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Basal Breaks from Grafted

3 years ago

I do see new stems coming from dirt up in Year 2 of growth. Don't think I'm going to bother pulling up the mulch and a -smidge- of dirt but whaddya guys say. Is it coming from a existing cane just below grade, or is it coming off the budded union ?

I should do a inspection when I do the spring pruning.....as if it's coming off the bud union, then one can say it's okay to cut off /prune down to the base if required on older stems (aka, to let new stems have room to grow).

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Comments (7)

Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
3 years ago
I would wait until I see a cane grow up with different foliage that alerts you to the fact it comes from rootstock and then dig down and tear that cane off. Own root can be easier. You will recognize different rootstocks over time.
rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ)
3 years ago
My take, Sheila, ^^ on a1an’s question is that he doesn’t know if this is a new cane ( of the desired rose) arising from the bud union, or if the new growth is arising from the basal region of a pre-existing cane. He could tell now by excavating mulch and soil, but he’s not going to do so till early next year. He would like to see for himself that what we are all told happens ( brand new canes really can grow from the bud union) really does happen, as we here bury the bud union. It’s like Scooter Libby threw sand in our eyes. Of course the new growth he sees may be coming from a pre-existing cane. He wants us to predict, now, which it is.
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Your roses look pretty. Sunset Celebration is an apricot rose. Perhaps the Arizona sun bleached the flowers white? Hope I understood you correctly, but if by saving the rose, you cut off a green cane from the dying rose, you would no longer have the graft or rootstalk. You would have an own root rose. If you're not sure how the rose broke apart and there might be graft and rootstalk left, maybe you can let the basal break bloom to see what you have. In that first photo, it looks like you will need to make a pruning decision, because of the crossing/touching canes. If that new break is the rose you want, it looks like a keeper.
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I use shear luck & wishful thinking! But in all seriousness, I was always under the impression roses would have basal breaks if they were in good fertile earth, happy, productive & thriving. My garden is only going into it's 3rd season; so some of my roses are just starting to really get going. But last year I had basal breaks on quite a few of mine. Abraham Darby had 4 basal breaks, turning into over an inch thick canes! I do have pretty good soil, loose & loamy. I water a lot if there is no rain. And I also added compost & use mulch. My mulch is just the regular shredded or chipped. Not sure of the contents - hardwood or softwood mix? And on another note we had a seriously hot summer last year & I watered. So all of the roses saw huge growth for here.
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My three adjectives: aberrant, unexpected and excessive. An example: roses that are sick with RRD do go dormant, but in their last attempts to live may put out long scraggly canes in late December, January and February, when no other roses are showing any hint of breaking dormancy. Unexpected: you need to know how long it takes for canes to harden up in your growing conditions. Early one, a rose grower brought some canes of her Color Magic to my garden. These five foot long canes had been cut off, rolled up in a circle 12 inches in diameter and stuffed in a plastic bag. And they unrolled. HTs just don't do that- bend them in circles and they break. If they are healthy Spacing of leaves, leaf margins, sepals, the order of bloom bud growth....all of these have 'normal' growth. When it isn't that's when we worry.
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Shrubs are entering Year 4. Year 3 and Year 2 did get Alfalfa tea and or alfalfa worked around the base. More pellets worked around the base than -tea-. In doing some pruning I've noticed a *few* that are new stems that did not come from the grower. Some others, it seems like it's the same 3/4 Primary Stems that arrived from the grower, with a Y branching off of it so I have 6/7 Canes framework canes, but it's really :::3:::: main canes in total from the soil up. Any tips on encouraging basal breaks on -grafted stock-. Should I put Alfalfa down early spring or after the 1st flush. Once things are leafed out you don't notice it as much, for some shrubs where I have like 3 stems , I would prefer some more from -ground up-
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
3 years ago
I'm so busy digging for weed buried emitters, I would probably skip that step of digging at the new basals but I see what you mean, rifis.
a1an
Original Author
3 years ago
Indeed rifis has summed up what I seek. Don't plan to do the disturbance now...too many leaves cans, and possibly Black Spot Leaf Debris on the base . Don't really want to also chance buying some BS leaf spores. Rater have a -clean- working area to contend with if I'm going to disturb the area.

What I still haven't gotten clarity , on BR grafted roses, where there is 3-5 primary stems coming off of it, was it from 3-5 budded points, and or was it just a single bud point....never did seem to find a agreeable consensus on that.
rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ)
3 years ago
I recommend you call or email Rachel at Palatine and ask her. So she can tell you what she told me. When I told her I assumed each cane on a new BR was individually budded ( as it certainly looks that way), she laughed and said no grower could afford to do that. Plus, it’s not necessary. She described what happens as “ magic”.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
3 years ago
Yes, that is correct! It's just ONE scion on one graft point, UNLESS there are two different roses grafted onto the same rootstock which I have seen these past couple of years.
dianela7analabama
3 years ago
Makes sense, one of the points of grafting roses is the ability to produce more, faster. It would kind of take a lot of extra time and effort if you had to do multiple canes on every rose.

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