My mother was an alcoholic who was unable to take her meds for diabetes & hypertension let alone get proper nutrition due to her continual "inebriated" state. She was getting quite ill due to her multiple diseases and was unable to comprehend the *big picture* or respond adequately. I knew that something more invasive needed to be done and found that (in FL) we have a process called "Baker Act" that allows mental health professionals, police, or a judge to initiate an involuntary examination. Unfortunately, I had to petition the court to have this process put in place since her POC physician did not recognize the depth of her alcoholism ... the court responded in 24 hours and a deputy went to her home and took her to a facility. I was with her at the time and explained that a member of family services had petitioned the court (half truth). She went without much fuss and it was the best thing that happened. She was thoroughly assessed mentally and physically and was released about a week later after she was stabilized and after putting some home-care assistance in place. It didn't last for long - but I felt that the examinations she received were very valuable. So the thought of temporary committment (if it's anything like this Baker Act) might be a first step ....

fac3, Maybe you should try thinking of it a different way. And I apologize in advance if anything that follows offends you, but you asked for everything, and and if this is the same woman he cheated with when you were 2... From what you've described it sounds possible your mom may have a mental disorder that she kept hidden until after they were married, and the woman he thought he married never actually existed. This generally holds true for narcissist, borderline, bipolar and other similar personality disorders. Do you "walk on eggshells" around your mother? If so, that's a strong indication and you may want to read up on these. Then met TOW, and maybe to them, it wasn't JUST an affair, but when he asked for a divorce, your mother refused maybe even threatening what she would do to him and how she would punish his children--and he believed her too! So for the sake of his children, he put aside his own personal desires and chose you over her, to protect and keep his children from harm. So he bore the brunt of your mom's fury himself, mostly in silence, but that would explain also why he confided in you with some of those inappropriate adult conversations--because he needed someone, and never really had a wife or anyone else and he felt very alone. His only joy in life for 20 years was YOU. When his loneliness became too great to bear, he also sought comfort in the arms of another woman, but that was just "comfort sex," shallow and unfulfilling. It's no excuse but it is THE REASON. After the rest of his children moved on and you were ready as well, absent any further need of protection, he felt that after 20 years of abuse, he could not see himself living that way, all alone with his tormenter for the rest of his life. He fulfilled his obligations, and after all that, didn't he deserve some happiness by finally being with someone he loved, and returned his love? This is no justification for cheating, but there is also a reason it is called FALLING in love, because that's what happens. We fall, and there's no way to stop ourselves. That's why it's better not to place yourself in the path of temptation. Maybe your dad and TOW fell in love those many long years ago, madly, desperately and hopelessly. When your dad chose you over her, she made some very bad choices as broken-hearted people tend to do. For all you know, at one time she may have had high standards and morals which your dad convinced her to set aside for him, promising he would take protect and care for her, and when he didn't she fell by the wayside, and went into a downward spiral. If your dad loved her, he should have protected her too! Instead now, he feels guilty for having abandoned her, the woman he never stopped loving, and is now extremely protective because he feels responsible--and that's because he IS responsible. His entire life has been one of obligations and responsibilities, and she is the one obligation he made that he didn't fulfill. Instead he left her out in the cold, all alone, to be made the subject of ridicule and abuse, he's regretted it ever since. He's not about to make that same mistake, ever again! And now the daughter who he loved deeply that he made this sacrifice for is the very one he must protect her from. Every single day, he is probably regretting he didn't leave your mom long ago--and maybe he should have! If he didn't love her, he should freed her to find love with someone else. We each only have 1 life, and none of us should live it trapped in a loveless marriage. He has obligated himself to her now voluntarily, and dedicated himself to sheilding and protecting her, just like he with you--only you have your own husband and in no further need of your dad's protection--she is now his primary responsibility. If you can't see how you are putting him in a very bad position by attempting to convince him to exclude his wife, then it might help to consider that even the most dispicable amount us, those who embody the very essence of evil, namely "sociopaths" and "psychopaths," are nice and even kind to those who care about and treat them well--and that doesn't take any effort whatsoever because that's in their own best interest. What separates them from the rest of us is that they lack the ability to EMPATHIZE--to truely place oneself in another's shoes to gain an awareness of their thoughts, emotions and behavior, even those you don't agree with and even those you find distressing until you find some way to relate and care about them, at least enough to be compassionate and considerate. It's what gives us the ability to "treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves" even people we don't like, even people who do things we feel are wrong. You are only seeing him as your father, and not the entire man as an individual human being, with all the same flaws and human weaknesses, along with the same emotions to be happy with a mate who is his alone to love and cherish, with whom he can enjoy the passions of intimate love, and find the place where he belongs and can call home. Even from what you've said, he never had that with your mom. But hey! I could be wrong, maybe your dad's a good person who made some mistakes and poor choices, or he's a dog! You can decide that for yourself, but if he's not going to change his mind, and you can't find some way to empathize and compromise to include her in some way, then the only resolution I can see is for you and your dad to go your separate ways. But I hope that's not going to happen.

@ mom 2_4- I am right there with you... my SD acts the same way, maybe a little more independent (in her defense). But the whiny, cutesy, babyish, mouth-breathing behavior and lack of common sense are the qualities she shares with your SD. I feel terrible for how I HONESTLY feel about my youngest SD (7). But I can't lie to myself and pretend everything is perfect when, in fact. it is the complete opposite. All she has to do is walk into the room and I'm instantly annoyed!!! It's not fair to my son or her older sister, who doesn't have that effect on me :( I know that has to sound terrible and selfish. I too clam up so I don't snap. Sometimes I just wish she lived with her mom instead of with us so I could have my sanity (secretly). But their girls would grow up to be just like their BM, which wouldn't be a good thing at all:( SD has the same effect on some of my other family members, where they can only handle her in small doses... that's about the only comfort I have at this point, knowing that others share that feeling... only they don't have to live with her 99.5% of the time like I do ARRRRRG :*( I feel like such a fake!!! I also have a deep-seated issue where I find myself fantasizing about enjoying my son's first accomplishments as if he were the only child in my life. I feel like because I married her father, I am obligated to LOVE her... pretty hard if I can't stand her :( I feel as a Christian, I have to love everyone despite whether I like them or not. My moral compass is stuck on a daily basis, as I struggle with those feelings from the time I get out of bed to the time I get back into bed... I wouldn't wish these feelings on anybody, except her once in a while... you know, "The Mother's Curse" ;) Somedays I feel like I'm going to snap!

I think the posts in reply to your original post are insensitive and rude. I suspect that they are also young. And naive. In spite of that, maybe there is a little truth in what they write? I don't know. I think that you are free to have a relationship with who ever you want to have a relationship with and if you chose not to have a relationship with your DH's child, you only need treat him how you would want to be treated. I imagine you want to be treated in a civil manner. I have a gf who did not want a relationship with her SD or her SD's bm and made that clear to her husband. I wish I had payed more attention. I had a relationship with my DH's children and his ex (I got him to seek mediation when she violated the court order and took on his battle) and believe me, if I could rewind time, I wouldn't do it again. It was a thankless task. Neither he nor his kids remember all that I have done for them and when they treat me poorly, he protects them. So, no, not everyone loves their SKs. Some of us start out with the best of intentions and end up like me; some never bother; and some have great relations. Every situation is different and you have to live your own life and take care of you. I learned this the hard way. I see women give everything to their SKs and the SKs just run over them (another gf was shocked after years of battling with her DH because he wasn't kind enough to his kids, the SKs ripped HER off). Believe me, it isn't about blaming others. It's about accepting who we are, what we need, and finding ways to find the peace and serenity we all want. For the past 5 years, whenever my SKs are around, I am busy - sometimes intentionally, some times I really just am busy. I decided this last year that I won't spend another holiday with them until their father and them quit pretending I'm the problem and learn to behave in a way that is "normal." He is free to spend time with them and like divorced parents, he can have them one year, me the next. I don't need to make a pronouncement about this, I just told him that I want to focus on "us," not the "family," and that he is welcome to have a relationship with his kids and that I just don't want to do the same. After 20 years, I am done.