hm....to tell the truth I have never checked the temp of my starter or my oven with/without the light or my bread dough or the starter as I was getting it going ! My house is 68 all winter and then in the Summer we keep the thermostat on 78. Whatever time of year it is all seems to do just fine. I have never made an exception for my bread dough other than to place it in the oven with the door propped open with an oven mitt. That is how it is today with the dough I am currently making. It has to rest at "room " temp for 3 hrs...with stretch and folds every 30 min for the first 2 hrs and then leave it alone for one hour. Then shape and let rise one hour at room temp then retard overnight and bake direct from fridge in 500 degree pre-heated pots tomorrow. I just checked my oven temp with the light on and it is 73. That is where I do my apple yeast water and my starter after I feed it and that is where my first and only , current , stater got going. One of the things they caution is not to over feed your starter...as in until it doubles don't feed again. I followed the method I linked 4 yrs ago and didn't have a problem. I know others on the Fresh Loaf have had to try about 3-4 times to get one going. I used rye flour from my local health food store and bottled water ( that is important when getting it started) and King Arthur white AP flour. It could be that is the problem with your first starter is over feeding. As to the second starter I wouldn't worry at all about "bad" stuff growing at this point. The tiny bubbles and concept of "bad" are not a problem at this point. Simply carry on and move it to a slightly cooler place and feed/discard and definitely stir well and give it air via a loose cover. It should be fine. As to the other one after 6 days if it has bubbles and has a fine odor I sure wouldn't discard it either. I would take out half and feed it and leave it where it is about 75 for 24 hrs and see what is what. As to apple yeast water just chop up 100g of apple and put it in the quart jar with 2/3 full filtered water...it does love the 80's so use your oven with light. Stir very well every couple hours all during the day for 3 days - 4 days. It is ready to rise bread. The apples will always float and the water will be VERY fizzy ! You can hear it ! It does need a lot of attn and warmth the first 3-4 days and then it is completely care free and can be in the fridge for weeks at a time and not used. Once you get your other starter going....and I do urge you to go to TFL and read some of the discussions on getting a starter going...I will tell you how to store it when not in use for lengths of time...when I am gone on a bicycle tour I leave mine unattended in the fridge for months. Keep us posted. c http://www.thefreshloaf.com/search/node/debra%20wink%20starting%20a%20sour%20dough%20starter read the first two articles by Debra Wink...linked above and then the link below...you will know more than I do when done :) Debra's way always works !! c Here is a link that might be useful: TFL...link to a lot of discussions

Finally, I have pictures! HereÂs the dough after adding yeast. Here it is about 2 hours later. So I punched it down. And formed 3 loaves. Two hours laterÂÂ.. By now itÂs 8:30pm, IÂve built fence all day, taken care of the garden and this is just going to have to do!! Baked Âem. And the results were just OK! Flavor is good, crumb is good, should have baked just a few more minutes. EverythingÂs better with butter!!! On a related note. I decided to keep feeding my starter to get it lively again and itÂs failed. I think I killed it. Probably neglected for far too long. Think IÂll take a break from sourdough for awhileÂÂÂ Luckily, I dried and froze some when it was healthy so can reactivate that later! Thanks again to all who helped "Save the Bread". Deanna

I probably have a dozen different yeast baking books--maybe more. The two best are: Uncle John's Bread Book--it's a little, old paperback, written by a family that had a German bakery. It includes a lot of the recipes they actually used in their bakery. It's my 'go to' book when I need something new, that I can totally rely on being extraordinary. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's still in print. You might be able to find a copy on E-bay. Nancy Silverton's Breads from the La Brea Bakery is great for baking with a starter. I used her directions to grow my sourdough starter from the grapes I grow in the back yard, and have been using it and her recipes for over 5 years now.

You can get the grandmammy of starters for free (small donation suggested) from Friends of Carl's Oregon Trail starter. You can also catch your own, though it takes awhile to get it strong and happy. It looks like your baker is unglazed bisque ceramic. If it were glazed (look inside as well), it would have a glassy finish, like tile. I'd guess that you'd want to season it the way they do the terracotta in the link I put in my previous post. The instructions for a similar kind of ceramic baker on the King Arthur Flour (KAF) site seem to imply that pre-seasoning isn't necessary, though seasoning will build over time. It does suggest you grease and flour, however, since the pan isn't seasoned. I'd just go ahead and follow the Mason Cash instructions and season it. Even with three applications, the seasoning is just starting, and gets a lot better over time. I always oil my terracotta bread pans lightly before using, as well as my unglazed ceramic pizza pan. The linked page at KAF also gives some suggestions for picking a recipe to fit their pan. You might see if it's the same size as yours--if so, the recommendations could be useful. That page also says you don't need to soak or anything. That the steam in the dough will do the trick. That's the nice thing about covers, as well. :) If your pan came with instructions to soak it, however, I'd pay some heed. You might also wan to soak it and let it dry as you start to look for your starter just because it's been so long since you used it. There's dry and then there's dried out. :) Good luck! There are other bakers here as well who may have more info for you.