HDF (High Density Fiberboard) for Kitchen Cabinet Doors? Pros & Cons?
T R
3 years ago
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Shannon Wells Andrews
2 years agoRelated Discussions
Quality of kitchen cabinets: Yorktowne vs IKEA
Comments (31)The water v. cabinet issue has lots of people talk about it, but you kinda have to experience it to see the difference. Full disclosure - I have had some sizable leaks in two different brands of cabinets, including a valve break. Neither were ikea. I have ikea now. This was a monetary decision made after a lot of discussion. We modified all of the base cabinets by adding additional structural parts. I am prepared to ditch the sink cabinets if it becomes necessary and right on to kurtg that a sink base is the one place where the cost of actually doing any replacement completely overwhelms the value you can recover from the warranty. Some of the other things said above? Edge banding is for visual appearance, not a moisture barrier. Unless you are very fortunate, and the glue fills every millimeter of seam, it will not keep out water. YMMV on seams from an original manufacturer. Most cabinet plywood can beat up most particle board for moisture resistance. This is particularly true of ikea where one minute of water exposure to a cut edge is enough to cause deformation. The caulk idea expressed above is cute, but not really practical where pipes enter the bottom of the cabinet. Plus when almost every edge on the entire cabinet is a cut edge, its pretty difficult to make this work. So, how do I know it deforms? Because I tried it. A couple of those trials were yesterday on a cabinet part purchased within the last month. Dunk for a minute, wet sponge sitting on the surface and a decently long dunking of an end. I also tried other materials - like mdf, another companies particle board, hdf and two different types of cabinet plywood with differing cores. Ikea particle board was easily the worst at absorption and deformation. Hdf was easily the best at shape retention - no deformation even after 24 hours of immersion. In decending order of goodness: hdf, osb core cabinet plywood, mdf, home depot type veneer ply, other makers particle board and well behind that, ikea particle board. I will say that water sitting on just the coated surface - the really damp sponge test - took a long time to penetrate something over 10 hours. Water will penetrate all melamine coatings eventually. The problem isn't the coating - its what's inside of the coating. The particle board will tolerant no moisture. This isn't special to ikea. Other brands that use particle board cabinet bottoms (like one of the kinds I had) can also deform from standing water or continually being exposed to water or cleaning chemicals. The amount of time needed for deforming and the results depend on quality of the coating and the quality of the particle board. If you get a good long dunk, expect ikea to be destroyed. The low density fiberboard back is another weak spot. It has a very thin coating that is easily damaged. How easy? Piece of blue tape or slight bending or slide across a counter face down kinda easy. Will disintegrate on exposure to water. Intended as a dust back. It isn't structural - low density fiberboard has no structure. One of the famous weird things that gets said is the cabinet back will stop the cabinet from racking. It's laughable - the concept that this very soft stuff nailed into particle board - that can be pushed back out or bent by any small child - would be capable of structure. It's much more likely the racking will pull the nails out. Also from above, ikea base cabinets have two sides, a bottom and two puny cross pieces. The larger the cabinet, the weaker it is (even with the back attached). I very much doubt the bottom can be removed and the cabinet still has the same structure. They (being cabinet companies) used to sell, and some still do sell, a sink front that was framed - the actual sink cabinet was then built in place. But that was before big sinks and wide cabinets. Some of the large sinks and some of the countertop materials need some decent support up top. It can happen, but relying on just the two small mdf cross pieces with one fastener per end into a side piece held up only by cabinet connectors doesn't sound likely of being able to provide it. Mdf isn't known for its wonderful structural qualities either....See MoreWaypoint Cabinets vs Ikea
Comments (44)Ashley, I don't know, we can only speak from our experience and the way the companies current quality and service. We got Painted 410F Full Plywood. As for full plywood construction, this was also a lie. The backs are made from fiberboard, and not even MDF, some kind of strand board. The shelfs are also made from a low-quality strand board and many of ours have defects. We also went through the supplier / showroom as that is the only way to purchase waypoint products with a warranty (Which is worthless in our case). We are going on 16 months without a kitchen now as the cabinets are still not fully installed / missing parts. Some of the drawers had only 1 soft close shock on one side, some other had none for 2 drawers and 1 drawer that has them. Total lack of quality control. That is what we get for buying an American made brand. As many doors show seams or poor paint coverage as doors that are correctly made. Installers cracked 3 or 4 of the cabinets or maybe it was shipping and so far, we do not have replacements after over a year. We cannot complete our kitchen and may be forced to sell our house at a huge financial loss as I'm tired of playing camping with plastic tables setup in the living room for a microwave and air fryer oven we purchased months in as it appears we may never have our problem resolved by waypoint. These shady companies are the kind of installers / retailers Waypoint associates themselves with. We are currently shopping for lawyers that might be able to help, us, but it appears it would be as expensive to sue them as it would be to take the $28000 loss on the cabinets. At this point I would rather the lawyer get paid than the waypoint retailer though. I cannot even pay for / order any of the missing or damaged parts directly from waypoint as you must go through the installer who is not supporting us since he already has our money. So even after they refuse warranty, I cannot order replacement parts. This basically means that we need to tear out all the cabinets and start over with another brand. American Woodmark is the parent company, and I will never purchase American Woodmark, Shenandoah, PCS, Timberlake, Waypoint, Allen+Roth, or Hampton bay products again. Chinese Cabinets have better QC than Waypoint and are much much cheaper. I should have just bought Ikea cabinets and installed them myself. At least I would have a working kitchen by now. Stay away from Waypiont Cabinets and any retailer associated with this brand....See MoreKitchen remodel in progress Paint Issues
Comments (3)HDF is high density fiberboard as opposed to medium or low density fiberboard. As klem1 wrote, those gaps are excessive and should have been remedied by the manufacturer. Reason number one is any kind of fiber board is susceptible to moisture damage(swelling to start) and those cracks can be the start. HDF and MDF are my last choice for cabinets in moist rooms for that reason alone....See MoreKitchen cabinet layout and design: what do you love or regret
Comments (37)Biggest mistake for me was doing a wall of cabinets pantry vs a walk in pantry. Never again if i can help it! Even with slide out shelves there is not substitute IMO for a walk in pantry. Also in that pantry between wall studs i had single can depth storage shelves placed for all my can goods. So handy! Large deep drawers for my pots and pans. I love them. Have had two versions of them . First directly under the gas cook top and second in the kitchen island. I prefer the first. Of course if you have a range style stove/oven that’s not possible. Which leads me to cook top vs range. When we custom built i thought the only option would be to get a professional style range/oven. I came to find this just wasn’t for me. I’m tall. Bending down for the oven part all the time wasn’t a good fit for me. My favourite combo is a gas cook top and double wall ovens. Deep drawers that can organize your Tupperware/storage containers. Also a very deep drawer that i could stand my foils, parchment paper, wax paper etc. Up In on their side. Made storing them so easy. Built in flatware dividers, built in knife drawer. Im not into having a lot on my counters so i don’t care for a butcher block style knife holder on the counter. Same goes for spice rack. Cabinet with cookie sheet dividers. So nice to have! Built in trash and recycle can cabinet. built in soap dispenser. Especially if your sink is on an island. Not done as much anymore but something i still love is the flip down sponge storage on the face plates under sink. Again part of my not liking anything out and exposed i suppose! if it’s in the budget a pot filler at the cooktop. It’s not a make it or break it but when i had one it was nice! Especially for filling the big pots....See MoreTina Cain
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