I thought I made that perfectly clear

and I don't want Myers lemons neither

I will be relocating to Washington D.C.

my current lemons

that's why they have to be developed I know it won't be easy I have to select the right ones from my eureka lemons I want true lemons not hybrids and no PT Genes and meyer lemons are not true lemons so I have develop what I want even if it goes against the odds it will have to spend the first winters indoors and then I I select the best trees that can handle the cold by seeds of the fruit and cuttings so I will have more trees for development

HOWARD Martin, have you figured out to make all your messages in one post yet? Have you figured out how to edit your posts?

Because you just made 7 separate posts within a short time span.

Maybe there's something making your interface in this forum difficult because you're using your phone?

There is no way regular lemon seeds are going to be able to survive outside in zone 6.

Not even if you planted a thousand of them.

What you would have to do is something like grow 1000 seedlings to a decent size, then plant them out in climate zone 9 during a cold winter, then see which ones do the best, and select the 2 best ones, grow out a 1000 seedlings from that, and then plant those in climate zone 8, and so on.

I think this is a strategy the Inca used to develop high altitude crops. But it takes a very long time, probably longer than a single person's lifespan.

I have tasted some poncirus hybrids that were not that bad. Most of the hybrids taste terrible, but there are some that are not too bad.

I really think that it could be possible for them to be bred to good tasting quality, but it would probably take several generations of breeding.

And there is a trade-off between good flavor and cold tolerance, so it would probably take a lot of breeding, decades probably.

I won't get too far off-topic, because I know HOWARD Martin absolutely refuses to entertain the idea of using Poncirus to to hybridize with regular citrus.

don't want meyer lemons because they are hybrid I want true lemons so I must develop what I want for true lemons and eureka is the most cold hardy I can get ahold of so I must push hard the first 2years inside and later put outside on the 3rd year and see which ones do the best and take cuttings and from seed to increase stock for future development even though it against the odds I know it will take time but impossible just a state of mind to me but I didn't say it was going to be easy

I know I shouldn't place another post so quickly but I'm also part Indian as well

This is going too far, I am gone forever,

the Inca are Indians as well

don't go Bob it is she stuck in the mud and didn't know that she was talking about an Indian culture nor did she know I was part Indian too

socalnolympia you know your talking about an Native American culture and I'm part Native American as well but you are telling me to give up forget that and I'm relocating to Washington D.C. ZONE 7 a and warrior never gives up

"I think this is a strategy the Inca used to develop high altitude crops. But it takes a very long time, probably longer than a single person's lifespan." That is the limited extent of SoCal's comment on Inca and/or Indians. Further, I'm positive SoCal has done extensively more reading on Inca Horticultural practices than you ever have. Howard, nobody cares about or is impressed by your genetic makeup. It gives you no special insight in growing using ancient practices. OK big woop your growing some supermarkets seedlings.....so am I. People try to help you here (I personally don't know why), you should try to take it.

I am so confused by this thread right now....

Ok, I bit! lol

I know that I will get an e-mial every time Howard posts . Once or a bunch of words in a paragraph I don't mind, but 6 e0mial alerts for 6 very short in the row one sentence posts drives me nuts, nothing against you Howard, just asking you to try to keep your post more on the ' normal' side.

Why is it that you are posting images of yourself too instead of your trees only? Just curious.

Howard , I have known Socal to be very helpful and I am sure that nothing bad was meant by that comment, that's not how I took it and I am part Indian too)

Travis, you are not alone.lol It is very confusing but thank God good people stick around no matter what and it makes me smile to see that, people like you, Steve, BOB....and many others.

Bob, you better not go away from this forum, maybe this thread, that I can understand)

I know what I want and I settle for nothing less than for what I want and that is how I am but without effort nothing more will be developed for more cold hardy true lemons not hybrids nor PT Genes but this can be done but nobody said it would be easy for me but I must try for it is a real challenge

my trees are too small to to look good

Travis in PHX(9b) don't be confused there just a matter of disagreement and how to get lemons to grow in colder climates outside

Look at your seedlings howard, they have not grown! They should be a foot tall after growing for a whole summer.

in clay they grow much slower plus inadequate nutrition for them

I'm no expert

but I know u trying to help me but yu guys are telling me to give up on the way I want things for me that battle cry

socalnolympia yu made me angry by telling me to give up growing and developing lemons for my climate in outside in the winter and don't know how to give up on what I want

No one wants to see you disappointed Howard because they care. There is nothing wrong with trying to experiment to see what you get. But they care enough to take the time to try to teach you that’s all. Nothing to be hurt or cry about. No one to discourage you from doing anything you want but if you come here posting these things you will get suggestions and info from experts and those that have been there and done that because that’s what this place is about.

but I have to try so the more cold true lemons can be developed I know it not going to be easy but it will take time . but I still don't want PTgenes nor meyer lemons for they are hybrid and I don't want hybrids I I want true lemons no hybrids for they don't taste like true lemons for give me if I seem wrong but for the determinate soul impossible is just a word with little to no meaning so for give me for knowing what I want and going after it regardless even if it seems hopeless

" socalnolympia yu made me angry by telling me to give up growing and developing lemons for my climate in outside in the winter and don't know how to give up on what I want "

HOWARD Martin, my intent wasn't to make you totally give up, but to realize how totally unrealistic your specific plan is.

Your plan might have a tiny chance of working if you were, say, in zone 8b or 9a. But you're not. You're in a climate zone several levels colder than that.

However, go ahead and try. Just realize that the odds of success are very low.

Over on the permies thread, there was a member who swore that many years ago they saw a lemon tree growing in the ground with fruit in Montana. Which seems difficult to believe, but I never like to discount anecdotal accounts like that.

Maybe they mistook some other type of tree with yellow fruits for a lemon tree, or maybe it might have been some other type of non-edible cold hardy citrus species or hybrid, or maybe it indeed was a lemon tree but it was in a suburban neighborhood in a spot where it was protected from cold, or maybe whoever was growing it covered it during the winter and used christmas string lights underneath to keep it from freezing.

but how long was it before they developed it to to handle Montana winters

I thought this was the type of forum to help develop cold hardy citrus not to discourage those who want to develop them without PT
Genes or hybrids for some people don't like hybrids . I'm sorry that you don't understand the need for some true lemons that can handle 40 below

just saying it unrealistic is to say give up my plan is realistic but it is a hard one and I already knew it wasn't going to be liked because it is different than most people u say 1 one in a 1000 to me that is still possible

Howard if you develop a citrus tree that can grow in the ground in New England , I’ll be the first to buy. That person wound probably be a millionaire.
For me that’s wishful thinking. It would be a lot easier for me to move south if I wanted it that bad since I know I will be never be able to plant one up here and after thousands of years no such thing. I’ll have to happy stuck with potted trees and ground planted ones in a protected greenhouse. Nice dream though )

Mike There will be citrus capable of growing in your area within 200 years. To late for me and you. That is if you believe in global warming.

Steve

but I need to push to develop some now

If you think a store quality lemon is growing in a field in Montana I have a bridge to sell.

bklyn Do you still own that 10 acre plot of dry land under the Brooklyn bridge or have you sold it.

Steve

at the moment I have no ground to drop anything

Meyermike(zone 6a Ma.) that is out of the question for me the development of more true lemons that can handle in the ground in in new England is going to hard I already knew that but don't say it can't be done don't want PT Gene's nor doing want meyer lemons because they not true lemons and they too sweet when it comes to lemons for me so have no choice but to develop whatI want even if I I will fail most of the time sorry that is something yu can't understand

ponicirusguy6b452xx they are no wanting me to Cross my lemons to yuzu or Ichang but they not true lemons and only true lemons will do for me and no substitutes just because it will be easier but for me those mentioned will not do for I want true lemons no others

Howard How do you eat /use your lemons.

Steve

I eat my lemons straight out of the peel and I squeeze my lemons fresh

ponicirusguy6b542xx I eat my lemons fresh and some times squeeze them straight into my coffee and Iwill have to start over with a new crop of supermarket lemons in Washington dc soon but they won't be out side until the third winter to hardened the trees

ponicirusguy6b452xx the thing nobody is listening to is I have no other access to lemons and the varieties yu all are mentioning I have no access to that is why have to work with and I know I have to push them and push them hard they don't seem to acknowledge that is all I I have to workwith because that is all I can get a hold of I have noaccess to yuzu nor ichang fruits nor many other varieties of lemons and for me wanting workwith what I can get a hold of yu all seem to be in areas where u have access to the other varieties where I don't have that access that why my lemon choices are what they are

bklyn citrus (ZONE 7 B) have no access to the other varieties yu all seem to mention and theres abig failure to recognize that

These threads are kind of entertaining and somewhat bizarre, I can’t stop reading them.

If you said you wanted to loose 20lbs I‘d say it’s tough but if you work at it you can get there.

If you said you wanted to be 4 inches taller I would say put your energy into something else because it’s not going to happen. You might get a little taller working on your posture maybe some back exercises but only 1/2” or so.

You certainly can grow lemons anywhere in the world if you keep them indoors.

People have been hybridizing citrus for centuries, I think all of the edible citrus is the result of hybrids but in all of that time, this is as far as it has come. A few more centuries who knows, maybe.

but the type of lemons they want me to Cross with what I got I just don't have accessto

James _J they tell me not to use decaying leaves As a growing medium but I'm having good results with it so am I wrong to use just decaying leaves for a medium for growing my lemons in

ponicirusguy6b452xx you know by using decaying leaves as soilless medium were breaking all the rules when it comes to soilless mediums it just doesn't fit the rules

I have been to impatient to grow citrus trees by the rules. I break them all and I am proud of it.

I'll print my first name to that.

Steve.

good because the decaying leaves have micronutrients and trace minerals that regular mediums don't and it is loose and drains well sence I'm a beginner I'm going to make some mistakes along the way maybe find mediums know one considers or thought possible but since have been using the decaying leaves now I had to transplant my best looking trees