose be seen growing to its' proper size? Blessed Sacramento.

A wild rose named R. wichurana was commonly called the "memorial rose", It can easily cover a 10 foot by 15 foot area with darling white blossoms.

Noisette rosebushes belong to the only class of rose developed in the United States. A rosebush such as Cato'' Cluster' can produce canes as long as 8 feet long, in every directions.

I've seen tree-sized Tea class rose bushes, such as the lovely 'Mrs. Dudley Cross' grown big enough to produced thousands of blooms during each bloom cycle.

With the Old Garden Tea class of rose, think big and then think bigger.

. Because

the bigger the canopy, the more thousands of rose blossoms;

Glorious roses, scented rose blossoms,

exquisite and welcome- in- gladness rose blossoms.

Merry Holidays and holy days,

luxrosa

Because someone in the City no longer wants the roses to be there, period. They already had expert, experienced personnel there who were there, FREE, for YEARS, numerous times a week and did it for the love of the place and the roses. The City has done all they can to insult, diminish and run off the entire staff of volunteers who had sustained that garden for more than two and a half decades. This has been a deliberate "screw you" to those involved.

Lux, it is way worse than you know. What Kim said.

LUX -- Much as I hate to say it, Kim hit the nose on the head.

Instead of numerous experienced rosarians pouring their labor and love into the garden, Sacramento now has ONE so-called "expert" who they are paying to destroy it.

I gather that it gives them a proud feeling of power to destroy, rather than create.

Additional viewpoints:

https://sacramento.newsreview.com/2020/09/16/old-city-cemetery-looking-a-lot-less-rosy/

https://sacramentocityexpress.com/2016/03/14/city-clarifies-information-about-the-historic-city-cemetery-and-its-rose-garden/

Henry -- This picture of the Sacramento City Cemetery was taken in 1860.

EIGHTEEN-SIXTY!!!

It speaks for itself.

Wow! I wish I could see that in color! Its still beautiful though. The city people in Sacramento are dumb@s$es if they want to destroy that.

Not " . . . want to destroy . . . "

ARE destroying it.

The entire article turns my stomach inside out, and I will never understand this nonsense. The insane rubbish on page 3 makes me intensely sad and angry at the same time. This is not the California of my youth.

We can still make our own gardens beautiful. I'm inspired to pour even more love and care into my little plot of land.

That's the absolute safest thing you can do, Flowers. There is nowhere else you have any control over. At least you know as long as you live, own, can afford to support and physically tend your garden, it will remain your sanctuary as long as you desire it to be. If and when you ever leave it, don't go back. Paradise is most often lost.

That 2016 Sacramento express article is chock full of lies. I rather doubt that the volunteers caring for the roses agreed to what has been done. Liggett has a lot of nerve claiming to be any kind of rose preservationist.

Liggett has a lot of nerve, period. Long time members of this forum know what I am talking about.

Thanks Paul and Folly. You are both right about the article, and most-assuredly right about Mr. Liggett.

For those of you that are not "long time members", this rec.gardens.roses thread may help satisfy your curiosity. Please note the "historical big guns" who participated in the defense of Tom (my interpretation).

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.gardens.roses/c/KiqRRuPUkpc

Ugh. Just ugh.

Reading this thread makes me so sad. I feel fortunate to have visited this garden twice and to have seen it in all its glory. Thanks for the updates on the current situation there.

I so regret not getting there yet at all. I had planned a road trip last Spring before the shutdown. This is all so sad. This was probably the most inspirational garden I could ever have visited, with my love for Tea roses.

I suggest that a referendum be placed on the next ballot eliminating the positions of Park Director and Consultant, such action being necessary because of decreased funding due to the Covid-19 virus pandemic. The Covid-19 virus pandemic being an "Act of God" permits elimination of these positions without penalty to the city regardless of contract terms.

The Assistant Park Director could then assume the Director's duties on a temporary basis.

If the Assistant Director does not work out, dismissal would be easier because of the temporary status.

It would be wise to select an attorney to shepherd this process.

Cath

Well... interesting comments. I worked as volunteer, manager and, eventually, curator of the Historic Rose Garden for 17 years. Paul, Roseseek and Jeri all describe things pretty accurately. I was targeted, harassed and banned as a volunteer, with a lot of lies hurled at me by city staff. Henry, I met you in Wooster some years ago. The 2016 city article is not true. We did NOT agree to the changes they proposed. The issue is, to a large degree, a question of whether the cemetery should look backwards, and be only a historic cemetery, or whether, under the applicable Standards of Rehabilitation for this Federally registered historic site, it can accommodate gardens as well. The answer is that it could accommodate the gardens, and in fact the Cemetery Master Plan in 2007 embraced them and the 2014 Federal Registration listed the Historic Rose Garden as a contributing feature, which should have protected it. . However, the staff currently in charge - and it's not just ONE person, it is staff overall - believes that the cemetery should only be a cemetery, and that gardens are historically inappropriate. We can no longer call the garden the Historic Rose Garden. We can no longer even call it a GARDEN. We can no longer have tags on the roses. Volunteers can no longer work there, supposedly because of Covid. The "consultant" apparently worked without pay, and apparently is no longer involved. He worked hard to cut out all old wood, thinking that ensures the health of the roses. He may have spent a lifetime working with roses, but his knowledge of old roses and horticulture is not as deep as he claims. Some of the roses responded great. Some did not. I have worked hard to distribute cuttings of the rare and historic roses in the cemetery to other public gardens and commercial sources in order to preserve them, helped by wonderful fellow volunteers. I have about 60 plants held in reserve from our spring sale that I am working to have planted in nearby gardens or to share with other sites who are dedicated to rose preservation. Most of the roses are still there, and volunteers have been told they may take cuttings later on this year. There are a few that we still need to obtain. I am still grieving but trying to pivot, as people have had to do in so many ways under the pandemic, and turn my efforts elsewhere. Thank you, everybody.

Anita, we all are grieving with you too. I would probably have had a stroke seeing this horrible turn of events closer. So sorry you had to see this happen. It was such a glorious garden you and your cohorts created.

Thank you for all your efforts to spread the roses around once it came to this. Of course, we all wanted to see them together there.

I'm really disappointed that Sacramento allowed this travesty to happen.

The day after I was dismissed as a volunteer, my son was married under one of the arbors. The roses were at peak, and the cemetery was so lush and romantic. I will never understand why city staff didn't want to capitalize on its beauty and develop the cemetery for more such events. They say that they want to "monetize" the cemetery - this was one of the ways to do it. There was a palpable feeling of love in the cemetery, not just during the wedding but throughout the year, from the sentiments on the stones, the lovely roses and companion plants, and the spirit of the volunteers. All of the arbors are gone now. So is the love.

Unbelievably beautiful, Anita.

I can't "like" your comment, Anita. The beauty and the dedication of all of you who recreated the garden centerpiece the Victorians who created the Cemetery designed and lovingly assembled out of nothing are glorious. The complete lack of appreciation and disrespect for you, the volunteers and those who assembled the collection and structures; the disregard of the incalculable hours, months and years of dedicated labor and love of all who have labored out of love for the place and its memories; the literal hatred by a few hard souls who have labored so diligently to destroy something irreplaceable and the reputations and memory of all involved is absolutely disgusting.

This is just so, so sad. Anita as you know I wanted to try to run a painting course at the cemetery (another potential way for the city to earn money from the space) but given COVID and the current state of the garden I'm holding off. I don't imagine that the roses will recover to the point at which I'd be able to do a class in the future. The sad situation aside, I am so glad that your son's wedding could happen in the cemetery before the changes were made -- what a beautiful picture and a wonderful memory!

Well, I did "like" your comment, but as a tribute to your courage and resilience.

What a beautiful wedding photograph, in the most romantic setting I have seen. My best wishes for the couple's happiness.

The barbarians are no longer at the gate.

I wonder, can't people who live in Sacramento go to the city council meetings and complain about these changes, and make constructive suggestions? ...Or has that already been tried?

It is truly disheartening to see what is happening at the cemetery.

But I would think that if people complain loudly to the politicians they would be motivated to do something about whoever the new cemetery manager is.

Ugh.

People tried everything, Slum. The haters dug in deeper.

So sad!!!!

How about a social media campaign to boycott booking the cemetery for any events?

I doubt any events would be booked anyway after what they did to the garden. This went on over several years and evil won.

I was among those writing letters, filing comments -- alas to no avail, I now see. I will treasure the many photos and memories from our visits in years past that much more, remembering again how fleeting these treasures can be -- and this despite the amazing devotion of Anita and the volunteers. (I'm really grinding my teeth over a lost opportunity to compare a "Jesse Hildreth" with a nearby "Westside Road Cream Tea" over the years, as they matured there. When I was last there, two years ago, they were looking remarkably similar ;-) ... ).

We are pretty sure that Jesse Hidreth and Westside Road Cream Tea are the same - what a terrific rose, with big white flowers and a phenomenal grapefruit-like fragrance! Jesse Hildreth grew big and tree-like where it was originally found, but it stayed small and twiggy in our garden, and so did Westside Road Cream Tea. These roses were still in the cemetery the last that I looked, which was a couple of months ago. The really hard pruning was directed to any rose with old wood or that grew over 3' tall, or any plant that was supported on a structure or along the fence. So, it's possible that these roses will still be there for comparison purposes. We are told that a few roses have died, and we have no idea what is ahead for the roses. We have held back a Jesse Hildreth plant and will be keeping it in a volunteer's garden so that it is available for propagation without having to rely on the cemetery plant..

Sheila and slumgullion, they aren't scheduling anything right now due to Covid restrictions. Even if they were, I think that they are so convinced they have done the right things in terms of historic preservation that they won't care whether or not they lose events. It is so ironic. Our big windstorm knocked over four trees in the cemetery and did a lot of damage - the roses and supports would have gone through the storm without causing any problems. The staff focuses on "vegetation" as the source of damage and removes daffodils, iris and roses - when, if you read about historic cemetery preservation, the problem is, always, trees.

i am in Texas but have fumed about this almost making myself sick. What I would say to those who destroyed such beauty would probably get me jailed. I dont know who did this......but would love to know where to write each one personally, if anyone can provide me with the information. Wont of course do any good, but just knowing I made my voice heard would make me feel better. I dont know about Tom Liggett or what he did or what part he played in this. I just cannot imagine what the "city staff" is doing with their time that they feel destroying a city landmark with such dedicated hatred is doing anything positive for Sacramento. Arent there problems to solve that are of greater importance than this? If any of these scumbags are elected officials, I hope there is a campaign to get them soundly beaten at the next election. Am so sorry I was not able to see this landmark in all its blooming glory; have loved looking at the photos over the year, at least that remains.

Ugh it is SOOOOOO frustrating. I'm so glad to hear at least some of the roses are surviving and/or being preserved off-site.

I'm sure you guys have tried everything you can think of. Unfortunately as we've seen, ignorant or arrogant or ideological executives can do a lot of damage in a very short time.

I hope someone can find a way to get this new guy replaced before the damage is permanent. I still wonder why the city is so committed to letting him do his thing, especially when it seems there is good evidence that what he's doing is not the right way to approach "preservation."

Does he have political connections? or what?

What's his name? Is it this Tom Liggett guy?

He sounds like a real a-hole. I bet if someone has a look through his old social media posts, one will find his a-holery showing through in other places. Which might provide some leverage with the city. Just sayin'....what goes around comes around....

Uh oh, my evil twin took over for a minute there!