It depends on if the makeup is worn at home or a friends home as play makeup or for beauty pageants. Parents that encourage this should be encouraged to make themselves up the same way and wear it in public.

It is worn every day along with hair extensions and fake nails! Mom wears a lot of makeup and hair extensions but she is in her 30s.

The child is actually very talented and sometimes does her mother’s makeup. I just don’t think at that age it should be an everyday thing. What child needs fake nails and lashes for daily wear?

This child is absolutely beautiful, kind and smart..... yet it seems the entire focus is on her looks and having to get done up to leave the house.

Our good friends were pretty strict with their kids, so this one surprised us. They talked about their youngest daughter being a "fashionista ". Um, no. We went to their house, she teetered out on 4" heels, pushup bra and painted on jeans. For Christmas Eve church. She was 12.

She's now a junior in college and seems to have outgrown that phase. I think her parents just decided not to fight that particular battle.

Where's the line between girly girl and sex pot? That is the fear is it not? Phases come and go but what a balance to raise a woman strong in who she IS for what's inside no matter how fancy she is able to make outside layer. I kept mine pretty tight, not watching shows that had adults or teens in "adult" situations, no hair salons, no outfits beyond their years..I am happy with how they turned out.

In the case of my friend, she did not emulate what she saw at home. Her mother is very conservative in dress and makeup, and her older sister is even moreso. She is modest and doesn't like to draw attention to herself.

At least she got past it unscathed. She's turned into a lovely young woman.

I think that is so sad. Kids are only kids for such a short amount of time. Girls especially have so much pressure on them to focus on the wrong things too young. They do not need their MOTHER of all people to encourage that school of thought. I can imagine the damage being done to her psyche. How is she supposed to feel about herself when her own mother is pushing the idea that you cant leave the house without painting someone elses face on?

Parents are role models for their children. While you have to do some study, take a test and get a license that needs to be renewed periodically in order to drive a car, there are no such preparatory steps involved with being a parent.

There are sadly far too many women who spend more time looking after and spending mind-share on superficial things, like their appearance, than on the more important and substantive things that are or should be on their inside. You know who they are and yes it's not just women who are so obsessed. But it seems to be far more women than men. Sadly many become parents and in that role, as Anne described, encourage imitative behavior concerning personal appearance obsessions and "beauty" behavior to the exclusion of other things.

I brought up a few weeks ago concerning the You Tube video of a young airhead who was giving "how to apply makeup" instruction when an earthquake hit, that any right thinking parent could use it as an example of a behavior a female child should be encouraged to AVOID at all costs. How to become a person of substance, developing and pursuing personal goals that involve hard work (which needn't be academic in nature) and teaching self respect are tools that especially parents of female children need to convey and continue to emphasize. This little girl's conduct is sad and it's the parents who are to blame. The consequences may be long term.

It isn't so much what they do but rather how what they do suggests what they may not be doing enough of. Maybe that's too much of a stretch to get to as a conclusion but what I'm describing is what I observed during our child-raising years.

Is it really any wonder? If she has spent her entire life watching her mother and other female relatives like yourself not leave the house without hair and makeup, what exactly is she supposed to think?

"This is how women behave, I might as well get a head start!"

Frankly, I don't think the mother is in any position to say anything about it, nor are you. That would very much be a case of do as I say, not as I do.

If we want young women to spend more time on their substance and NOT focus obsessively about their looks, we must not obsessively focus on ours.

I have boys, but we used to walk to school with the little girl next door. She was a spitfire from day one lol. Well, one day, she was in 1st grade maybe, we stopped by to pick her up. She opened the door, and I couldn’t help but notice she had lip gloss on. “Why L, is that lip gloss? My, how pretty.” Next voice I hear is her dad “L!!! take that off!” Boy, she shot me daggers from her eyes. But the next year, she had eye shadow on? “Why L, is that shadow? My, how pretty.” Then her mom “L!!! Take that off!”

bpath, more parenting failures, such conduct (even if innocent play) isn't unpreventable. What if she'd opened the door and had been drunk?

I think it's natural to want to decorate one's self and play dress up. It's another thing to think one isn't good enough as is to face the world. Did I just put on make up to do an MS Teams meeting for work today? Yes. It's part of professional camouflage. I do not mistake that for self worth, however.

Hair extensions?? Fake nails? On a kid?? Absolutely no way! That's for the parents benefit, not the kids. Like those tv shows about child beauty pageants, that's all for the parents' ego. I liken this to child abuse, even if the kid thinks they want it, absolutely not. When she's old enough to pay for them herself, then do it. Hair extensions are expensive and have to be re-done. Let's see if she wants fake eyelashes, they have to be done every 3 weeks. Personally I don't know any kid who would sit still for hours to go through it.

Incredibly sad to rob a little girl of her childhood. The consequences of this kind of sexualization can be horrible, costing a girl her self esteem and the ability to construct a durable and positive self concept.

That reminded me of a student who does have fake eyelashes..weaved. $$$ for the initial job, dad paid for and the up keeps is hers to pay. She is of Asian decent and when asking her about the cost /extravagance issue she says shocking things like "I will look like I just got of the boat w/o them"..She is obviously a VICTIM of White supremacy advertising...It isn't always parents and from the latest polls family opinions approval is at an all time low. With the rise of social media "friend" opinions are much more valuable to most children. She is of high school age so some people would say the issue is a tish different. My assumption is if you are willing to pay for a child's nails to be done it won't be long until you are getting their nose fixed or boobs enhanced.....

Those little girl beauty contests need to be banned. They are purely obscene!

Young children should just be left to being young children.

I have some qualms about telling my little five year old grand daughter that she is pretty. I don't want her to think that being pretty is a measure of her merit or that she would not be as valued if she were not pretty.

If she should walk into a room modeling her new clothes, it might make sense to say, "How pretty!". But, to include it in her vision of her own self worth is not a positive thing, I don't think.

She asked for pretend make up for her birthday last month. I looked at some on Amazon but did not buy her any. I did not like the idea of her wearing it and I did not trust the chemical nature of that stuff for a little girls face. I am not sure where she is getting this from. Her mom does wear some, but certainly no fake stuff or excess of anything. My guess is that she is getting it from YouTubeKids on her iPad.

Ok, while most of what has been described above is -no question- over the top, I disagree with the idea that substance and surface are mutually exclusive.

Why do we think a woman can’t be both interested in their appearance and committed to a life filled with substance and meaning? I think that also sends the wrong message.

Where did we get the idea that women cannot have endeavors on both ends of the spectrum? This idea both demeans and demands choices - ie that we must pick one or the other and we’re judged either way.

I’ve seen it in those around me - not letting a girl put a princess dress on a Build A Bear because it’s silly and then worrying that their chosen path (a very serious one) may not be the best option.

When I was a child I always wore an accessory, loved to dress up, and spent a lot of time styling my Barbies. At the same time, my favorite pretend game was “work”.

My parents tried to guide my decisions and also let me work out the balance that made me who I am today - a successful clothing-obsessed productive citizen of my community. Obviously they would intervene if I went over the top, but a little lipgloss is not a tragic loss of innocence.

I’ve seen plenty of airheads and misguided adults - both men and women. Not all of them are this way because they did their nails and makeup at too young an age.

I have a friend who constantly posts photos of her girls on Facebook and all everyone says is how "pretty" the girls are. Mom is trolling for attention and posts tons of staged photos.

Both girls are straight A students and have so much potential. It's so sad to see their parent focus on "pretty."

Re: the little girl beauty contests, have you seen Little Miss Sunshine? Its a hoot!

Where did we get the idea that women cannot have endeavors on both ends of the spectrum? This idea both demeans and demands choices - ie that we must pick one or the other and we’re judged either way.

Spanish, I agree that a woman can most certainly care about her appearance and not be shallow, and to demean "girly" pursuits is sexist. I like nice clothes, good hair and skin a good deal.

My sole issue is with children being encouraged, or allowed to indulge in make-up, elaborate hair styles, mani/pedis, grown up clothes. Children are not equipped to distinguish between how much such things matter and it is easy for a young person to give disproportionate importance to something that does not matter. If I waste an entire Saturday with hair, nails, clothes, chances are I have not forfeited a better, growing opportunity. I worry about the trade offs, both psychological and academic, a young child is making when she is getting hair extensions and doing elaborate make up.

When I was a young teen, I wanted a manicure. My mother said, no. She explained there is an age for everything and I would be getting my nails done soon enough. Later on when I was a mother and even younger children started frequenting nail salons my mother asked, What will they do when they are 16, 17, 18? What will be a way to mark that transition to young adulthood?

I think that’s where adults need to provide the guidance necessary to traverse the challenges and learning necessary to achieve balance.

And adults need recognize the potential for rebellion and reverse psychology. To ban something can make it more desirable and when kids sneak, the learning opportunity is missed.

Focusing on how "pretty" girls are is like eating candy for dinner.

If you're starving, candy does provide instant gratification. But it's not good for you long term and no matter how you try to spin it, it's just empty calories.

^^^

this illustrates my point. It shouldn’t have to be all or nothing. You can be pretty and smart. Learn to understand the difference and how each of these affect your value and self worth.

ETA we value handsome male leaders and don’t talk about how their good looks affect their position in life.

Parents need to set and enforce standards that they find age-appropriate. What Anne describes is inappropriate for a preteen girl. Who is encouraging this...and paying for it?

Kids, especially girls, are being pushed to be sexually appealing at a very young age it seems to me. Lately I've been seeing pictures of girls in their non-prom dress ( due to covid 19, no prom this year) and the dresses have thigh high slits, are skin tight and are very low cut. To me they just look sad. Im not saying they should wear nuns habits but a young girl in a pretty dress, not so revealing, is lovely. No need to look so enticing.

This reminds me of some years ago when I was getting my hair dyed, and in walked Ivanka Trump. My hairdresser told me that she had first come there as a three year old, to get her hair bleached the same color as her mother, Ivana. He said that he, personally, wouldn't have done it and would never use something so harsh with the risk of harming a young child's scalp. But when parents have it in their mind that their child should look a certain way, they do things.

This is such a sore subject with me. Those "little Miss spoiled brat Beauty

Pageants drive me crazy". Those poor kids should be taken away from their

Mothers for child abuse. To see the type when they are older go to the

Mall and watch the teens parading around...shorts so short their "cheeks" are

hanging out and shirts cut so low they are always grabbing them and pulling

them up. No Mom or Dad in sight, of course. Ugghhhh!!!!! We were at

a very Large Mall last Christmas, and saw the Mall Security Men "leading"

3 of these like -dressed to the Mall offices. Heard a Security Officer say

to one..."you have already been banned from this Mall for this..and now

you are here stealing again?" Yep...Mama...a great job of raising them.

Just makes me so angry and feel so badly for these kids.

"I think that’s where adults need to provide the guidance necessary to traverse the challenges and learning necessary to achieve balance."

I don't think the original topic has to do with balance but rather an apparently poor role model of a parent whose personal attitudes fail to provide proper guidance and priorities, at least in one respect and likely in more.

My experience when raising our own children was that the parents of other children ours knew who were too self-absorbed in general were very poor parents and insufficiently engaged with them. Measured by the things they did along the way the outcomes of the children in their family.

There's no substitute for knowing your own kid(s). Sometimes they need a push to try new things, develop broader interests.

Sounds sad and shallow to me. And lots of parents pierce their daughter's ears as newborns. I am well aware this practice is very much a cultural thing.

Let them be kids, they grow up to fast as it is.

I wish I had my ears pierced as a infant. I wouldn't remember it. I threw up and passed out when I had it done for my 10th birthday. My mom was very squeamish and worked me up into it I think........

@1929Spanish- I understand your position and agree with it. One of my best friends, her nieces are being raised with a staunchly "anti-girly" viewpoint. They aren't allowed to watch Disney movies, play dress up, wear girly clothes, etc.

This is also not healthy!

There is NOTHING wrong about caring about your appearance or wanting to make sure you look your best. It's when those wants and desires supercede anything else that it becomes a problem. When your sole, or at least primary focus becomes WHAT you look like instead of WHO you are.

For me, I've got 4 daughters. I have always told my daughter's that makeup and hair is just for fun. To dress up. I also LIVE this reality by NOT wearing makeup or styling my hair in a fancy way on a daily basis. It helps that both my mother and my mother in law are the same way.

We "dress up" for special occasions but on a daily basis, we don't spend an inordinate amount of time on our looks.

We are clean and groomed, but not made up.

My oldest is almost 13 and doesn't care at all about makeup/hair or clothes!! I have to remind her of basic grooming!! My next 2, 11 and 9 love to play dress up and get fancy and they are allowed to go hog wild with makeup, at home or on the weekends. They aren't allowed to wear it to school or out in public and they don't fight me on it either.

Right now, they know it's fine and FUN but...the message I try to drive home at all times...at least so far it SEEMS I'm doing a good job of, is that, yes, makeup properly applied DOES make you look better, that's the whole point of it!! BUT...we don't NEED it to interact with others. We don't NEED others to gauge us on our looks.

"Why do we think a woman can’t be both interested in their appearance and committed to a life filled with substance and meaning?"

Because there are SO very many women who can't seem to do both and seem to choose the first and ignore the second. SO VERY MANY.

I agree with TG's comment that the right balance is to try to be clean. presentable and well groomed but not made up and without obsessing over one's appearance. It's the obsessing over it to the exclusion of other things that's the problem in general and the problem with the parenting failures this thread has been talking about.

I was interested in an observation by a family member shortly after she moved from Chicago to SLC. She was impressed with the much greater proliferation of businesses devoted to female grooming. She is an adolescent psychiatrist.

Elmer, my guess would be most women of substance also care about how they look, as does every human being--we all want to look our best. And as that movie Legally Blonde pointed out it is possible for a self absorbed mirror loving women to improve her inner-self at anytime. I also think it isn't much of a leap to fear if too much attention is placed on looks from diapers on..it will develop a focus in the child that would be better places elsewhere. It's about balance after all. I think the OP was questioning the balance when children are being occupied with adult behaviors.

"Elmer, my guess would be most women of substance also care about how they look, as does every human being--we all want to look our best. "

I think that's fine. My experiences are very different. This conversation seems to have been about priorities and how so many women overemphasize what's outside and visible and give rather less attention to what's inside, both for themselves and for their kids. And what kind of examples and guidance are provided to children. I don't think every human being obsesses over their appearance and that's really what I had in mind with my comments.

Someone who applies their efforts to work, personal interests and other endeavors of "substance" will have rather less time to be concerned with fluffy, superficial matters of their own appearance. Such people, in my experience, try to do their very best on their appearance with the limited time they make available to do so because of other time consuming things they've given higher priority. The reverse is also true, someone with idle time and little effort devoted to matters of substance has plenty of time to devote to irrelevancies of their own appearance. It's how they pass the time.

There is a difference in caring about your appearance and needing to change it to feel comfortable being seen by other people.

This young girl is being encouraged to wear fake hair instead of caring for her own, fake nails which are detrimental to the health of her actual nails, and drawing all over her face to conceal what she actually looks like. What's next? Implants for her sweet 16? Botox? I wonder if she is encouraged to read, work hard, or learn new skills that do not involve makeup.

SO says that a lot of women today seem to wanna look like camels that have been in a bar fight, with those ridiculous fake lashes and dark eye makeup. It's sad.