Bosch is on backorder & we need a dishwasher! What to do??
pittsburrito
3 years ago
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aelf
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Need help picking Bosch dishwasher - have to decide today!!
Comments (9)We just bought the kitchenaid kdte254ess. they were slightly less than the boschs with roughly the same features and both made or at least assembled in the US. The "water softener" feature--we use a bit of citric acid with each load which does the same thing--keep the hardness deposits off. The racks on the kitchenaid seemed a little sturdier than the bosch. The water softener feature I got the impression (may be wrong!) required special packets of salt, which translates to $$, so we're going to stick with the pinch of citric acid (cheap!) The KA were so similar to the Bosch they almost seemed made by the same company, just slightly different look and features. Only the highest-model Bosch at around $2K is still made in Germany. I think the big difference is that KA has a heated dry feature and Bosch does not. I doubt we will ever use the heated dry feature, though. We like to save energy and our climate is so dry the dishes always are dry. The KA was rated 39 db instead of the Bosch 42 - 44 db. the next KA model up had the spinning (orbital) water spray feature and the delay was 1-24 hours vs. 1, 2, 4 hours only. (For $400 more, not worth it to us.)The display is slightly different--lights under each option vs. one display panel. the model higher had a "microfilter" meaning it did not have to be checked for particle material. there was also this special mini-spray thing in each corner of the top rack to spray stained items like coffee cups. One more thing to break. We don't have a lot of problems with cleaning the filters so skipped that. Our old bosch went out after 16 years, a decent life time, the water pump died, expensive repair so time to replace it. The delay button (which we use because we have time-of-use electrical rates) wasn't working any more, and we figured we got 16 years out of the machine, time for a new one. My neighbor just got a Bosch, one thing is her door latch--the plastic part where you put your fingers and lift up snapped the very first time she used it! She said it didn't clean quite as well as the old one, but that always varies, doesn't it? What you cook, how dirty the dishes are going in, etc. Bosch came out and fixed the broken plastic bit, of course it was under warranty but still be aware of that. Can't comment on the KA yet, it won't arrive until tomorrow. The various models of both KA and Bosch--once you get the same basic mechanism, motor and so forth, the rest is just additional features--more to break and more to repair. The one feature we use is delay start. Bosch had that too....See MoreNeed assistance on sizing for 800 Series Bosch Panel Ready Dishwasher
Comments (4)mholtz, I went through this install process, and learned a few things. I'll show you what I did and hopefully it will make it easier for you. First, the easy part... 1/8" at the sides should be fine. I used about 3/16" but it would work with 1/8". The Bosch panel template assumes a few things. First, it assumes that you will mount the dishwasher as high as it will go, up against the bottom of the counter. And that you will mount the wood panel flush with the top of the dishwasher door. If you install it like that with a door taller than 30 1/8", it will bind at the bottom baseboard when opening. The bottom is where the problem with the taller panel occurs. However, for best appearance you want your panel taller, to match the bottom and top of the adjacent doors and/or drawer stacks, with a consistent gap under the counter edge. You should get your panel made to that height, ignoring the 30 1/8" limit. To make this work however, you need to mount the dishwasher lower, with the wood panel higher than the door, to allow it to fully open. It's tough to explain in words, so I made a couple of diagrams. Example 1 is following the template directions, but a taller door binds at the bottom. Example 2 is what I ended up doing to accommodate the taller panel....See MoreReplace Low decibel Bosch dishwasher with Bosch or Miele?
Comments (11)Like Heather, I, too, was surprised to find smaller price differentials between the two brands. I happened to be shopping for a replacement DW a couple of months ago. This was just as Bosch and Miele were releasing their updated model lines. I mention this because (at least, in my area), there have been deals offered on warehouse stock and floor models which may be worth considering, particularly if you are interested in a Miele. For your question about potential differences in the quality of the interiors of the two brands' models, I would say that Bosch models I saw all had nylon racks and parts much as the Miele models did. Miele's racks are designed to provide loading flexibility with few movable tines, etc. The new Bosch models' racks seemed to be a bit lighter in construction and seemed to have even more moving parts than they used to have. Because of that, I second homepro's recommendation to take some of your dishes and etc. down to a showroom (or showrooms). See how your things fit and whether you like or dislike the loading patterns for the models you are considering. Like 3katz4m3, I found I slightly preferred the Bosch models' layout. But that is very much personal preference so YMMV. You mentioned that your 8 y.o Bosch had developed leaks and asked if the latest Bosch models are more durable than your old one. That seems hard to judge. My original bottom-of-the-line Bosch DW lasted from the 1990s to 2011 with the only work being replacement of a worn latching release spring for the detergent dispenser. I bought a new DW when the control panel burned out and replacements were no longer available. The new DW was a Bosch 500 series model. It developed cracks in the plastic pump and sump housings this March just after the five year warranty ran out. The parts assemblies seemed very expensive and the replacement process seemed (to me) onerous enough to make me look at a new DW. I can say that, to my eye when shopping back in March, the new Bosch models did look better to work on than the ones from five to eight years ago. Whether that makes them more durable is hard to say. Miele DWs have a longstanding reputation for being built like tanks and there is the company's vaunted mantra of "designed for a 20 year useful life" or "7500 cycles." That is an admirable yet aspirational expectation; Miele's extended warranty is only five years. (Canadians can sometimes get 10 year extended warranties from Miele.) Some posters here have had Miele dishwashers last for a long time, but some have not. An additional consideration from previous threads on Miele DWs is that you probably will not need service, but if you do need service, you want to be sure that Miele factory service is readily available where you live as opposed to dealer coverage which may not be as good. One small thing of possible note: if you want a smudge resistant stainless steel finish on the exterior, Miele DWs had it and the Bosch ones did not, at least when I was shopping in March. On cleaning performance, I cannot speak directly to the abilities of the current Benchmark and 800 series because I bought one of the new 300 series models. What I can say is that the new 3-rack 300 series model takes about 15% longer to run a full cycle than its 500-series predecessor did, but does an excellent job. One difference between the machines is what Bosch calls a "Clean 30" cycle. So far, for me, the new DW's "Clean 30" cycle (which I now use frequently) has worked as well as the standard long cycles on its predecessor. ETA: Although the cycle is called "Clean 30," the timer display always shows it taking 38 to 40 minutes on my unit. I suspect you would see the same with the new Benchmark and 800 series models. As best I could tell when shopping, the higher level Bosch models offered those and additional cycle choices, additional rack flexibility, and, as Heather noted, there were a couple of the more expensive models that also offer built-in water softeners. Before starting out on my shopping trip, I had read some older posts here saying that Miele offered an automatic water softening system. Don't know if they still do that but the Miele model I saw when shopping (a "Crystal") required testing water hardness and programming the water softener much as the Bosch ones do. If memory serves, the price of that Miele was less than the Bosch Benchmark with the water softener (at least on that day). It also offered the end-of-cycle auto-door-opening feature which enhances final drying. I passed on it mainly because the cost was over my planned budget and our town's water is not all that hard. And a final FWIW : even the new Bosch 300 series models are rated at 44 dBA for quietness. Some of the Benchmark models are even less. The low-to mid range Miele models that I looked at were rated at 46 dBA as was my previous Bosch 500 model. The 2 dBA difference seems negligible to me....See MoreNeed feedback on Bosch dishwashers with AquaStop leak protection
Comments (5)>>>"Can't believe they don't ALL offer this feature..... Does anyone have personal experience with the 800 series and this feature??"<<< There are several brands that offer an enclosing tub and leak protection/detection systems. From shopping for a new DW last year, I recall that, besides Bosch's "AquaStop" and the system on musicgalnd's Asko, all of the Miele DWs have a similar system, and I think that GE models have something called "floor protection." There may be others. It will be buried in features lists somewhere if they have it. My personal experience is with Bosch dishwashers, and specifically with older 500 models and on the new 300 series models. However, the AquaStop is the same as on the current 800 series. It works very well. A friend's 500 series model --- which was about ten years old, IIRC --- stopped running and flashed an error code. I pulled the DW and found something less than 1/8th" of water had collected in the tub that formed the outside base of the unit. That water triggered the protection system. The water protecting tub/base looked like it could hold up to 3 inches of water, Sopped up the water with a towel and the unit would run for several cycles before enough leaked to trigger the protection system. (Running it was how I found the leak which was in a cracked pump housing.) Occasional mopping the containment tub bought time for shopping for repairs or replacement. All leakage was contained and there was none on the floors. My own experience was with a new 300 series model which I bought for my house in early 2017. My unit (from the first production run, I think) had a leaky water inlet solenoid or housing. Might have been shipping and handling damage or possibly a defective part. (That can happen with all products from all manufacturers.) Again, the AquaStop shut off the water supply and the tub totally contained the dribbling leakage. I live in a rural area, so it took some doing for Bosch customer service to find a warranty servicer for my area --- turned out to be somebody nearby who was their factory rep. (Apparently, the customer service database was a bit goofy for my area.) Anyway, the actual repair took maybe 5 minutes with a $9 part. (I could have done it myself, but Bosch was paying for everything and i wanted to keep the warranty in force.) No damage to my kitchen's wood floors One thing to keep in mind with leak protection systems: they protect against leaks from the dishwasher itself. They will not help if you have a leak in the supply hose or the plumbing to which the hose connects. Best to install a new, good-quality supply hose when you replace the dishwasher. You probably will need a new supply hose, anyway. That's because current dishwashers use a 3/4" hose-thread fitting on the inlet instead of the 3/8" brass compression fitting that was used with older dishwashers. In theory, you could buy a 3/8 to 3/4 adapter and re-use the old supply hose, but I strongly recommend just getting a new hose for peace of mind. With your 25-year old set-up, I also would watch the supply-line valve for the take-off at the hot water line and make sure leaks don't develop there after disconnecting the old hose and installing the new one. This is from experience. I originally installed my valve about 20 years ago when I installed my first Bosch DW. Sure enough, that little side valve started leaking out the handle when I turned it back on after connecting the new supply hose for the new DW. >>>"The tines on the [Bosch & Asko?] racks are really close together though. It works great for Corelle because you can really pack in the dishes. Not sure how the narrow tines would work with stoneware dishes (ie Fiesta)."<<< There is a lot of loading flexibility in the current Bosch models including options for narrow and not so-narrow tine spacing. My china is old restaurant supply Buffalo China dishware. The pieces are as large, thick and heavy as a lot of stoneware. I have had no problems loading them in my current or previous Bosch DW. However, YMMV. Best to take a box of your stuff down to your appliance seller to be sure that things will fit to your satisfaction....See Moreterpom
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