I answered in the other thread as I couldn't find this one right away.

Thanks Jerry. I passed the information to my wife (info is greatly appreciated) since she is the cook and my function is merely to test her products! We have to replace what is in our house and for now are struggling. We keep reminding ourselves.. it is an oven.

But, I do try to see possibilities. Covid has taught us we really can go 8 months without eating out, and perhaps we have never explored what an oven can do. The Thermadors with rotisserie come to mind (though we can buy really nicely prepared rotisserie chickens for about $6). But I'm having trouble loving Thermador (they seem like fairly expensive dressed up Bosch ovens). Wife fell in love with the Wolf M (except for price) but the blue flaking stories make that a bit spooky.

So we are left with buying something nice but affordable (Cafe, Bosch, Electrolux,Monogram), or buying something nicer that hopefully will last beyond 10 years. I had found a decently nice looking Fulger Milano Sophia double oven ($4600) but wife simply said No.

The Thermador looked nice but at $7K it demanded we look at the Bluestar. We do like it is made in USA and not a mass produced product. The built in stone is unique and is something we definitely will use (unlike the rotisserie which most likely will see little use). Wife is ok with doing the cooking.. she was actually a little offended at the Wolf automated programs.

Your feedback makes me feel better about Bluestar. Last thing I want is to spend a small fortune on an oven and then have issues and not be able to get them resolved! That was why I punted on the Fulger so quickly!!

Davis Jones -- During the remodel, the oven was the second most expensive appliance. The Rachiele copper sink came in first. If you don't have one, consider getting one. Once we got the oven, we went out to eat about twice a year. One thing I forgot to mention is that the french doors think you're working in a restaurant. They require a bit of force to close--you don't quite slam them, but fast as if there were customers waiting is how it's done (hands on each door, close both together). Opening is easy, pull on either handle or both.

The French doors look really nice but the way our kitchen is made they won't work. We are out of the remodel mode. Our previous house (that I hope closes tomorrow) was a series of remodels. I believe we rebuilt the house inside and out but all the effort took its toll. When we bought this home in December the goal was to do nothing to it. Then our double oven decided to break in such a way as to make repair quite difficult. We will have to do some minor work to make the new oven look nice due to the existing opening being somewhat larger than needed.

I remain doubtful that we'll use the oven as much as you are. Maybe but doubtful. We grill a lot and while my wife enjoys cooking she is working full time. Sort of puts a damper on wanting to cook extensively each night.

Your Bluestar sounds like it is built well and that it works well. We need to over the weekend make up our minds. It is after all an oven :) But when I read about Wolf and the enamel problems without a fix.. think that would really rub some salt. I do realize it seems most appliances are designed for short lifetimes and planned obsolescence. And again if we are spending $7K + on an oven I do hope it will last 10+ years!

I had to make a couple of changes during the remodel to make the french doors work. I purchased the single oven because 1) There wasn't a double oven at the time. 2) Bending over when cooking is no fun. (I have an induction cooktop, not a range.) 3) The oven is large enough that I don't have any need for a double. My thought is that a double oven is useful if you throw a lot of parties, otherwise not so much, and additional drawer space is always welcome. Originally, there was a double oven, but it was forty years old and barely worked (not that I used it more than a couple of times).

I would not do a double oven now if the home did not already have one installed. We will have to have a small custom stainless piece made because we have a 53 inch opening. Just trying to avoid anything remotely major in terms of remodels. Did that to no end at our previous house and seriously not going there now. this oven purchase was not planned but parts broken for the existing one are no longer made. thus, we'll buy a double again even though it won't get overly taxed.

I found one double oven that would have fit pretty well but spousal unit nixed it and after talking to someone who sells it I agreed to nixing it. Everything else will require a little retrofitting but nothing terribly painful I don't think. Am thankful our existing opening is too large.

Think we need to inhale and decide how big an investment into an oven we want to make. I'm ok with the price as long as it lasts and performs well. of course, those are unknowns until you know and then it's too late! But does sound like you are enjoying your Bluestar! In our other home we had a really nice Capital Culinarian rangetop and we are getting used to life without it. Miss the open burners. Someday we may replace the current cooktop with a Bluestar. Will see!

I'm really enjoying cooking on the induction cooktop. I wouldn't ever go back to gas. Bluestar didn't have theirs out in 2017, so I have a Wolf.

The home we bought had a sealed burner Fisher and Paykel cooktop installed (DCS). It works. When/if time comes to do something different we will be restricted to what will fit in the cut out. So induction would be a possibility though my wife likes gas. means my 49% of the vote will be for..... :) Induction makes a lot of sense though I do prefer knobs versus touch panels. Luckily, what we currently have is working and it works!

The double oven though is broken with the lower door extended and it cannot be put back up. Hinge completely seized and the part is no longer made. It could be machined but we really did not care for the oven to begin with. But it is a tripping hazard now. Covid will likely slow down the delivery of the replacement as well. Now, if I can get my home CEO to decide which oven I want :)

The nice things about induction are that it's as controllable as gas, no poisonous fumes, the kitchen stays cooler, and much less energy is used. I fully agree with you about the knobs. Actually a touch screen would be fine if it was separate from the cooking surface (for example, mounted to the hood).

I like the idea of induction albeit at the cost of replacing some cookware and also more internal parts to break. My wife just says NO... prefers gas. Since she does more of the cooking I think she deserves the say. I would still prefer knobs.

I do have a question on the Bluestar oven. They advertise having a 5000 watt infra red broiler (on their gas models they advertise the infra red in terms of temperature). We revisited the nearest Bluestar dealer Saturday and looked again at their double oven. looks wise it seems quite nice. That said, the broiler appeared to be a standard 8 pass design. Nobody in the store could answer the technical question about the broiler so curious about their infra red spec and seeing what looks like an 8 pass normal broiler design.

I was told to expect 6 to 8 weeks should we order one.

Davis Jones -- I don't know the technical details of the broiler, but from my actual use, you put the items to be broiled on the middle rack and use the low setting. I'd guess the high setting is only for things such as creme brulee where it emulates the blow torch.

Thx... I'm not that hung up on it but do like knowing what is what. We have a weber gas grill that has a nice infra red broiler and we used to do rotisserie chickens with it. When I read the Bluestar oven had an infra red broiler I perked up as they tend to, from my experience, broadcast the heat a bit more evenly and hotter if desired (searing steaks for example). I suspect the broiler is the same type as seen in other electric ovens and the term "infra red" may being used with some liberties but thought I would ask. I did not see anything that looked like the infra red I was accustomed to!

Davis Jones -- I burnt a few things before I learned that this was a really powerful broiler :-)

There does come a point where heat is heat :) In general I prefer infra red broilers (of the type I am used to anyway) and was curious about what Bluestar is referring to as infra red since it looks like most standard broilers.

We are going to have to make up our minds this week. The price of double oven bluestars, wolfs, etc does make me pause. It is an oven and given past history I'm not sure we can justify the price. Flip side is with better equipment perhaps use will increase!

Davis Jones -- I certainly use mine a lot.

That's part of the equation... how much usage. In the past oven usage has not been extremely high compared to rangetop and grill (neither of us eat sugary foods for example). but, there is a possibility with a better oven we might see more possibilities, etc. For me the thing I keep hearing repeatedly is the average life expectancy for most devices is under 10 years (Wolf claims designed for 20). One would think that larger manufacturers could perhaps better guarantee longevity of parts, but we know that is not true, either.

The Bluestar double oven looks nicely made though, but at roughly $8K it gets my attention. If we were doing a single oven it would certainly look less "gulp" as such. But, a double oven it has to be. The Wolf is about $700 more. The comparable Thermador is about $1000 less. None are exactly cheap.

We ruled out the GE products due to their new ownership in China though their price point may be more suited to our needs. Could not see an Electrolux (and understand since they bought Frigidaire their quality may have declined). Neither of us liked the Bosch ovens all that well. So it quickly turns back to the more expensive ovens.

Yeah, I didn't have much luck looking at the lower priced ovens either. Once you've committed to spending that kind of money, a few hundred more or less doesn't make a great deal of difference. I didn't feel to bad about spending the money on the oven because I spent more money on the sink. And it doesn't take all that many times when you cook rather than dining out before it pays for itself.

I rationalize all the time :) In general though I have too many hobbies and none are cheap. Cooking isn't my hobby but my wife is a good cook and she enjoys cooking when she has time. As I have gotten older I've started seeking quality where I can (buy once versus twice) and from there the rationalizing begins. I'm not wealthy now but I am mostly ok.. but I grew up very poor and fear that sometimes sticks. This one is a dilemma though because there is no clear guarantee to anything lasting. Seems companies discontinue parts, etc sooner than later and with all the digital controls in things you just "know". That was one advantage the Capital Culinarian rangetop we had in our previous house had. Very simple basic parts, no electronics. It simply worked.

I do have concerns with seeing touchscreens in wall ovens. Lot of heat up there and touchscreens in general dislike heat (unless designed for that).

Right now I feel she will lean toward the Bluestar. The Wolf costs more and has features she does not care about. The Thermador has nice fit and finish but on the inside seems to be the same oven as the Bosch (in terms of how it cooks). The Fulgor Milano that i found is priced nicely and on the surface appears well made. But just has the feel if you buy it watch out from perspective of getting long term service and parts. And I doubt my wife will want it because of that.

The good news is the Bluestar looks to be nicely made :)

I actually removed the cover when I got it just to see, and there is one small board that includes the display, so if it should fail, it should be simple to replace (other than actually moving the oven out of the wall so the cover can be removed).

It would be tempting to buy one as a spare for 10 years down the road if it were to fail. I like knowing there isn't much inside in the way of boards, etc. That is a big plus!

The ones that worry me most are the ovens that try to cook for you and have wireless connections. Lots to go wrong--and it missed the fun of cooking.

We had decided to go with the Bluestar double oven and just learned of an important specification..... the unit weighs 690 pounds!

Now I am all for things being built well, and out of substance, and Bluestar certainly builds this thing out of "something". But it does add some complexity.

We did not build the house we are currently living in and know nothing about the cabinets, who built them, etc. Our current double oven weighs 454 pounds, so we know the cabinets can hold substantial weight. But not certain we can know if they can hold 700 pounds. It also gets a lot more complicated for getting the oven into our home. There is some elevation to deal with, and 700 pounds is a different animal. This may force us to reconsider.... dang.

Are you positive that's not the shipping weight--includes pallet, etc. Two people can easily pick up the single oven, but stated weight is only doable by two strong people (300 lbs or so).

I was first given the weight by the place we are going to buy from. Once I had that I contacted Bluestar and they confirmed it. Neither said shipping weight. Most double ovens I have looked at range from 300 pounds to about 440, so I was shocked to hear almost 700. I will say seeing it in person it does appear to be built.. and now the weight confirms that.

But, it is a concern at this point. Moving something that heavy changes the landscape, and having to go up and incline then 2 steps and then another step to get into the house sounds like a recipe for a hurt person, a hurt house, or both! Course, moving a 450 pound oven is not exactly light!

The reason I'm asking is that the weight I was given was substantially heavier than the actual oven. The ship these things really well packed. My guess is that the single oven weighs maybe 175-225 lbs without packing material.

I'll ask.. if it can lose some weight I won't argue!

Also make sure they didn't quote you the gas version's weight. It's substantially heavier.

Will ask.. I did specifically ask both parties about double electric. Bluestar does not make the weight specification available online, least not that I could find. I was shocked when told 690 pounds though.

You might also ask if they ship it in two pieces.

If the total weight is actually 690 pounds I'll go with a different oven. I don't know the history of this house, who built the cabinets and how they were built, and so on. The current oven is broken with lower oven door fully down and that makes looking under even more difficult.

We did so many renovations at our previous home (and I can assure you did not come close to getting the money back!) that when we moved my wife and I both said "no more". Where we live in most ways is an improvement from the former home. So short story long, I don't want to get into any cabinet teardowns or modifications. i know i'll have to have a stainless steel trim piece to go beneath the new oven when done.

If it were 490 pounds I would take the chance given our current oven is 454 pounds. The cabinets might well hold 690 but that would be a really bad bad thing if they didn't!

I don't know if the double ovens come apart for shipping or not. I would have guessed they were a single unit with 2 ovens built together in one chassis. Anyway, hope to get some clarification on the weight by early next week given the holiday. It is an attractive oven.

I did confirm they fibbed a bit about the broiler being infra red. Usually, IR implies a ceramic broiler, and the Bluestar has an 8 pass tubular broiler. They told me it did put out some infra red radiations. It appears to be quite powerful regardless. Will see! The devil is always in the details.

The Wolf M weighs in the 400 pound zone.. most double ovens I looked at are in the 300-360 pound range, and lesser expensive ones are just under 300 pounds. Seeing 690 floored me!

I wanted to leave a follow up as often when I dig through chains the original person never leaves a conclusion! I did verify the Bluestar double oven weighs 650 pounds. The long and short of it is I have no idea how much weight our cabinets will support. We didn't build this house, and there's no information about who built them (12 years ago). We also need to install a whole house generator and ultimately we decided not to buy the Bluestar. It looks to be a very nice oven , but $9000 (with tax and installation) and the weight were just too much to overcome. We have decided to take a risk and buy a Fulgor Milano Sofia double oven. It is just over half the price of the Bluestar. Still not cheap by any stretch but a lot less painful. If we used ovens more than we do and so forth. I am a bit nervous about the brand but I can find horror stories posted about nearly every oven on the market. Time will be the judge on this one!

You pays your money and you takes your choice. I've done that many times. After you've had some experience with your new oven, I'm sure there will be lots of folks interested.

Hope it has a happy ending :) They seem to be trying to get a foothold into the US market. 2 year warranty as well. I was able to see one of their ranges which has the same electric oven as the wall oven. Things are made very nicely but of course that is cosmetics. Darn thing needs to heat and heat evenly :)

We should have it installed by 2nd week in October so I can share back then. Thanks for all your help with the Bluestar information. Very appreciated. My wife loved the Bluestar. But living in the mountains where power losses are frequent (4 times in 9 months already) the savings will pay for half the generator!

That Fulgor oven is gorgeous and would LOVE to hear how you like it.

I looked at the Fulgor Milano website and their appliances are beautiful with great features and solidly built. No prices listed on their website, however. The reviews I could find on-line are favorable.

I keyed in my zipcode to locate a dealer near me and there are none which is somewhat surprising since I live in a major metropolitan area. Maybe they just entered the US market.

I would also be interested in hearing how you like your Fulgor Milano oven.

Jennie.... I'll post our impressions when it is installed. I was able to see a range of theirs in person and it was well made in terms of fit and finish. It was not powered though. However pretty it looks, the bottom line is does it heat up well, and not malfunction! Little nervous regarding the lack of name recognition though they do have a history of making ovens in Italy. Hoping for installation by mid October.

Arch Notice... I completed the online web support form from Fulgor and they quickly put me in contact with the Southeastern distributors who were equally fast responding to my questions and getting me in contact with places who could sell the product. Their responses made me feel better. I do think Fulgor is trying to gain a bigger US presence (has to be a crowded market). They make their ovens but do not make their refrigerators or microwaves, least that is my understanding.

Price wise for the Sofia double oven I think the MAP price is $4999. I think it is up to each individual store to sell at or under that price. So, they are not cheap, but they are significantly less than a Wolf or Thermador Pro model, or the Bluestar we were looking at.. We just had to stop the bleeding though. With installation charges, taxes and having to put in a trim kit to cover the extra space we'll end up with, this seemed a reasonable solution.

As long as it works :) They do have a 2 year warranty though. And I can say the fit and finish was superb.

Just a bump... we are still waiting for the Fulgor Milano to arrive at our dealer. At the time we ordered the unit I was under the impression they had several available in the US. That turned into a quick backorder situation. Latest word is it may arrive the first week in November so we are hoping to have it before Turkey Day. I will post more once it gets here. I have read numerous threads about things only to see there is not an ending! Just did not want anyone to think I wasn't going to finish the story! Waiting for the generator to get here as well :)

An interesting journey :) We just enjoyed our Thanksgiving Turkey... cooked on our gas grill! It actually came out pretty decent all things considered!

We nearly punted the Fulgor order and was considering buying online, something I really wanted to avoid. It seemed the distributor was simply kicking the can down the road. Presently, we do have an anticipated date of arrival (approximately December 3 into the distributor's hands and the week after for our appliance store.

I won't believe any of this until it proves true though. But, I wanted to bump the thread to say it has not yet arrived and I will post as soon as it is installed. Hoping we can use an oven for our Christmas meal!

Thanks for the updates!

I was going to stat another thread, but given it is getting late, etc. will just excuse my own laziness and post here.

We were able to get the Fulgor Milano Sofia 30 inch double wall oven installed in early December without any real hiccups. I made one small mistake.. had I realized just how small the extra opening below the oven was going to be I would have ordered a piece of maple wood to use as a filler, and then stained to match as closely as I could. That is on me though. I was going to have a stainless trim piece made, but the piece is so small AND the oven was no flush mounted. The bare piece of pine wood is not really noticeable and eventually I will try to stain match it. The Fulgor CAN be flush mounted if desired but that would have required the opening to be further cut open.

Thus far we are happy with the oven. The soft close doors are a nice touch. The fans are not overly loud when running. The glass doors never get hot regardless of oven temperature or heating duration. On fast preheat it reached 350 degrees in about 8 minutes.

This year we cooked our Thanksgiving turkey on our gas grill, so having an oven again is a luxury! We've been cooking pizzas in it via a pizza stone, and thuis far that has also worked very well. I must be in love because the other night I made something I had not made in eons.. tater au gratin from a betty Crocker box! I'm laughing but I swear they had never tasted so good. Cooked very evenly as well .

Thus far the only small thing I dislike, and this is really SMALL.. when the oven is turned off.. you open the door, interior light comes on. Close door, light goes off. Pretty normal. Once oven is turned on (and preheat complete), the interior light comes on and stays on. If you want it off you have to turn it off manually. Some may like this setup. I just see more interior lights burning out. Again, very small.

Overall, we are very pleased with the oven. The fit and finish is very nice. I'm going to try and add photos. One of them you can see the interior of the door. The stainless has no gaps, no seams. No places for crud to get into. Doors ar every solid. etc etc! Hope this helps someone who may have seen a Fulgor Milano and wanted more information!

Interior Door Fit