Natural Gas versus LP versus Oil - crazy steep NG install cost

3 years ago

Hi Everyone! My partner and I are building a home in New England, and we've run into a conundrum with our heating source. We have done some self research and we have spoken with our builder, but know there is a ton of expertise to be found on this board and would love additional feedback.

To make a long story short: We planned to connect to the natural gas line on our street for heat, hot water, cooking, dryer and standby generator. When we selected our site, we spoke with several neighbors who recently connected to the gas line for no charge (some even received a rebate incentive from the gas company to connect). That said, we have a lengthy driveway (about 500 feet) so we suspected we would not get a free install. At the time, the gas company would not provide an estimate but seemed very willing to work with us. Imagine our shock last week when the gas company informed our builder that it would cost "at least 20K to 30K" to run a line from the street to our site, and further that they would not be able to run the line until March 2021. The rationale for this cost was not clear, but the gas company cited a couple of things: the need to use a steel pipe due to the type of gas main, and the fact that the gas company recently realized they have been grossly undercharging. This did not sit well with us and we have reached out to our local utility regulatory agency. But, in the meantime, our main questions are:

1) Do folks see any justification for this cost from the gas company? Our builder had never heard of such a high number, and I struggle to understand how the company could have paid folks to connect to this same (high pressure steel) line in the past, and now wants to charge us such a cost-prohibitive amount.

2) Is there any scenario where this cost would be worthwhile in the long run? We plan to live in this home for the next 40+ years, but from our calculations it would take a REALLY long time to make up the install cost with the lower monthly cost of natural gas.

3) Our other alternatives are propane or oil (oil is most common in our area). Since we had our hearts set on a gas range and a standby generator, we will need a propane take no matter what - so our first instinct is to do a large buried tank and use that for heat and hot water too. Of course, from our research, propane does end up costing more than oil.. so not ideal. What do other people recommend? Any New Englanders out there who heat with propane? We do not know of anyone in our area, and of course the propane companies that we have spoken to are quick to sing the praises of LP.

We welcome any feedback and thanks very much! Hope everyone is staying healthy and safe out there.

Featured Answer

kevinande

3 years ago

I second Stax's recommendation. You could even do a hybrid system that would allow you to run the heat pump in milder weather and if it gets to extremes the LP can take over. Cooking and hot water should not use a lot of fuel. Your furnace is where you are going to see most of the expense. While LP is not ideal, I think this would probably be a good option for you. This way you still have sufficient heat in extremes and this will still allow use a LP powered stand by generator. Sucks, they want to charge that much to run a piece of steel!

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Comments (10)

BT
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Crazy.

Call your gas company and ask who is allowed to hookup.

What will the cost be if you provide the trench, the line. etc
hadda20j
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@BT - Thanks. Agreed, absolutely crazy. At that cost, they must use steel pipe that is lined with gold and diamonds!

We were told that the gas company is the only entity who can run lines off of the gas main on our street and they must provide the actual steel pipe, but I have asked them to itemize the trenching cost, since property owners are permitted to handle the trenching work on their own (.. and I have no doubt that our builder can do it for less).
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Stax
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
What are the price points for a Lower Temp Capable Heat Pump with Oil as the backup.

(I'm way down south in MD, but that's the setup I have.) Love it and save money.

Also, what the possibilities of a a Heat Pump Hot Water Heater rather than a propane fuel heater?
michaelraysmith
3 years ago
I oversee gas service installations in the NYC metro area. $30K - $50K is not uncommon. It is crazy. Since you're building a home, why not go with an air-sourced heat pump. Technology has really advanced and cold weather systems now go down to -15 F. I am doing a major renovation and decided to spend some money on exterior insulation, air sealing, etc. This additional cost substantially reduces the heating load and the overall HVAC system size. Depending on the size of your house, you may be able have a nicely insulated house and an installed system all for $30K.
hadda20j
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks, @Stax and @michaelraysmith. We are going to do some research on heat pumps. My initial (and admittedly uninformed) impression was that a quality heat pump setup is out of our budget at this point, and they are most worthwhile in warmer climates. I definitely need to look into it further, though. We will need a propane tank at any rate if we can't get NG (the gas range and standby generator are non-negotiables for us, especially since we are on well/septic and it's not uncommon for our street to lose power during inclement weather)..

@michaelraysmith - Interesting to hear the install prices in your area. I can see how the prices go up in the city, but our line would just run across already cleared and unimproved land (no structures, driveways, trees).. and our gas company has run lines on the same street for FREE in the past! I can see an adjustment from $0 to $5,000 for a longer strip, but $0 to $20,000 or $30,000 still doesn't seem right to me..
Stax
3 years ago
The back up heat source for the Heat Pump for heating can be either LP or oil.

I've got oil....
hadda20j thanked Stax
PRO
Austin Air Companie
3 years ago
Don't pick just any old heat pump. An inverter heat pump is what you want. They can heat down to 5F degrees. Some models / brands maybe a bit lower. The compressor runs at varying speeds in an inverter. So keep that in mind.

A run of the mill heat pump ( either on or off single speed or two speed) runs off a cliff once temps drop to around 35F degrees and run time amounts to anything significant.

The larger problem for heat pumps in colder climates is snow accumulation / drifting. So you either have to put up snow fence or move the unit if your guess is off as to where to locate the outdoor unit. Either that hire a snow removal expert for around the clock mitigation.

The back up heat can be anything even electric strip heat in the air handler. Obviously your electric rates will be a deciding factor as well.

The advantage to all electric is repair costs are lower / no carbon monoxide to worry about. No tank that could leak at some point etc.

That said, if home is well insulated you may not need emergency heat except in the event the heat pump goes down due to some problem.
hadda20j thanked Austin Air Companie
mike_home
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Since you plan to use propane for your stove and back up generator, then a dual fuel system of a heat pump and gas furnace would make sense. The gas furnace could be easily modified in the future if the gas company comes to their senses and connects you at a reasonable cost. Spending extra money on the inverter type heat pump makes sense depending on the relative cost of electricity versus propane. The furnace will be the best back up in the event the heat pump can't operate for any reason. Running the gas furnace off the generator is possible. Running the heat pump would is also possible but would require a larger generator.
hadda20j thanked mike_home
Brad Smith
3 years ago
If you're somewhat rural (you mention well & septic), look into a water-source (open loop) heat pump too. We have a WaterFurnace5 at our current place, and previously had a Sol-A-Terra system. We're up near Ottawa, so much more "winter" than you'll typically get, and never in 30+ years did we ever need "auxiliary" heat. Plus you get AC in the summer.

Yes, quite the up-front cost, but assuming you're going to want AC anyway, be sure to add that into your calculations. These need to be installed by specialists though.

There are also closed-loop systems, but those can be more complicated to install and/or need a lot of land for the piping.

We have a LP for our stove, whole-house generator, fireplace and BBQ. The generator is big enough to run the heat pump if needed.
hadda20j thanked Brad Smith

Natural Gas versus LP versus Oil - crazy steep NG install cost

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Natural Gas versus LP versus Oil - crazy steep NG install cost

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