Kitchen Reno - Enough space for a table?
We are finalizing our kitchen renovation plan and trying to decide if we have enough room for a kitchen table. The plans below show a 40-42" wide table. Our current table (which we plan to use) is a slim design and measures 32x55" (w/ leaf). The large east window is a Nanawall that opens outwards. The space is tight so we are questioning if we just make the island larger and leave the extra space as a path to the laundry room and outdoors or if we try to make the kitchen table area work. Any ideas? Flip the island, shorter island (ugh)?
1st Picture - Near current plan
2nd Picture - Most current plan showing showing more space in the laundry room
3rd Picture - Older plan but shows the adjacent rooms
Comments (19)
Buehl
3 years ago
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoUsing scalability, the red lines are 48", green lines are 24" and blue rectangle (representing your table) is 32x55. IMO, you have space for the table, and Buehl's requirements are more than the space needed, except for 48" in front of the laundry room door. But we have often disagreed on aisle widths. In a new build, I would try to achieve the wider aisles, but in a renovation, you work with what you have.
If you don't mind giving up the table, the island could be longer, as you suggest, with two seats on the side nearer the nanawall, which is more conducive to conversation than seats lined up in a row.
BTW, I think you should consider switching the range and fridge, if possible, to put the fridge closer to the living areas, and adding a prep sink to the island. If you make the island longer, adding a prep sink will give you more options for helpers in the kitchen.
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Comments (6)Does your current kitchen have enough space? If not, how short on space are you? Can you take that calculation and go from there, by inventorying the things you need more room to store and looking at the new floor plan for the needed space? I took my old kitchen and made sure I expanded drawer and cabinet space from there--emphasis on drawer space--by using a more efficient design. Actually, I turned what were 2 "pillars"--sort of--into spice storage. Just a thought. I'd definitely say purge the items you don't use, but I know in my case, I was so excited about my kitchen that I couldn't resist buying a bunch of new cookware, so remember to calculate some space for that :)...See MoreSmall kitchen reno - please help asap!
Comments (20)nsm - Great question. I originally wanted the Ringhult, but it's too dang expensive for this humble abode and I feared the look was too modern anyway. The pink undertone gave me pause--I even talked to the kitchen sales gal about it. She suggested it's because it's next to such a pure white with the Ringhult and the lighting in Ikea doesn't do it any favors. If you look at the other displays at Ikea--especially the sink display--that's Veddinge and it didn't read pink to me. The color is relative, I think. My walls are Sherwin Williams Snow Bound and they look very complimentary. I like the two together a lot. However, my fridge and range are closer to pure white and when I compare them to the cabs they look there iis a slight pink undertone. Of course, no one sees this but me and I actually like pink anyway. If one has stainless steel appliances I don't think they would notice the undertone unless they tried to pair Veddinge with a neutral counter or backsplash that has a yellow or green undertone, which would probably not look good. We've been using the cabs for about two months and so far so good. Since they're painted I don't expect them to last forever. In our last house we had the Adel white shaker style that I think was a thermafoil and I loved that finish. wore like iron. If the shaker style came in white rather than the creamy color I would have jumped on that style again, but I dislike SS appliances and white appliances with the Grimslov doesn't look good to me....See More9ft. Enough for kitchen table?
Comments (3)It depends, and that's where a layout will help -- a layout of the Kitchen and the table space area as well as a sketch of the entire floor the kitchen and table spare are on. Include all windows and doors/doorways an indicate what's beyond each external door. In particular, doors/doorways and traffic patters will tell us what we need to know. However, (1) As Patricia as said, a 5' deep island is barely cleanable for most people. If you're just trying to get seating at the island, reduce it to 42" deep if the cooktop/range is not on the island or 48" deep if the cooktop/range is on the island (not recommended). The island should be no more than 2 x the distance you can easily reach without stretching for clean-ability. (2) 9' is probably not wide enough. Figure you need the following: 40" for table depth (are you sure it's not 42"?) + 42" b/w the table and built-ins (44" would be better) + 54" b/w the table and island (assuming you have seats on the island) ================ 136" = 11'4" If no seating at the island, then 44" is probably wide enough to make-do b/w the island and table -- unless there is traffic b/w the two (e.g., a path to another room or a path to the backyard). If that's the case, then 48" would be much better. (Normally, I recommend 60" b/w a table and an island with seating, but if you can make-do with less...) Ask yourself, though: Do you really want to spend $$$ on a "make-do" kitchen? Wouldn't it be better to design it so it's truly functional and, as a result, is a pleasure to work in?...See MoreDesign dilemma- not enough space for fridge
Comments (33)Your dining table is right there so you really don't need the seating on the peninsula. It will still not be an open kitchen because of the stairway wall. It is only open to the dining room. Are you saying that if you stand in your kitchen that you will see people walking down your stairs. No wall? If no wall, you don't have room for a large window and no room for a wall oven. You essentially have a kitchen on one wall only. If you put a cooktop on the peninsula, you CANNOT have seating there, plus you need a vent hood above it. I don't know if you will have an electric or a gas cooktop. You could install a downdraft vent which are expensive, but it depends on your cooktop. I guess they still make them. If you do have a wall and can't see people walking down the stairs, put cabinets on the wall by the stairs. I don't know if a concrete home means just the exterior walls are concrete or if all interior walls are concrete too. Maybe you could extend the wall and put cabinets closer to the dining room so you don't run into cabinets when exiting the laundry room. You may have to move the laundry room door and make it a pocket door (unless it is a concrete wall). Then the refrigerator could go on the stair wall along with a few cabinets. That way, you could still have your wall ovens. You said you do not have counter depth refrigerators in your country. Maybe they are called something else? Call around and ask for a refrigerator that is 24" or 25" deep. That is too bad because you would like a counter depth refrigerator. It is not as deep as a regular refrigerator, but it is wider. It is so much easier to find food. Nothing gets lost. Are you trying to keep and use a refrigerator you already have? This home is newly built? Exactly what has been done in your kitchen already? Water lines for the sink? Wiring for the wall ovens? Wiring for the stovetop? Water lines for the ice maker in refrigerator? There is no point in offering advice if it is too late to make changes. The plan shows an architect that knows nothing about actually cooking in a kitchen. Sad that some bad plans are out there when there are so many goods ones....See More- PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
3 years ago 
Jennifer K
3 years agoRachel Lindy Brady
3 years ago@mama goose_gw zn6OH - Great feedback! The top design is tough to read. Apologies. Here is a 3D view. The cabinet next to the laundry area is a Steam Oven+Microwave stack. The cabinet next to the fridge is a Pantry System. The Butler Pantry leads into the dining room. And the desk to the left of the pantry is a placeholder and won't like be there in the end. What do you think of the appliance layout? The sun room will be a small family/play room. The living room will be more formal
The width of the sun room next to the kitchen provides the same dimension (within 1-2 inches) from island to window so we moved the table in there to get a feel. The space around the table felt fine (we did ~55 island to table and 34.5 window to table). Not ideal. Space from table to laundry room would be ~48 inches.
It is tempting to give up the table for a larger island or to even butt the table against the island. We want to have 2 separate dining areas but also don't want to try to squeeze something in and regret not having a larger island (island is ~7ft now)
@Patricia Colwell Consulting - I do agree, but it is also nice to be able to eat in front of the windows while closed for a view of the yard or while they are open but we prefer to be inside eating.
Rachel Lindy Brady
3 years agochocolatebunny123
3 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years agoThe cabinet next to the laundry area is a Steam Oven+Microwave stack.
The cabinet next to the fridge is a Pantry System. The Butler Pantry
leads into the dining room. . . What do you think of the
appliance layout?The fridge is too far from the sink, on the other side of an island. It's also too far from the range. The NKBA recommends a max distance of 9' between appliances. Even a prep sink on the island won't improve the layout.
Rachel Lindy Brady
3 years agoJennifer K
3 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years agoThe first plan you posted has the fridge in a better position than I thought (I thought the steam oven was the fridge). In this one, the fridge is near the living areas, where no one needs to walk by the range to access it, and it's not in conflict with island seating. It's close enough to the serving/snack counter for the kids. You still have kind of a wide prep triangle, but it will work:
Rachel Lindy Brady
3 years agoJennifer K
3 years agoRachel Lindy Brady
3 years ago
Design Girl
3 years agoRachel Lindy Brady
3 years agoJennifer K
3 years agoRachel Lindy Brady
3 years agolast modified: 3 years ago@Jennifer K @mama goose_gw zn6OH @Design Girl Here are the updated plans that we are close to locking in. What do you think? The fridge is far, but I am not sure what a better solution would be. We don't want to cut into the size of the butlers pantry. The large window looks out into our driveway towards our neighbor's house (into their kitchen). It is not the best view for privacy so have some regret about not putting the range on that wall with the sink against a wall (or island but not a fan)
The island is 86x53."5 - Will I have any issues with a Marble slab?
Design Girl