I needed to see the plan before and honestly see no point in the bump out why not just another nice sized window and certanly not the one in B that makes no sense . Since not of them add sq footage I think none just nice windows makes a lot more sense to me.BTW a butlers pantry needs to be connected to the kitchen and the DR through it any other space is just a pantry or in your case a spot to mix drinks and maybe make coffee and I sure would not want it beside the PR Back to back sinks and ranges are never good . If you must do a bump out I would choose A this is one of those stupid rules for no reason . Sorry no perfect layout and why is the DR larger than the LR

Thanks @Patricia Colwell Consulting I don't disagree with you -

But per zoning I cannot have a wall that is more than 25 continuous feet. The side walls are already at side setback line so only way I can break them up is by small bump in or out - but it must be 2 ft deep, no more than 15 square feet and mostly windows..

So at this point I'm trying to determine what is best layout for kitchen, stairs and everything else, despite the unnecessary bump outs in each design...

There is only a butlers pantry in B. In A and C that is a coat closet by the powder room.

The dining room is 14x12. The formal living room is 12x12 if we put up some wall at entrance. The foyer is 6'6" wide.. We will spend most of our time realistically in the kitchen - thus the various floor plans - and family room which is 20x17.

I like B...I like that the stairs, which the family will be running up and down often, are near the family living areas, but farther from the front living room, which I imagine is more of an "away" area.

plan C / the entrances in and out of formal dining room allow the space to be something else if so desired by you or future residents. And plan C still allows some wiggle room to cut back the long part of perimeter/maybe tweak the island .

I think I like B the best, though the bumpout near the stairs is, as Particia said, weird. Does it work with the zoning rules to get rid of that bumpout in B and incorporated a bay window in the dining room instead (like C)?

@cawaps You mean the bump out by the butler pantry from kitchen to dining room, right?

Alas, if I could lose the butler bump out and do it in the dining room I'd be more at peace! Because I cannot have any exterior wall longer than 25 continuous feet, I need to break up that right back wall there..

A is nice. C is best. I don't like B with the bad kitchen layout, and the fact the staircase is on an interior wall and will be dark. I also like that the living room becomes an "away" or adult space. Maybe a place to watch tv, or a game room, orlops of other choices.

C, definitely! Better DR access plus what Herbflavor & CPArtist said. Overall, it has a much better "feel".

However, I'm not a big fan of any of the Kitchen layouts. The island isn't wide enough to house both the Prep Zone and the Cleanup Zone.

Regardless of kitchen layout, do not use plan A - there is no wall space in the family room on which to place furniture. The other 2 plans have that one wall opposite the backyard that will provide flexibility in furniture arrangement ( for example to house a large book shelf or tv ).

And acoustically, the less open plans - from front to back - will live better.

Out of those B and C are better. I like the overall arrangement of B best, but would make some changes to improve the kitchen which I don't like as is drawn and I'd also add a window into the stairs area (I know someone mentioned they are interior, but I don't see that. Seems to be on an exterior wall).

I like the separation in B of the different spaces and that the stairs are in the most convenient location for where family will be spending their time. The dining room isn't looking into the powder room area, which is one major drawback on plan C. The other on plan C is the distance to the stairs from the areas where you will be spending most of your time.

For the kitchen in B I'd use the bump out for the extra counter space so you can extend the stove wall cabinets all the way to the end and then walk straight without a jog into the dining room from the kitchen. The trade-off is that you don't get any upper cabinets in the bump out area, but you do get them in the kitchen instead and you gain some storage in the bump out area. I'd also put the refrigerator closer to the eat-in area along the stove wall so it makes it easier to grab things like the ketchup or extra milk or whatever after sitting down to eat.

For the banquet consider just making it a long bench in the back and eliminate those corners as they just make it much harder to get in and the way they are done they are not even providing a seating spot so no point in having the "wings".

The problem with B is the powder room is up against the dining room wall which means flushing will be heard and maybe other noises. And no, no amount of soundproofing will completely eliminate that. (Ask me how I know.)

The difference of where the stairs are is minimal. The difference between B and C is maybe 6-8 steps if that many.

Really like Buehl's second layout. Only difference is I'd still get some sort of windows in high up on the cooktop wall.

One other thought. Whichever layout you choose, I'd move the door from the garage to the mudroom to the left side of the mudroom. Why? Because kids especially have a bad habit of not walking back into a room to drop their stuff.

Cpartist - Sound proofing can mitigate that. It just has to be done right with resilient channels, however it won't be as bad as you think because the toilet is backing to the kitchen so with some of the new sound reduction sheet rock and some rock wool it would be reduced a lot and if you then threw in resilient channels it would be a non-issue. The cost wouldn't be bad either as it is such a small space. I'd rather do that then be able to see into the powder room as each person enters/exits and I think guests would prefer the privacy of not being stared at going into and out of the powder room either.

Cpartist - Sound proofing can mitigate that

Actually not completely. Ask me how I know? I still hear the flush of the toilets and all our bathrooms are sound proofed. And I had all the new stuff put in. Remember my house is only 2 years old. It only goes so far.

Most people will not see the powder room since it's in a separate hallway. I usually agree with you, but in this case nope. :D

You have resilient channels?

Unfortunately 4 seats have a direct view into the powder room in C. Maybe if the powder room and that hallway is flipped that would help and provide more privacy.

B. I really like the stairs in the middle of the home like that.

Lyfia, even with all that insulation there is still the issue of the door not being soundproof.

Yeah, but the noise from the door has to travel the same path as it would if it was across except It is going in the opposite direction so the noise from across Would also be heard if we only consider the door. The whole wall including the little hallway to the powder room needs to be sound insulated. It does require more thought and work though to keep it there and avoid noise. it is good to point out the flaws though and let the OP think through what matters more to them and also decide what they want to do about it. I usually try to present all options even if they are not all ideal for anyone making a decision so they can weigh what matters to them And what they can do if they are leaning one way or another when they want something. Unfortunately there are always some trade offs.

Wow @Buehl Thank you for taking the time to draft those kitchen options! It is really helpful to visualize better what will fit, counter space, etc.. And you think that can be accomplished - and not look too dinky - in "C" with only 23 feet of wall space for the stove wall of appliances and a little dinette/seating area??

Thank you so much @cpartist and @lyfia Those are all great points.

I actually at one point (so many drafts!) had the powder room entrance in "B" flush with the dining room/hall wall to make more of a pantry space in the butler area on the right... But had hoped that by adding the hall closet turn into the powder room and the toilet and sink against the kitchen wall it might help mitigate cpartist's points..

**BUT to your point then cpartist - Will you not hear noises then against the family room where we will spend lots of time??

To solve both your concerns - I could do only ONE entrance to mudroom, closets and powder room... so you'd have to enter through mudroom to get to powder room.. We will keep it a fairly pretty mudroom, but still is that annoying to have to walk through mudroom? It would tuck powder room away from all sightlines etc....

I am learning there are certainly tradeoffs!! .. The kitchen size and the powder room placement are my two remaining concerns about the design..

To answer your question. My powder room is in my friend's entry and my friend's entry is also my mudroom. It depends on how you keep a mudroom, what it looks like etc.

Yes you might hear noises in the family room too but the question is would you rather hear it in the family room while watching tv or conversing or while you're in the middle of eating your dinner?

And Lyfia, I agree with you 100%. Just like everyone did with my house, they offered their suggestions and their reasons for why something might or might not work and then it was up to me to decide what is best for us.

B is the best.

A & C leave the Powder Room exit subject to scoring by the dining table judges. Too much pressure.

@Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor Ha! Great answer. I thought with little hall closet you would not really see that far... ??

Would it change anything for you if I put powder room access from mudroom - so only one entrance point into mudroom.. or moved position of closet and powder room to face opposite wall - although then I fear sightline would be from kitchen...

Does anyone seem concerned about "C" being the shortest kitchen length at 23 feet? ... That was my big concern. Don't want kitchen to feel dinky trying to fit in dinette area too..

I have a friend with option B but the power room is off the garage. The powder room space is closet. Her kitchen is beautiful. The range, island sink and family room fireplace are centered and symmetrical. But I find the the kitchen and rest of the floor plan unfunctional. The island is a mess with dirty dishes and people trying to mingle around the food platters around the island. No one stays in the dining room after dinner because it's a hallway. People naturally to cut across the dining room to get to the butler pantry / bar area or kitchen (the shortest path). The bulter pantry/bar area, fridge aisle and range aisle is like a 3 way stop. You need turn your body to let the person a head of you pass before you can go.

While I am on the traffic analogies, another friend has option A and the pillar between the dining room, family room and kitchen acts like a roundabout.

I like option C the most and Buehl's suggestion to put the clean up sink on the parameters (wall shared with the dining room). The fridge and drinks are further away from the dining room but it's closer to the eat in kitchen. And you can easily drop dirty dishes on the counter or load straight into the DW after dinner.

I think the garage and mud room doors will be annoying in all options. Would you give up mud room storage for a vestibule?

My kitchen is 21’ and is fine.

BTW: My kitchen layout is very similar to Beuhls first layout except my prep sink is not in the corner

@cpartist Is that 21' with a dinette area for kitchen table? Or all cabinetry/appliances?

I'm not a fan of powder rooms in the mudroom with the exception of that it makes it easy access when outside. We have a bench/hooks/cubbies in ours and shoes storage, but I always consider it our one dirty area. I clean it regularly, but it is certainly not an area that I really want guests to see even though as it is in our current house all enter there anyway due to the driveway and how far the entrance is from it. I live in a southern climate, but I could see a snowy climate have some wet areas and kids is a whole other issue with keeping it picked up. When we have people over and kids running around they just leave stuff all over the floor in there as they go in and out. That is a reason I want a mudroom to contain that mess. Just flip the powder room if you're leaning towards option C. It also removes the wall that will be noisiest without doing any special noise mitigation from sharing it with the family room.

Your kitchen in any of the plans does not look small or undersized. A foot in length doesn't matter as much as the efficiency of the layout matters. If you had a small kitchen then I could see that foot being an issue, but you have a good sized kitchen.

So don't the dining room/powder room visibility issues go away in C if you flip the closet/powder layout like this? Believe others suggested it upthread...

Here is my 21' long kitchen. Layout is different in terms of where kitchen and dining area are but you can see I have more than enough room.

Perimeter cabinets are 2' deep plus 4' aisle between island and perimeter plus a 42" deep island plus 5' between island and dining table plus a 42" dining table and 3' from dining table to sliders.

And of course just flip the powder room. Duh to me.

C is the most open and cleanest. I like that you can see through the house to the family room. C

@MBAK Are you leaning toward layout C? As I read through the comments on your thread, it seems like C is the plan you want to work with. There are plenty of good suggestions for the kitchen to help with your concerns in that area. That being said, I thought you would like an alternate option for your mudroom and powder room. You mentioned that you tend to be organized, so maybe having the mudroom bench exposed will work for you. Then, I thought tucking the powder bath behind the bench solves the Best In Show issue as brought up by @Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor.

Jess Jess I'm not sure that solves the "best in show" problem? People in the dining room will still have a clear view of people entering and leaving the bathroom door, they just won't be looking at the door per se. Personally I would not want the view from a formal dining room to be directly into a mud room area, no matter how tidy it is.

How often are you all hosting hushed dinner parties and staring at people's bathroom behaviors?? That seems like it should be a lower concern than the kitchen and dining functionality. IMO a powder room stuck almost anywhere will be fine, as long as you don't have to walk through a messy drop zone like a mudroom to get to it.

I like both B and C, but the only thing I wanted to add was that the weird bump out in B would be my favorite place in the house. I would create a back kitchen desk with a bank of windows, and love the feeling of a private tucked away place, plus that butlers pantry (maybe with coffee maker or beverage fridge?) is right behind me, so I can swivel to grab a drink or snack.

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B is my favorite. Definitely not A with the dining room so disconnected from the kitchen.

The flipped powder room is good.

Don‘t forget a window in the mudroom (and to move the door).