Alpen are a good fiberglass high efficiency window. For a wood window, and what I have in my house, Loewen is what would recommend. They are great.

Marvin Ultimates all day unless you want to look into Inline or one of the other Canadian Fiberglass windows.

There are several good fiberglass windows out there. In wood, the two mentioned above are good as is Kolbe. You have a really crap example of the quality of what good vinyl looks like. If you aversion to vinyl is the "feel", definitely look at the fiberglass, composite, and wood options mentioned above.

Marvin Elevate or Essential fiberglass will give you less frame and more glass. Inline in SE MI is sold as Magic Windows with installation. If you include glass panes of two different thicknesses the noise reduction will be more elevated.

In your title you ask about triple pane windows and in your post you ask about noise reduction.

Are you considering triple pane windows because of their potential for noise reduction or are you primarily interested in them for improved energy performance.

Hi Oberon, my primary concern is noise reduction. Which brand and model would you use?

Although often touted as an improvement in noise reduction, triples may or may not be an improvement over dual pane windows in sound blocking performance depending primarily in the overall width of the airspace and to the glass used in the construction.

For example, a dual pane window made using two lites of 1/8" glass and a 1" airspace will have pretty much the same sound performance as will a triple made with 1/8" glass and two 1/2" airspaces. The extra lite in the center is inconsequential in this example.

As mentioned previously, having two panes of unequal thickness in a dual pane does help block unwanted sound from passing through your windows.

When the two lites of an IG unit are the same thickness they each allow sound waves at the resonant frequency of the glass sheet to pass with little propagation loss. This is known as coincidence dip.

Having two unequal thickness glass panes improves sound blocking performance because the different glass thicknesses resonate at different frequencies and attenuate the wavelength that passes easily through the other lite - nice and neat.

There is a simple formula for determining the coincidence dip frequency of different glass thicknesses: frequency = 12,500 / glass thickness.

Also you might consider laminated glass as an option. Laminated glass has a damping effect on sound. Basically the softer interlayer acts to absorb and diffuse the sound that passes through the glass.

I do not know IF it ever improved... but triplepane windows used to have much higher failure rate because of the weight...

with a quality modern window, the weight difference between dual and triple panes is a non-issue.

Triple pane will not be successful if the noise is coming through your walls due to a lack of proper insulation. Is the house frame or brick?

Framed house, even without insulation, will still have a higher STC than the window that are there now and likely any set of replacements (short of a dedicated STC class window).

An often under-discussed aspect of STC performance is air tightness. Two windows of equal construction materials (glass, frame, etc.) will have very different felt results with regards to sound attenuation if one of the two has a much higher air infiltration rate. A leaky window will leak noise as well.

The house is brick and I’ve had additional insulation retrofitted to all the exterior walls and interior walls to the mater suite.

For the pro’s in this feed... As mentioned above I’ll be replacing builder grade/builder installed windows. To achieve the best result, is it recommended to do a full frame replacement of is an inset sufficient? I have a few local Marvin dealers coming to the house to complete a field measure later this week. Quite anxious about this as it’s a large investment.

In the case of the removal of a new construction vinyl window, everything is "full frame" as a default. There is no, what we classically think of "insert", option available.

What is the exterior of the home (i.e. cladding...brick, siding, etc.)?

Wow [@Windows on Washington Ltd], do you have any suggestions for window lines that may have lower STC? I am also planning another build about a mile from the rail, with 2"+ [Mineral Wool/XPS] continues insulation all the way into roof - footers... Just wanted to see if lines with better STC available?

I am also a couple miles from a rail yard and I swear I can hear/feel them idling when it gets at or below 50 degrees. They will not shut off due to the engines. I was recommended marvin ultimate with laminated glass. The highest rating casement window comes in above 40 STC. I am hoping that will dramatically cut the noise from the junky Jeld Wens

Laminated glass is a great option and is usually an option for nearly all decent sized manufacturers.

The core in laminated glass should be chosen for acoustic benefits. This link to a glass manufacturer outlines the info.- Here for Pilkington Optiphon™ and Insulight™

Dan, what residential window manufacturer offers Pilkington Glass?

Good question to bring up with a window manufacturer you're considering. Other glass manufacturers like Guardian here, vaguely discuss laminated glass for sound control. I'd have to track down who is using what. And what product has the better specs. It likely may be a feature you'll have to request a custom quote on. Because this is technical and difficult to quantify it can be useful to know as much as possible. That means homework and chats with tech support.

With a couple very minor exceptions all PVB laminated glass in North America is manufactured using either Saflex or Trosifol interlayer. Both of these interlayers are available in a sound control vinyl as a standard offering.

From the laminators perspective, there is no difference in manufacturing sound control vinyl versus standard PVB. The process is identical.

In general Marvin, Pella, Andersen, Milgard are all very experienced ordering sound control vinyl from the laminated glass manufacturer, so there shouldn't be any problems ordering it from them, however there is always the risk of that guy somewhere in the ordering process who just doesn't get it.

Sound control PVB offers significant performance advantage over other options in the 1000-3000hz range. It also does well above 200hz and over 3000hz, but under 200hz the performance of sound control vinyl drops off a good bit and is not as good as standard PVB.

That can make a difference depending on what noises you are primarily interested in blocking.

The noise I’m interested in blocking is lower frequency and is generated by local industrial facilities and a train yard. In the winter months, the dozens of trains idle 24/7 and it creates a deep rumble sound throughout the area. My neighbors do not seem to be affected by this and when I’ve complained about how noisy it is every night they look confused.

I should note the train yard is approx 2.5 miles away but the steel stamping facility is approx 3/4 miles away.

Much more to blocking low frequency noise than just windows. In fact you could conceivable add the best sound attenuation windows and be no better off. What else are you planning to mitigate the sound?

Here is the thing, none of my neighbors are affected in the same way. I’ve had additional insulation injected into all exterior walls and had the master suite interior walls filled. I also planned to significantly reduce the size of two of the windows in the master suite area.

Windows the meet EU codes will generally do a much better job with both sound abatement and energy efficiency than US windows. Some to consider include:

- Intus

- Optiwin

- Zola

- Alphawin

We went with Kohltech triple-pane windows primarily to ward off the cold here in Maine. The noise reduction, which we did not consider prior to installation, was an added benefit. For us, it reduced exterior noise considerably and the windows have held up very well. Good luck

Depends what material you want.

Following...

Help me out Oberon.

"the only dissimilar glass thickness came in at 20"

4,5 and 6 are dissimilar - right?

Or were you meaning - dissimilar, unlaminated?

When I look, traffic noise peaks at 1000 hz - but is the truly bothersome noise - booming exhaust - closer to 100?

great info Oberon.

You collected dB attenuation measurement data and you were limited by what has been tested. Were these tests from one source? Do you have a citation(s)?

David Carey,

"the only dissimilar glass thickness came in at 20"

4,5 and 6 are dissimilar - right?

Or were you meaning - dissimilar, unlaminated?

Good catch, I was referencing asymmetrical IG units, not to include laminated glass. Laminated had quite a few asymmetrical IG builds. I am going to fix that in the original post.

When I look, traffic noise peaks at 1000 hz - but is the truly bothersome noise - booming exhaust - closer to 100?

As I mentioned previously, my decision to use the four lowest frequencies was completely arbitrary, but was based on a three primary considerations. 1st) I wanted to start with the lowest measurement available. 2nd) I wanted to keep it within 100hz from top to bottom because a lot can happen within a 100hz range. 3rd) with 28 different make-ups involved I wanted to keep it from becoming overly cumbersome.

And clearly attempting a trend analysis up to 1000hz or more based on only four data points within the 100hz range is probably futile, so my thoughts on sound blocking at lower frequencies should be limited to the referenced data and not used to extrapolate up the chain.

dan,

The STC data came from the Saflex Acoustic Guide

amcmacken615

Lots of words that don't really address your original question directly.

What have your neighbors done that seems to block the noise that is driving you crazy? Or are they simply less sensitive to the noise than you are?

The companies that you mentioned offer between them wood, fiberglass, wood/vinyl composite, vinyl options. Are you open to different window sash/frame materials? And are you dead set on replacement or would upgrading your current windows be an option that you would consider?

And the really big question....how's the budget? Depending on your needs these things can get very pricy.

Thanks Oberon. Another consideration could be direction of the noise. You may need abatement for less than all sides/windows.

dan,

I totally agree that there are environmental considerations that can't be ignored and it is possible that part of the problem is the home's orientation in relation to neighbors. Heck even a well placed patch of trees down the block could be affecting the difference in noise intensity. Those all need to be taken into account.

Also the numbers that I posted are for glass-only and they will change depending on the quality of the window manufacture and especially the quality of the install.

My thought was all else being equal, is there a potential advantage at low frequency to different glass make-ups?

I had the first window company visit the house yesterday. He referred to my existing “single strength” windows as “$3.00 windows” and said the installation was awful, it’s no wonder I hear so much outdoor noise. He feels the basic glass option from Marvin, with proper installation, will make a noticeable difference but based on my comments would recommend their sound reducing option. The second company I’m meeting with later this week was recommended to me by the local architectural rep from Marvin. Unfortunately, I’m already not feeling solid about this company. The salesman didn’t follow up with me during our first interaction and when I mentioned it, he placed blame on the Marvin rep. Also, when I told him I would be comparing him against other companies he started with the scare tactics about most local companies don’t have certified installers. Seems like a fast talker to me, which put me off. Will have more details about the windows later this week.

Received word from contractor today regarding the “premium stc rated glass” from Marvin. Stated it was hurricane glass and that it was an additional $450 per window. Seems excessive to me when the stc rating would only increase to 34 stc and 28 oitc. This is for the Elevate series.

A solid week and 0 of the 4 companies I’ve met with have given me a quote. Seems a little odd to me.

An STC 34 / OITC 28 seems low when using "hurricane" laminated glass so I suspect that using the thicker laminated glass might have resulted in a narrow IG airspace due to the width of the glazing channel. This may explain the lower overall STC/OITC numbers.

Based on the measurement data that I posted previously, I suspect that the overall glass make-up with narrow airspace might actually be better than some higher overall STC options at lower frequency ranges but that's really no more than a swag (scientific wild-ass guess), so while i am very curious to test it...paying an additional $450 per window for a "maybe?" is probably worth looking at very carefully.

This looks to be a journey. I would remain patient and continue to move forward toward your long-term goal. You'll get to a point where you'll have a good choice.

After many months of searching, I have put down a deposit on Marvin Elevate casement windows with their “STC” glass. Installer was out to the house today to take final measurements.

Appreciate all of the feedback given to me in this thread. I’ll report back once the installation is complete.

Marvin windows have been installed. No real improvements in sound control, a small amount maybe. Seems I didn’t have the best installer as you can see from the attached photos, this is a couple examples of his workmanship. My question for the experts, is this door stop molding required? I am being told you must have this type of molding when replacing windows, but I haven’t seen much of it when searching online. I was also told that the gaps between the trim and the drywall is due to my drywall not being square, yet there were no gaps before on the original windows/trim. The company is sending out a new installer to fix this so I’m assuming it’s wrong but I expressed my disappointment in the look of the trim and they stated they could do a square trim in the color black which will be more streamline. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Amy