Dog issues...advice??

Texas_Gem

I've had dogs my entire life, multiple dogs. I've never dealt with the issues I'm currently dealing with.
Our current pet family is:
Yoda- a 13 year old Chihuahua mix I rescued from the side of the road 13 years ago when he was a puppy.
Leia- the runt I've previously posted about that I rescued when she was a tiny 1 pound pup almost 3 years ago.
Dude- my husband's very chill, medium weight (45-50 lb) mutt he adopted from the animal shelter last May, he's roughly a year and a half to 2 years old.
And...
Tina- my oldest childs dog that she got (adopted through the local shelter) in August. Tina is full size but still very puppy like. She's a heeler mix, medium weight (45-50 lb) dog, roughly a year old.
Everything was fine during our meet and greet, Tina was curious about the little yappy animals (Yoda and Leia) but not aggressive.
We brought Tina home and at first, things seemed to be okay. They would occasionally play together but they mostly stayed separate, leaving each other alone.
This was fine as Yoda and Leia are both more suited to/comfortable with being little lap dogs and Tina and Dude were both more active/excitable/playful.
Over our Thanksgiving break, we witnessed Tina go after/attack Leia. Leia wasn't hurt and I initially suspected that Tina was just trying to initiate play a bit too aggressively.
Over the Christmas break however, we started to realize we had a real problem.
Tina attacked, without provocation or warning (snarling, lip curling, growling, etc) first Yoda, then Leia, then Yoda AGAIN; then she got loose in my mom's yard and attacked her Chihuahua mix Ninja. Luckily, we were present and able to intervene immediately in all of these situations and the injuries were superficial.
I called and made an appointment with a dog trainer who specializes in behavior issues.
She is coming on Tuesday morning (January 21) for our first appointment.
We have been keeping the animals completely separate to avoid any further issues until our appointment.
Unfortunately, on Saturday afternoon one of my kids opened the back door and Tina ran out while Yoda and Leia were in the backyard.
She immediately attacked Yoda. We ended up having to rush him to the emergency vet clinic.
My poor little man had a major laceration to the back of his neck which required stitches, a drain tube, and of course sedation for the emergency surgery.
He is not out of the woods yet, he has to see the vet in a few days for drain tube removal, and again in another week to remove the stitches.
I've already got the appointment with the specialist on Tuesday but...I'm at a loss.
I don't know WHY this has happened or what I should do. I've never had this issue integrating a new pet into the fold.
Given that she has attacked and, at least right now seems triggered to attack, smaller animals, she can't really be rehomed.
I don't want to put Tina down, she is a bright, intelligent, kind dog who has NEVER shown any aggression towards people; I just don't know what has happened/why she has become so violent towards small animals.
This can't go on though.
We are already struggling financially right now, the emergency vet visit of 700 dollars has made thing incredibly difficult.
The specialist coming on Tuesday morning is expensive, a dollar a minute!
I just...I don't know what to do. I don't want to be one of those people who just puts an animal down because they are a problem. At the same time, I can't keep risking my other dogs lives and I
certainly CAN'T afford thousands of dollars of specialized training for Tina either.
What am I supposed to do??
Any advice or commiseration is welcome. I'm just feeling so overwhelmed with all of it right now that I keep crying.

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graywings123

In my experience, it's not that uncommon for larger size dogs to have a prey drive that unfortunately gets redirected at smaller dogs. I believe it is possible to rehome Tina as long as the next owner is aware that Tina can't co-habit with small dogs.

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amylou321

I agree. She should be able to be rehomed. I see many dogs up for adoption that clearly state that they must be the only pet in the home or no small children,etc. A good rescue will provide her with some behavioral correction, and will inform potential adopters of her restrictions. Just do your research before you surrender her to one. Perhaps your trainer would have a recommendation.

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watchmelol

I agree with Graywings. This is not about hgetting along with otehr dogs. this is about prey drive. She doesn't see the smaller dogs as members of the pack. Too her they might as well be squirrels. Herding dogs and chis don't mix well IMO opinion unless they grow up together or with other mixed packs.


The personality of the dog toward humans has little to do with prey drive. I once had a god natured ,happy go lucky Black Lab who loved every single person and most dogs he met who would go after anything small other than our little cocker terrier mix who was here before he was. He attacked the pet tortoise, who had to be epoxied back together, and had to be kept away from our pet rats. His prey drive was exceptionally high and I had to redirect that drive in all areas of my training. On the other hand my highly protective and growly Bullmastiff Mix who lived with us at the same time loved all small creatures. One of our pet rats would come right up to her. She would roll her tongue around him like a burrito and groom him. All protection and watchful, highly mistrustful of strangers, zero prey drive.


Tina would make a good pet for someone who would spoil and love her as the only pet and give her a job to do. Heelers make great agility dogs for example. Without a job they will get into trouble. Sharp minds that have to be active.

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arkansas girl

I also agree that this is not uncommon and as long as someone does not have small dogs or cats etc, she can be rehomed. I see this very often when I look at dogs on line that are up for adoption. It happens. I don't know that this can be trained out, maybe, it is worth a try I suppose.

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Judy Good

That is a tough one. I personally would not keep her. Best of luck. Rehoming sounds like a good idea in a single pet home.

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amylou321

I want to add that you should NOT feel bad about this. I too have had lots of dogs. Everything from a puppy that was a present to dogs off the side of the road to former fighting and bait dogs. But one long haired chihuahua was out of my league,if any of you remember BonBon. I rehomed her and felt SO bad that I couldn't help her be happy, especially as all my other dogs have been happy at my home. But i was recently sent a video of her,playing with her new pitbull sister,Roxy. It was like a different dog! So happy,comfortable, having fun! At my house she hid under the furniture and growled at my other dogs. And it made me feel so good that I did that for her.

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Lucille

I agree, rehoming because of small animal prey drive can be a win/win situation. Cancel the specialist, you need the $ to pay your vet bills. Call around to local rescues who may be able to foster Tina while a new home is being found.

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blfenton

Is she feeling threatened in anyway? I don't mean by the other dogs but by anything that you can see. It might not be that attacking Yoda is the actual problem (well it is a problem) but that might be her only way of releasing whatever is bothering her.

Does she have to share eating bowls, does she have to share walks, is she in competition for affection or attention, Does she have her own place to sleep, is she the one who is always being separated from the rest of the family if something goes wrong.

As mentioned above, maybe she needs to be an "only" dog. Do you know why she was at the shelter in the first place? It could be this is just too many dogs and too many people for her.

When you take her for a walk does she attack other dogs?

Before putting her down I would try rehoming her in a single dog home.

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bpath reads banned books too

Many shelters want you to bring the dog back to them if you can’t keep it, rather than rehome it yourself. Perhaps they have a foster program, where the dog goes to someone who can help her work on her behavior, making her suitable for a new family. Although, that family still should not have other pets or small children.

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nickel_kg

Not every dog suits every home. Is your child mature enough to understand that? If this is her first time selecting a dog, it might be very hard for her to agree to give her up. Can she be there as you discuss the situation with the trainer?

Best of luck figuring out the best way forward, both with the dog, and with your daughter. They both deserve to be happy. Amylou's recent experience is a good example.

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eld6161

Do not keep this dog. So sorry but even if it were possible to correct this behavior, it would take years of stressful living in your home.

We have a rescue with issues and it is not a picnic! He was supposed to be returned but.....I won’t bore you with the details. We have him 8 years now and although he has improved immensely, there are things that just cannot be trained out. It is what it is.

A neighbor of ours brought home a rescue. The first thing it did getting out of the car was to run after the next door neighbors DD and bite her on the leg.

They kept the dog and always said, “We recused this dog to protect her from the world, we didn’t think we would have to protect the world from her.”

For the next ten years they worked around the dog. With your busy household, I don’t think you need this in the mix.



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happy2b…gw

Given the situation, I would not spend any money on this dog. I would cancel the appointment with the trainer and locate a shelter who will take him. So sorry you have to deal with this.

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eld6161

She goes back to the shelter where they got her.

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Michele

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I agree that she needs a different home. I hope whatever you decide, your daughter understands. No easy direction here.

Vets are so expensive.

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joyfulguy

I agree with the others who say that she can't stay.

At sixty bucks an hour, the trainer won't be able to offer advice that has ongoing value regarding your relationship with an outbound dog.

Have a personal and/or family related discussion with the about-to-be-heartbroken daughter/caregiver, and try to have her involved when you talk to the skilled managers of pets.

Can't think of other suggestions.

Good wishes to all in your household, two-leggeders and four-leggeders, (including the one about to depart), as you cope with this hurtful experience.

ole joyful

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lily316

As sad as this may seem, for the health and safety of your other dogs, Tina needs to go back to the shelter where they can adopt her out to a home without dogs or at least ones with large dogs. I know you love your other dogs and want the best for them so that should outweigh feelings for Tina. Good luck.

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Suzieque

I believe that if you read the paperwork from the shelter where you got her, it will explicitly say that, if the situation doesn't work out (or words to that effect), you will return her to THEM.


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Elmer J Fudd

TG, the evolution to this behavior is a one way street. Efforts to try to re-civilize such an animal are often fruitless.

We had a friend whose large dog started with mild attacks on her fellow dog in the house, they were in denial about it. The behavior progressed to more serious attacks, and then progressed to attacking humans. That happened once. We'd connected these friends with a dog behavior/trainer practitioner and from her they got the same advice, that the dog needed to be segregated from people and all other animals, or euthanized. It was tough love advice and ultimately failing in finding a place for the dog to go, it was euthanized.

Don't take any chances, act quickly before more happens. Good luck.

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pb32

That dog has to go. Next time she's likely to kill one of the smaller dogs.

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MiMi

I'm sorry if this seems harsh but after the first attach I would of had that dog back to the shelter and let them know her behavior around other dogs, this dog obviously needs to be with a family without other pets....Should not even had the opportunity to attach again....I am in fear of your child....I hope that dog is out of your home by now... your poor other little pets....

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yeonassky

For me it would be an immediate no on keeping the dog! The dog has crossed the line. Back it goes. Having sympathy for the dog is fine but taking care of your family including the dogs who trust you to take care of their welfare is more important.

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

A differing opinion here but the dog can be trained out of that sort of behavior. It might be an overactive prey drive or could just be fear and not knowing her place in the pack hierarchy. Most skilled dog trainers will tell you there is no such thing as a bad dog....only those that are misunderstood, have not been trained properly or acclimated to the pack properly. However, that sort of training is often long term and not inexpensive so rehoming in this case may be the best option.

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Elmer J Fudd

With the friend's problem dog I mentioned, I consulted with my veterinarian relative, who consulted with a classmate who'd become a specialist veterinary behaviorist. (The vet equivalent of a psychiatrist, there are very few of them). The behaviorist's advice was that it can be very difficult to try to rid a dog of an attacking personality and their suggestion was as I described. The trainer's advice that my friend got and the behaviorist's advice I've just described were the same.

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DawnInCal

Even if this dog's behavior could be changed through training, I'd find it difficult to ever fully trust her around the little dogs again. Without the time and resources to spend hours on training, it seems that your best bet is to return her to the shelter to be adopted into a family with no small pets or children. She's not a good fit for you.

There are so many good dogs out there that need homes and don't come with serious behavioral issues. I'd give Tina a chance to find a home that works out better for her and for you to find a dog that fits in with your other pets and your family.

From Tina's perspective, she now finds herself in a situation that is causing her additional stress in the form of being locked away and/or separated from the other dogs and possibly the humans. That additional stress may also be escalating the bad behavior.

We had a super sweet black lab mix, but she had a few habits that were nearly impossible to break. One of them was killing and/or injuring small animals. In her case, she wasn't vicious, she just wanted to play but she was much too rough. I had to keep her and my little dog separated all the time because the rambunctious dog was much too big and rough around the little one. The little one hated her. We made it work, but it would have been so much easier if everyone could have been together without constant vigilance. We often joked that the bigger dog was lucky we took her because no one else would have put up with her and some of her behaviors. We loved her, but looking back, she was a lot of work and caused a lot of stress/problems.

Do yourselves (including Tina) a favor, take her back and remove this unwanted stress from your home. You haven't failed her; she just didn't work out for reasons that couldn't be known at the time of the adoption. Hopefully, she will find a home that does work in much the way that the pup Amy mentioned above did. She's not happy now and neither are you, nor are the rest of the family members in your home. Best of luck to you; I know it's hard to go through something like this.

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chisue

Remove 'Tina' from your home. If the shelter she came from will take her back, fine. Tell them what has happened. If the shelter will not take her back, I would euthanize her.

Being kind to animals ranks miles below the welfare of your family -- as a message you are sending your girls.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but...in the face of shaky finances...I don't understand why you have multiple dogs.



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marilyn_c

Watchme is very right about heelers....they are high energy dogs that need an outlet for that energy.

I won't keep a dog that is a biter or aggressive to other animals. It is a lawsuit waiting to happen. You have to be ultra vigilant about keeping them separate. And a dog that is kept confined, away from other dogs in the family, is much more apt to become more aggressive. Another thing, dogs are intensely jealous...some more than others...of other other dogs in the household.

Your problem is worse because it is your daughter's dog. I hope if you explain it to her, she will understand. If you get another dog, I would suggest a puppy, but your other dogs aren't going to be thrilled about a new dog, after the terror wrought by this one. And it is very frightening for a little dog, who has had a place in the family, to have a new one come in and attack it.

I was recently given a dog back that I sent to a rescue 8 months ago, as a pup. I was told she was a biter. My friend, who had suggested the rescue to me, is the one who wanted her sent back to me, and she is a good friend of the director. I didn't understand why they didn't put her down. I told my friend, if she shows any aggression, I will put her down. She hasn't and is going to be okay, but when you get a dog that is a year old...such as your dog, and my new dog, you seldom really know much of how they were handled or what they have been subjected to.

Good luck with helping your daughter understand. If it was my dog, I would send her back.

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sleeperblues

Blue heelers should not be pets. My parents had one, and he was extremely loyal to them but he actually tried to eat my daughter when she was a baby. He also bit people. My niece adopted one, a mix with heeler, a couple of years ago and spent thousands to train her but she still will attack little dogs. At least my niece has the lifestyle that the dog gets tons of exercise. I had a rescue gone bad with a biter that I posted on here a couple of years ago. After a couple of months, we brought him back to the shelter where I would assume he was put down. I learned my lesson, and we did bring in a special behaviorlist to try to train him. Tina needs to go before her aggression escalates.

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desertsteph

She can be rehomed. My previous girl was in a no kill shelter. She couldn't go to anyone with kids or other pets. they waived the requirement for fencing because she could jump a 6 ft fence. She was crazy and silly and had a weird bark howl combination. she was a beautiful retriever / heeler mix. she was about 2 and with me for 15 yrs before she got her wings. I gave her a fitting name - Savage. a few yrs later I took in another dog (who was being abused) just untl I could find him a home. I had him for over 10 yrs until he got his wings. I didn't let them physically be together but they were buddies, the neighbor boy (about 6) came to visit often enough that he became their 'boy'. His 2 dogs often came over with him (and without him). if they needed help, food or water, they came here. so my dog who couldn't be around kids or dogs ended up around a kid and dogs and all was fine.

the girl I have now was rehomed and given back. Then I took her and found out why. I figured if I didn't keep her, no one would. She's still here after 8 yrs. she was a real pistol for the first 2 yrs or so (a puppy) but a ton of fun and laughter.

Tina probably needs someone who is older, has patience, loves dogs and has lots of time and is mostly home with her. And there's most likely someone out there who needs her too.


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bob_cville

> Remove 'Tina' from your home.

This is my vote as well. I posted here back in August about one boarder's German Shepard who attacked and killed another boarder's Yorkie. I subsequently found that the GSD had previously "gone after" the Yorkie and injured it. That was dismissed as "a misunderstanding" or "playing too aggressively" and I since learned that a determined effort was made to ensure that that wouldn't happen again, but all it took was a few seconds.

All my best to little Yoda for his recovery. May the force be with him. :-)

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Texas_Gem

Thank you everyone for giving me the message I needed to hear.

She can't stay, she isn't happy and she is a danger to my other pets.

We adopted her from our local animal control, she was a stray that was picked up and lived at the shelter for about 8 weeks. She was on the kill list when we adopted her due to her long stay. There is no requirement to return her to them.

I haven't cancelled my appointment with the specialist. I will meet with her in the morning and see if she can assist with rehoming. She knows a lot more people than I do and Tina obviously needs a specific type of home.

Perhaps the trainer will have someone in mind, or at least give me some tips to find them. If we can't rehome her quickly, then she will be taken back to the shelter.

Again, thank you for giving me the hard truth I needed to hear.

I feel like a failure, this has never happened to me before.

It will be a difficult conversation with my daughter...

Chisue- while I understand what you are saying, I don't agree. All of my pets are spayed/neutered, current on their vaccines and receive routine veterinary care.

That my family is in a financial position that an unexpected 700 dollar bill is a hardship doesn't mean we shouldn't have pets.

As long as poor people can provide the basic necessities and care for an animal, there is no reason why they should be denied the joys of pet ownership.

There are countless studies that show numerous health benefits to owning pets. I can't think of any group of people that needs these benefits more than poor people.

Thank you again everyone for your feedback.

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blfenton

The importance and emotional attachment that people have with their pets has been borne out in natural disasters which is why when rescuers are rescuing people they now also save their pets. It's sometimes all they have left and it's an important part of their ability to move forward.

Texas_gem - I'm with you. The value of pet ownership and what they offer to a person cannot be underestimated. I truly hope that there is a home for Tina and thank-you for taking the time to still meet with the trainer to see if there is a place for her.

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jemdandy

Don't fight nature. Remove Tina to new home or shelter. The attack on small, yappy dogs is ingrained by now. Even with huge amounts of training, Tina can not be trusted to not attack a little rat-like dog that happens to annoy.

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Texas_Gem

I realize this isn't Reddit and there is no "cat tax" involved but I did want to let everyone know that Yoda is acting completely normally today, thankfully.

If he didn't have a drain tube sticking out the back of his neck, I wouldn't even know he was injured.

He has been happy, running around, greeting me, wagging his tail, jumping in my lap, generally his normal self.

Here is a pic of him and Leia waiting patiently for me to give them their treats this evening.



Hard to believe these are the same two pups from this pic, right after I found Leia, May 2017.


Thank you again everyone.

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jane__ny

I agree you should probably return her to the shelter, however there are many reasons this is occurring and could be worked with. I don't believe it has anything to do with prey drive. It is pack behavior and she is dominate and wanting to 'rule the roost.' You have multiple dogs and females. In any pack there is always one alpha male and one alpha female. She wants to be alpha and the other dogs have to accept that or she will kill them.


Sounds horrible but it is dog behavior and it serves them well in the wild, not so much in a household. The solution is for you and your family to be alpha. She is taking over and she should be strongly corrected at any attempt to lead the pack. She is not seeing any dog or person as being alpha.


You can do this, but it is difficult with her type of personality and it would involve the entire family or she will turn on one of you eventually. Unless you are prepared to get the whole family involved with a lot of tough training (not abusive), you should return her. It is not worth trying to deal with this. Too difficult at this point.


Jane

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lily316

You are not a failure. Some things don't work out. The anxiety of having an unpredictable dog would drive me nuts. I have three cats and two dogs and have come to believe I am so lucky because everyone gets along more or less. Wally the 14-year-old dachshund, doesn't like anyone too near his bed. He has a zone. The Maine coon and one of the cats I just rescued six months ago were licking each other two inches from his bed tonight. He gave a RUFF and they ran. He's such a little tyrant. But he's the one I was walking when we found the Maine coon in the alley and he went right up to him and neither were afraid. I couldn't live one day without a pet.

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chisue

We will have to differ on this topic. Pets have become a hugely profitable *business* in America -- while children are homeless and hungry in America. My point is a confusion of priorities.



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share_oh

We had a similar problem with our boxer mix years back. He was young and very aggressive. We figured out he wasn't really aggressive, he was fearful. It took my husband working with him every day to show him he was boss and that Brodie was safe with him. He was attacking our golden, who was his same size. We kept him separate from her whenever we weren't home. It took time, but it worked out and they became friends.

However, with Tina attacking such a small dog, I'd be worried sick. I hope the trainer can give you some good advice. We had a trainer come for Brodie and his advice was to tire him out. Not really helpful in our situation.

Unfortunately it sounds like the shelter she came from is a kill-shelter and they will definitely put her down if you tell them she attacked another dog. But, you can't not tell them and have them adopt her out to someone else. Those kill shelters really don't have time or space or money to take in dogs who aren't as easily adoptable as other dogs.

My heart breaks for you in this situation. It really does. : (

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matti5

I'm so sorry, this is a very difficult position to be in. Please don't say you failed, you are doing all you possibly can to make this work. I've volunteered for several years at my county shelter, SPCA and with various rescue groups. I've seen hundreds of pets successfully rehomed due to behavioral issues.

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DawnInCal

If you want to give her another chance, how about contacting heeler or herding dog rescue groups in your area? The people associated with this breed would understand what makes a dog like Tina tick and what sort of home she needs to be in to be successful dog. Seeing that you are going to keep your appt with the trainer tomorrow, she will have suggestions for you as well. It's very possible that Tina can find a new home where she will thrive and blossom.

If, for some reason, things don't work out for Tina, please don't blame yourself. You haven't failed her. You're giving her every chance that you possibly can to have a future. It's just that life is hard sometimes, and not always fair, both for humans and other animals.

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Elmer J Fudd

jane, I think the - alpha dog, leader of the pack- notion is an old chestnut that has fallen into disfavor. As with humans, what we can call anti-social or troubled behavior can stem from a variety of causes that aren't immediately apparent - social, experiential, psychological, and even medical reasons, individually or in combination, can be the cause. Often with dogs, not treatable, because behaviors tend to get repeated.

To use an old cliche, with dogs, aggressive behavior is often a slippery slope that gets worse and rarely better. This dog has already attacked other dogs seriously, and people may be next. Not a risk worth taking.

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patriceny

100% agree with everything Elmer just wrote. So glad to see Texas Gem already said the dog has to go - and hopefully is already gone. The dog already "accidentally" got loose once and with children around this is a shocking risk not worth taking.

I love dogs (I have no children and my dogs mean the world to me), and there is no way this dog would be spending another night in my home.

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amylou321

As someone who has rescued former fighting pit bulls (multiple) I can tell you that aggressive behavior can absolutely be reformed. Muffin, my German Shepard was extremely dog aggressive when she came to us,but no more. Its possible and even probable that Tina's behavior can be fixed. Heelers are an intelligent breed,but need a firm hand and a job to do. But Texas gem has said she doesn't really have the finances to pay a professional to do it,and I know she has a largish family to raise and care for and may not have the time. I think she has made the right decision in rehoming her.

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marilyn_c

"....children are homeless and hungry."

Well, what if bullfrogs had wings?

I sincerely doubt Texas Gem's children are "homeless " or "hungry". Because some children are, Texas Gem shouldn't have pets?? I don't see the connection.

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chisue

I was responding to our OP's statement that their finances are too tight to spend a lot of money on vet bills.

Many Americans say they couldn't come up with $500 for a family emergency. I put human beings ahead of animals. I put family security ahead of pets. (How many pets are 'enough'?)

It's 'nice' to care about animal welfare. However, I am dumbfounded that Americans spend billions on pets while American children go without food or shelter. I don't understand such 'priorities'.

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arkansas girl

I don't get it, so what, am I supposed to go around feeding homeless children and not spend any money for raising and caring for my dog?

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Of course not!! One gets to decide on what they want to spend their funds on however limited, whether it meets with everyone else's approval or not. And despite how others may perceive it, many consider their pets family members - especially singles, the elderly and those who are childless. Spending what they can afford on their pets - and sometimes more than they can easily afford, as vet bills and training fees are horrendous - is no different to them than someone else going into debt to send their kids to a private school or to fund ballet or ice skating lessons.

You may not understand those priorities but then you don't need to - they are not yours and you don't get to decide what priorities others may follow.

I can tell you right now that a $700 vet bill would set me back as well. But if it were an emergency and necessary to ensure my dog's life, I'd come up with the funds somehow......just like you would if your child needed expensive emergency care.

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amylou321

Most people would find an unexpected $700 bill for ANYTHING, not just something pet related, distressing. I would, even though me and SO could come up with it. If i find it a hardship to pay a $700 car repair bill, it doesn't mean i don't deserve to have a car, because someone else somewhere else has fallen on hard times and someone elses' kids are hungry. WHAT?

Texas Gem, in particular, has done plenty to help those hungry children you are so concerned about. I remember her wonderful and successful campaign this past holiday season to fundraise for and organize those food baskets for hungry families. She does that every year, i think.

It is not nice to pass judgement on the priorities of someone who takes care of her own kids AND pets, and others who spend THEIR money on THEIR pets, instead of OTHER PEOPLES hungry children. If you want to rail on someone, perhaps those people who wont provide the basics for their own children,despite numerous programs to help them do so,(no such government program exists for pets, that i know of) should be chided, not those who have no obligation or responsibility to them, and certainly provide for their own, as Texas Gem does. And certainly not those who do help those children, as she also does.

As for how many pets are enough, as many as one wants and can care for. She took the injured dog to the vet, even though it was a hardship. She provided the care the pup required. How many of other peoples hungry and homeless children does she have to feed and shelter before she is allowed to feed, shelter, and provide care for the pets she wants? Pets are an investment. They bring numerous physical and mental health benefits for the whole family, children included.

So many things are exclusive to the wealthy, pets are one joy that are not. sheesh

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Lucille

I am dumbfounded that Americans spend billions on pets while American children go without food or shelter. I don't understand such 'priorities'.


Chisue there are wonderful older Mother Theresa type people who open orphanages and devote their lives to homeless children. It is not easy for one person to do something of that scope in America (because of paperwork and rules) but there are plenty of seniors who adopt, especially the hard to adopt teenagers. Have you looked into this, since you seem so passionate about children who need homes? Do your own priorities reach to those homeless youngsters? It does seem from the things you say that you are pretty comfortable, financially...

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Elmer J Fudd

amylou, every individual animal is an individual. Through luck of the draw you may have encountered the minority whose behavior can be altered. For my friend with the dog that developed vicious behavior, the dog in question was a pit bull and it was a trainer specializing in problem ones who recommended euthanasia. But I guess you know better.


The vets and trainers whose advice I've gotten disagree with you. I can leave it at that.

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amylou321

Yes your one friend who had one problematic dog is more likely the standard than someone who has rescued and reformed half a dozen or more such dogs. Sure Jan. And no, you certainly know more than anyone about anything, because other people you know or are related to have the education and experience. Hey, I have a brother who is an aerospace engineer, that makes me an expert right? OOOO, more on topic, I have a vet who takes care of my animals, so, I guess that DOES make me a super expert on all thing pet related right? My brother in law is a contractor, so if anyone has any repairs or remodels that need to be done,I am your gal, I know someone with the actual skills and experience, so i can tell you everything you need to know about it. I mean, i never built a house, but i have a hammer......somewhere.

There are many vets and trainers who would disagree with your experts Elmer,including my own vet. Get over it. Vets and trainers are individuals too, with individual skill levels, experience, and opinions. I am neither and have the ACTUAL experience to tell you that it can be done. As you just said, animals are individuals. And as individuals, some are more likely to take to training and behavior modification than others. No, you can't save every one, that doesn't mean they are all beyond hope. You have explicitly said before that you don't like the entire pit bull breed. Your general dislike of an entire group of ANYTHING shows your general close mindedness.

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Elmer J Fudd

Get over it.

Good advice for you. It's always a head scratcher when amateurs deputize and annoint themselves as knowing more than true experts. It happens more often than one would expect.

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amylou321

That all you got?

Yes, that happens EVERY time you come to these discussions and spout your "expertise" on stuff you have never done ( as I HAVE actually helped these dogs, you have NOT), because you know someone who does something somewhat related to the topic. Your ABSOLUTE inability to see this in yourself is disturbing.I have never actually claimed to be an expert or a professional. Indeed, I explicitly said i was not. I simply shared what I MYSELF have done in my personal life. You, on the other hand, have repeatedly, and on several topics, dismissed other peoples ACTUAL experience in favor of random opinions given to you by someone you know who may or may not know what the heck they are talking about. And you do it in a condescending,asinine way that makes you look boorish and foolish. And to be honest, I find your constant insistence that you HAPPEN to have had a discussion about the EXACT topic we are discussing with someone you personally know that just HAPPENS to be an expert (no doubt, the only one on earth and therefore the only one to be believed) in that particular field to be unlikely, if not an outright fabrication sometimes.

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amylou321

Texas Gem, how did the visit with the trainer go?

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Elmer J Fudd

"Yes, that happens EVERY time you come to these discussions and spout your "expertise" on stuff you have never done ( as I HAVE actually helped these dogs, you have NOT), because you know someone who does something somewhat related to the topic. "


I know a lot of people with true expertise in a wide variety of areas and when I relate what such experts have told me, I describe it as such. I pay no attention to self-appointed, untrained/uneducated authorities, neither you nor anyone else. You must not know any such experts yourself and that's why you doubt that I do. Sorry for you for not having resources to consult with but that doesn't change anything.

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amylou321

Yes, don't pay attention to me. I have just done it. You haven't. Ask your many experts to justify that thinking. Then pick the one that gives you the answer that best lines up with your own opinion.

What if Texas Gems expert says that the dog CAN be successfully reformed? I have certainly seen it,and again,have done it myself with dogs that others would have killed immediately. Does it make that expert untrained and uneducated,because they may disagree with an expert whose opinion YOU share?

My own vet fervently believes in the ability to correct a pets behavior,and gave me lots of tips(that I already had employed in the past) when Muffin came in to his office growling and snapping at the other dogs. He has the education, the training and the experience. But his opinion differs from your relative and whatever trainer you talked to. So which one is right?

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tjkeen

Lucille, what does that mean?

Looks like it is time for Elmer to see the missus again.

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Texas_Gem

So, the very first thing the trainer noted is that Tina is NOT a heeler mix like the shelter had said, she is a Catahoula mix, probably with some pit.

For those that aren't familiar with Catahoulas and their behavior, here is a brief description that is surprisingly accurate.

"Catahoulas are highly intelligent and energetic. They are assertive dogs, but can also have issues with interdog aggression-Aggression, destructive behavior, and undesirable behaviors all begin when inadequate mental and physical exercise is provided. "

She is dog aggressive towards small dogs, not towards larger ones and not towards humans.

She could be rehomed to either a single dog home or one with other medium to large dogs. Just no small animals and we MUST disclose her history (which of course we would do)

She didn't flip a switch, we just didn't see the signs that it was building until it was too late.

To her, it's a game and they are prey, like a rabbit would be. She didn't initially view small dogs this way, like I said, it was a learned behavior.

It can't be unlearned though. She could be taught, with a LOT of work and effort, to wear a muzzle and be on leash at ALL times around small animals, my trainer actually has done this before.

So, the things in her favor for rehoming is:

Spayed

Chipped

Crate trained

Knows basic obedience

Highly intelligent

Only a year old so still easily trained- would be great for herding

Good with kids

Her behavior was NOT sudden, it was learned

She's a gorgeous animal (it's sad but true that a lot of people would be more attracted to her because she's good looking)


Things not in her favor-

The severity of this last attack


I will get the final report from her in a few days. In the meantime, she gave us some tips.

She must sleep in her crate and it must be covered so that she can't do any aggressive posturing towards my littles.

At least two locked doors between them at all times (something we are already doing)

She must be exercised at least 30 minutes a day to help wear her out- these issues developed BECAUSE she wasn't getting enough physical and mental exercise.


Luckily we live in ranch country. Husband is going to reach out to several people he knows that have ranches to see if anyone would be interested in her.

Thanks again for the support.


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colleenoz

Lucille, I know exactly what you mean by your last remark. It was inappropriate when you said it before, it’s inappropriate now, and beneath you.

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graywings123

I know a lot of people with true expertise in a wide variety of areas
and when I relate what such experts have told me, I describe it as such.
I pay no attention to self-appointed, untrained/uneducated authorities,
neither you nor anyone else.

Elmer Fudd: When I and others are making statements on these forums, we are using similar bases for our comments. It's just easier not to present our bona fides each time.

I wrote the first comment, which if you go back and read, is consistent with what the trainer told Texas Gem. And the reason I wrote that - but didn't feel the need to mention - is that I have worked with multiple dog trainers and multiple dogs over 15 years of dog rescuing and rehoming. Including the one sitting here next to me who is dog reactive.

Think about how much you know because you have lived in this world as long as you have and have experienced life. Other people have too, and we are sharing our wisdom here with each other. People can take it or leave it, but personal experience is valuable.


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marilyn_c

Texas Gem, I think the fact that she is a catahoula (or part) will be beneficial to her finding a home. I have almost always had a catahoula. Have one now. They are very good at moving cattle. I have used mine when my horses got out and I was by myself, to go turn them around. She will stop when I say "enough". They are also stop action dogs. I have never had one be aggressive ( as far as fighting with them goes) to other dogs, but the one I had before this one would lay on top of other dogs to assert herself. They are also extremely protective of their owners.

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patriceny

Chisue has occasionally posted similar sentiments. I remember them because they stick with me.

I don't have human children. My dogs are my children. I refer to them as my furry children. I know that bothers a few select people. I really couldn't possibly care less.

There are approximately eleventy-million government and social programs for children. There are almost none for dogs. In many places dogs are still viewed only as property (rather than a living being) and don't really merit much (if any) protections against inhumane actions.

I donate to several local and national rescue groups and love doing so. I love being able to help animals who have been abused and neglected - and support their medical care with the goal of helping them to find a good forever home.

I am well aware that, again, a few select people will take issue with that. It boggles my mind that other people think it their purview to try to prioritize how other people should spend money - particularly discretionary money! - but I guess it takes all kinds.

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raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

I have followed the discussion of experience with aggressive dogs with interest, because there is one living next door. My neighbors (great neighbors in all other respects but much younger than I & we don't really socialize) adopted this one several years ago, and it has always made sure to bark in a way that sounds aggressive to me and lunge at the fence at me for a few minutes, if I happen to be out in the back yard when he is let out. When my DD was staying with me with her own (fortunately submissive-natured) dog, the neighbor's dog would go into a frenzy if they were out at the same time - we learned to always check for him before letting ours out. Yet I see this dog being well behaved on a leash when walked.

They adopted a second dog that was always quite friendly. The 2 dogs seemed to be fine together, but the first one ramped up his aggressive behavior toward us when they were both out.

Then I noticed few months ago that the 2nd dog was gone. They told me that they had re-homed her because, after their baby came, dog #1 had become aggressive toward #2.

A few weeks ago I was talking to the neighbor over the fence, while dog #1 was also out. He didn't go through his usual aggressive barking but was right there - then he just lunged at me over the fence (he is a large dog) and bit me on the forearm. I think that I had stepped forward slightly at that moment, which he must have interpreted as a threat to his owner.

Fortunately I was wearing 2 layers, so the although bite broke the skin and bruised my arm, it didn't penetrate. Neighbor apologized profusely and asked repeatedly if I was okay, which I assured him I was. He said the dog was up to date on vaccines.

But I do wonder that they have not followed up with me to make sure the wounds healed okay, and the dog is still let out unsupervised several times a day. I am debating asking them if they intend to do anything about his aggressive behavior now that he has actually injured someone. I know I could report the attack but I am reluctant to make that move.

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Some dogs are extremely territorial and will be aggressive against anything they think is a threat against what they consider their property or their people. They are just over protective. Which could explain why the dog is perfectly sociable when on a leash away from the home but was aggressive towards you over the fence (you got too close :-)) Could also explain why it became aggressive towards dog #2 once the baby arrived.....another family member it saw as its duty to protect against the interloper.

This is something that can be trained into a less aggressive behavior but the dog still remains protective of his people and property. Often just by alerting or barking.

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patriceny

Owning a dog, and doing it well, is a serious time commitment. In my opinion, way too many people obtain a dog on impulse and don't put enough time and effort into making the dog a good canine citizen. That can lead to all sorts of behavioral problems.

Speaking only for me, the risk of owning an aggressive dog will always outweigh the benefits. If anyone hasn't put any thought into the legal liabilities of a dog bite, they're living in a blissful ignorance which may hurt them badly. Aside from all the personal liability (lots of money to be made in dog bites as there's no guaranteed good defense!) you can find it difficult/impossible to get home owner's insurance coverage after a reported dog bite.

Every now and then you'll find someone who understands what they are doing in owning an aggressive dog, they respect what they have undertaken, and then go to great lengths to ensure no tragedies. Sadly, most people seem to have no clue and in those cases it's only a matter of time and how much trauma and/or money it may cost them.

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blfenton

Texas_gem - It sounds like the trainer session was a really good idea for Tina and her behaviour sounds like it can be corrected. I hope you can find a home for her with the new information that you have.

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DawnInCal

Texas_gem, the trainer's report sounds really encouraging. It would be terrific if Tina could find a home where she'd get the physical and mental stimulation that she needs. I hope you are feeling better about the situation now. As always, best of luck!

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Suzieque

For those that seem to think that people are choosing animals over hungry/homeless children, please be aware that many, many people contribute to (or otherwise support) a variety of charities and causes. Not just animals. Not just homeless. Not just hunger. Etc. Some people distribute their discretionary funds to multiple things that they believe in. Myself included. They're not mutually exclusive.

And if anyone says "I have no discretionary funds", well, if you only have $1 to give, that would be a very generous gift.

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blfenton

OT - just a couple of quick remarks

Where I live, food banks have started to ask for, to buy and to give out pet food if needed. But it sounds like some may think that this is a waste of resources and that families who fall on hard times should have to give up their pets. I disagree.

Also some homeless people have their own dogs and I suspect that for them that is the only steady part of their lives, the one part where unconditional love and companionship exists. Some shelters have now become pet friendly and in at least one nearby community vets volunteer their services once a year to give a free check up to those pets owned by the homeless.

i don't think that the value of having a pet can ever be undervalued and research is bearing that out. It's also why more and more senior facilities (including the ones where my mom and MIL live) have dogs that live in the residence.

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chisue

DH and I have had pet dogs most of our married life (50+ years). I'm just very aware of how big an industry pets have become in the US. (I don't know about other countries.) I was pretty surprised when I totaled up what we spent on our last Westie from puppy rescue to age 15 . He required special food and had ailments that resulted in constant vet bills all of his life. It made me think how much difference that money would have made in a person's life.

Animal charities must be awash in funding, given the expensive TV ads we see. Thousands of shelters employ people to feed an *endless* supply of dogs and cats. It's a huge industry, and you can see in this thread the rancor one receives to question it.

I'm not anti-pet. I do question how far overboard our society seems to have gone in this direction. All of our personal charities serve basic human needs. One of my favorites is called Mother's Trust -- helping with 'beyond basic' needs of children for small things like new glasses, uniforms, a party dress, bus fare, etc. *I* would rather fund these things. Others may not, but whatever a person decides, there's only just so much in that discretionary 'pot'.

That's all. I'm sorry to have distracted from the issue at hand with Texas_Gem's daughter's dog.

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patriceny

Chisue - I agree with you that the pet industry is big business. Any time an industry gets as big as this one is, it can create interesting behavior to ensure/sustain their continued growth. We agree on this point.

However, the "rancor" you feel is not based on questioning what that industry may be promoting - but rather the way you specifically question the "priorities" (your own words) of actual individual posters here.

This is not the first time you've made very pointed (and in my opinion mean spirited) comments toward people here who are choosing to live their life in a way you don't approve. It is 100% your right to hold whatever opinion you want, all I would say is that you may (or may not?) wish to consider how you share your thoughts on the issue in the future.

It's one thing to talk about how big business may be driving or creating weird behavior at a societal level - however it's another thing all together to call someone stupid and inhumane (from a prior thread). The pet industry obviously bothers you and again, that's fine - but please don't take it out on individual people with name-calling and by casting aspersions.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Texas Gem, good luck finding her a new home. I had to comment because when we adopted Nigel about 10 years ago, he was also listed as an Aussie heeler at the shelter. He was about a year old at the time. I knew he wasn’t that, but it took my vet to tell me he is mostly Catahoula. He is submissive to my female dog (about 15 pounds lighter than he is). He can ignore really small dogs, but does act aggressive toward big dogs. Does Tina have the same colors as Nigel? My vet said they often put the heeler tag on dogs with that color.


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Texas_Gem

Raee- oh my goodness, that is horrible. I know many can be rehabbed that have shown territorial behaviors and/or aggression to humans but, at least for me, I could never have a dog that has shown aggression to humans in my home. I just wouldn't want to risk it with my children.

Here is Tina, she has the characteristic heterochromia that Catahoulas have but the real tell tell, according to the trainer, was her spots. You can't tell from these pictures but she has overlapping different colored spots (like a leopard??), dark brown on top of reddish brown, which is apparently a very unusual coloring that very few breeds have.


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blfenton

what a sweetie! Look at those eyes. Awwww

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Ladydi Zone 7A NW BC Canada

Texas_Gem, Tina is just beautiful ... complete with one blue eye.

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Texas_Gem

Can I get some feedback/opinion on this flyer? This is a rough first draft.



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arkansas girl

I'm not much of a story teller but it looks OK to me other than the left out word in the sentence "look like toys TO me". You left the word "to" out. You could say somewhere that she is fine with dogs that are about her same size.

She is very adorable and you know, a lot of dogs will attack small animals. We had an incident here where my neighbor has his little dog outside on a tie out just for a few minutes to go potty. Just so happened, the other neighbor's two large dogs got out and were roaming and one of the large dogs attacked the little one but luckily the man was home and got out there FAST or the little one would have been killed. The two big dogs aren't bad dogs, they just cannot be around little ones.

My friend has a husky that will kill any small animal that gets into his yard, not other dogs though, but a cat or a rabbit, coon etc. They will be toast!

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aok27502

Can you work her breed into the flyer? "Mom says I'm a Catahoula, but I'm sure there is no cat in me!" Also, would it be possible to get a happier picture? She looks a little grumpy and fearsome in those.

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Michele

That’s the only thing I noticed. The word “to” left out.

Good luck. I hope it works out somehow. She’s a beautiful dog. She could be a great help to someone with a job for her to do.

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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

I think she looks adorable in the pictures. Both capture her sweetness.

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nickel_kg

Love aok's "cat" joke! Maybe you haven't shown us the whole flyer, but do you actually state somewhere that this dog needs to be re-homed? Free to good home, I presume? (Oh and can she live with cats, do you know, or do they fit in as small animals she can't live with)

Very good write up; Tina looks very smart and appealing. When you first posted I was so afraid this story would end up badly for the dog ... but now it looks so hopeful.

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sleeperblues

I hope Tina finds a good home. I think your flyer is great, it accurately describes what is going on with her and the fact that whoever adopts her will need to exercise her and keep her away from small dogs. I hope she finds her forever home!

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nicole___

I love the photos of Tina! The flyer looks good! I have high hopes she finds an active new home.

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blfenton

.I agree with adding her breed and maybe a sentence about them so that people understand why she needs the exercise etc.

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Rusty

Tina looks very alert and lovable in those pictures, I think. And maybe just a bit wistful, like she's yearning for some love. Makes me want to hug her!

I love the way you've worded the flyer! I didn't even notice the missing 'to', but I have a tendency to read things as my mind thinks they should be rather than how they are.

I do agree that you should add that Tina needs a new home, rather than just a dog-sitter or play date, as current wording could be interpreted. Also maybe include size (weight)? And definitely include breed!

Your flyer is well done and attractive, I'm hoping just the right person will see it and give Tina the home she deserves.

Rusty

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share_oh

I love the picture on the flyer! She looks sweet. I'd definitely include her breed, some people may be looking for that specifically.

Please don't give her away for free! You need to charge a re-homing fee. Too many bad people are out there wanting free dogs to use either as bait dogs or to sell to laboratories. We had someone around here years ago who would send his sweet (acting) wife to get dogs for him. Ugh. I hate people sometimes.

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chisue

I find this misleading. Tina wasn't playing with your other dogs. From what you said, she would have killed them if you had not intervened. Did I read that wrong?

I apologize if I have hurt anyone's feelings. I only wanted to challenge a sentiment that appears to equate animals with people. This is not saying animals don't have value, or that some people find *people* more difficult than animals! lol


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murraysmom Zone 6a OH

I agree to add her breed and that she is being re-homed. Also instead of saying "I don't go potty in the house anymore", I would just say that she is housebroken.

Also I would just say that "I am really great with kids. Seriously not a fan of small animals of any kind. I would love a home where I'm the only star or maybe share with another dog my size."

Yes, you should add her weight since it's hard to judge her size from her beautiful pictures. I think Tina will be able to find the right home for her. I'm sure it's hard for you but you know you are doing the right thing for all concerned.

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DawnInCal

I agree with chisue on the point about small animals. Saying she hurts small animals because she wants to play makes it sound like she's just a big ol' clumsy goof who tripped over a little dog one time. I'd be very clear that she does not get along with small dogs and/or cats, otherwise you could end up with more trouble on your hands. It's not at all unusual for dogs to be like this and I see shelters ads for dogs all the time that say the animal doesn't get along with little dogs and cats. I don't think that will hurt her chances, but being honest about it will go a long ways towards making sure she finds the right kind of home. None of us want to see Tina back to square one because she ends up back in the same sort of situation she's in now.

I also don't see anything about her breed or size on the flyer. I think that she's a catahoula/pitt mix along with her weight should be included as well. She's a very cute dog, but I can definitely see the pitt in her head shape and facial features. That's another thing potential adopters should know. Lots of people love pitts, but others won't have one in their house.

You're off to a good start, but I'd definitely mention those very important details. You can be honest about her and her issues and still take a positive and upbeat tone in your flyer.

Good luck to you and Tina!

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Suzieque

Yes, PLEASE do not give her away for free! This is bad. Share_oh said it correctly.

And I agree that you shouldn't say that she thinks of smaller animals as toys. To server Tina best, please be completely honest about that behavior. Otherwise, someone else may think it's minor and that they can correct it, and end up with a dead pet and/or come to know that Tina is dangerous and then rehome her again .... and again ....

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marilyn_c

She certainly is a beautiful dog! I think she will definitely find a home, and I am glad you are taking this route to find a home for her, rather than sending her back to the pound. Even the humane society and SPCA puts down dogs. Some shelters here will automatically put down pit bulls and pit crosses. Texas needs stringent laws concerning having dogs and cats spayed. Most rescues send their dogs to the east or west coast to be homed there.

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Elmer J Fudd

TG, I think your flyer is misleading because of how you've essentially whitewashed and avoided mentioning the problem by using cute words. "I guess that I was too rough with them". Really? She nearly killed your dog and has attacked other dogs on several occasions when given the opportunity.

I know your intentions are good but I don't know how you think it fair to avoid calling a spade a spade. You're trying to rid yourself of the problem by passing it on to someone else. The dog has shown dangerous attack behavior and can't be trusted. You haven't clearly said that. How would you feel in a home with a small baby and this dog, and you need to walk out of the room to do something? You didn't mention anything about that.

If you were on the receiving end, you'd want to know the truth and upon learning it, you'd probably decline taking this dog. Trying to pass the problem on to someone else by withholding significant facts could make you liable for any damages or injury this dog causes at a future date.

Return the dog to the shelter it came from and make sure they know why. You're not responsible for this dog's unfortunate personality but you would be responsible for the consequences of any unfortunate future incidents if you're not careful about it.

I'm sorry for the tough love but honestly, it's not worth the risk. Good luck.

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nickel_kg

Good point ya'll about avoiding "Free to good home", I hadn't thought about creeps with bad intentions. Good catch.

edited to add: Especially with this dog, I think the flyer is only the starting point of a conversation. I'm sure you want to ensure any potential new owner understands fully what they are getting into, and are prepared to deal with it.

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patriceny

Ok, so the woman who has worked in insurance with legal issues her entire professional career has to once again agree with Elmer's advice above.

My opinion is that dog needs to go back to the shelter from whence it came, and it needs to go yesterday.

Your intentions are so admirable and I adore your tender heart - but you are potentially creating an extremely dangerous situation which could boomerang back onto you in many bad ways.

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matti5

Tina is a beautiful girl!

Did you contact rescue groups?

Regarding the flyer. I would change the sentence about Tina not being able to live with small animals. The way it is currently worded glosses over the issue. Maybe word it "I can not live with small animals, I'll let my mom tell you more about that".

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maddielee

What is the age of the youngest child this animal has been around? please don’t say it loves kids if it can’t be trusted around a crawling baby or infant.

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raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

Also agree about rephrasing your flier. Don't try to be minimizing her behavior; you might not be really trying to do that but the cute language seems to.

Describe her breed (include what catahoulas are bred for), her size, her training so far, and describe her needs bluntly. It was smart to include that she needs a "job" - emphasize that. Also that you have found her to be affectionate but that she wasn't right for your home environment and she needs to be the only pet.

Since she does display aggression I also would be concerned about who adopts her. A small fee might not be enough to deter someone who wants her for fighting. If you can't find a rescue organization to take her and re-home her, at least deliver the dog yourself and insist on seeing the circumstances the best you can. No guarantees with that but better than nothing, I think.

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arkansas girl

I disagree, I think this behavior is very common in larger dogs! I hear this from people all the time, I'm a regular dog park member. There are also a lot of dogs that end up not being able to come to the dog park because they cannot interact with even dogs their own size. This is nothing new! It happens all the time. I do agree that she needs to be straight forward about what happened and the danger she would pose to a small animal; dog, cat etc etc. Please do not sugar coat it! It really isn't that big of a deal as far as I'm concerned. I do not think this would stop me from adopting a dog, I would just know that I would not be able to own a small dog or cat. Not a big deal to me! There is no reason that Tina cannot find a good loving home with some big dogs to play with or in an only dog home with active owners.

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Elmer J Fudd

"I think this behavior is very common in larger dogs! "

I couldn't disagree more, after a lifetime of having only large dogs in my home.

Little yappy dogs seem much more likely to bite and pick fights. But I wouldn't generalize.

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arkansas girl

Elmer, how much time do you spend at the dog park every day? I go every day and encounter lots of people and dogs in the years that I have been going. We talk about our dogs and dog issues. I couldn't disagree with YOU MORE! You also just said that you have ONLY LARGE DOGS in your home...so just exactly how do you know that if you brought a little dog into your house that one of your large dogs would not go after it? There are several people that are members of our dog park group that go daily that their dog will kill any small animal that would be in front of it! They wouldn't just get rid of their dogs because of this behavior! They just know that they have to keep them separated from small animals!

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eld6161

Meet mine. He is a pit/mix with aggressive issues.

It takes a serious person to have a dog like this.

Your flyer is not a good idea. I agree with Elmer. The wording is misleading. Only someone experienced and dedicated can handle this type of dog.

How would you feel if you passed her on and she did much worse?

And I agree with someone using her for dog fighting or as bait.

She needs to be returned to the shelter unless someone you know who knows what happened is up for the task.

ETA without reading your post it was obvious to me she is a pit/ mix

Add that to another aggressive breed, why would you want to have this in a home with kids.


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pb32

Very well said Eld and thank you for having the conviction to say it.

Texas, how will you feel if you place that dog and she hurts a baby? You said you've had dogs your whole life. So you have to understand some dogs can't handle their own prey drive. This dog has established herself as a dangerous dog. What if a toddler starts running and screaming, and this dog grabs it?

I don't understand why you're fooling around with this. Give her back to the shelter and tell them why.

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Elmer J Fudd

arkansas girl, I guess I'm mistaken and am ignorant concerning decades of dog experiences because I haven't been to your dog park. Yes, it's another face palm moment.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am getting a bit confused. Is Tina dog aggressive or is it prey drive? How does she behave around bigger dogs? My Nigel is aggressive towards dogs that are at least almost his size, can ignore small ones. He loves cats and leaves squirrels alone. It can be at times stressful if I walk them and a big dog on the loose runs towards us. But we managed now for almost 11 years without an incident. Knock on wood. He was an owner surrender, wonder sometimes if that was the reason. The shelter said they didn’t know.

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amylou321

Elmer, you mean how my actual experience rehabilitating fighting dogs does not apply because your "experts" don't think it can be done? *smack*

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Elmer J Fudd

Have a good day, amy.

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amylou321

That's what I thought.

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Elmer J Fudd

You misunderstood my comment. Have a nice day.

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pb32

Texas, your very first post above says, "given that she has attacked, and seems triggered to attack small animals, she can't really be rehomed."

Yet now you're trying to rehome her yourself. I don't understand what's changed.

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arkansas girl

I don't understand why she would not be able to be rehomed? I see many dogs up for adoption at our local rescues that have some issues that are addressed such as dog aggression. That doesn't mean that they cannot be rehomed. Now if they are people aggressive, that is a different issue. But why can't Tina be adopted by someone that doesn't have small dogs or cats in their house? Why are y'all making this dog out like she's just going to tear everyone apart? Ridiculous! She has said nothing about her being aggressive toward people!

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Texas_Gem

Nickel- yes this flyer is only a starting off point, I will explain her full history in detail to anyone that is interested.

She has been around crawling babies, toddlers, preschoolers and up.

She has shown NO aggression towards humans, as I said, I wouldn't have an animal in my house that shows aggression towards people.

Seems like some of you may not be aware that showing aggression towards humans and showing aggression towards others dogs are two separate issues.

She's never been around cats so I don't know how she would be but I wouldn't want to risk it which is why I said no small animals.

She plays just fine with our other dog who is the same size. I took her for a walk yesterday. One of my neighbors breeds greyhounds and lets them run loose around the neighborhood (don't even get me started on THAT), well one of the greyhounds came charging towards us and she hid behind me.

That's been her only experience around a dog much larger than she is.

Yes, the top of the flyer has her breed and weight.

Thanks for the tips

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share_oh

When we were recently looking for a new dog to adopt I came across many posts from rescues of dogs who either had to be the only dog or the dog didn't like cats, no small children, etc. It might take a while, but hopefully there will be someone out there that will be a good fit for her.

Texas Gem stated she came from a kill shelter. If she takes her back there, she will be killed, I can almost 100% guarantee that. I used to volunteer for our local humane society for about 10 years. They called themselves a no-kill shelter - because they didn't euthanize for time or space. BUT if an owner brought back for any type of biting reason - they were immediately put down. Once a shelter knows a history they can then be held liable if anything should happen in the future. Plus most shelters are so full, they have to save the more adoptable dogs than the troubled ones.

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patriceny

There are so many really good dogs looking for homes. Kind, soft, gentle dogs are euthanized every day because they have no home.

I know what follows will sound mean, but my personal opinion (yes I know it's worth what you paid for it), is that aggressive dogs like this should be humanely put down. I'm sorry if that sounds upsetting. This is where Chisue and I may agree - we can't be prioritizing the "rights" (if that's the right word) of an aggressive dog over the rights of humans and other animals to live in peace.

I will admit I have had 2 very disturbing unprovoked attacks from pit mixes in the past and so I believe those experiences are now coloring my feelings on this. Both times my dog and I were attacked while walking and my dog was (is) always on a leash - and both times the owners swore it was just an "accident" that the dog got loose.

Aggressive dogs are a massive liability and I don't understand why some people will go to great lengths to keep them alive. Again, I'm honestly not trying to be hurtful with this, but I think we as a society are indeed starting to go a little dog-crazy over issues like this.

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Lucille

I agree with Patriceny to an extent, to me dogs who have attacked humans (not guard dogs, or self defense if someone is beating or torturing the dog, but unprovoked attacks) and caused injury should never be around children, and the owner should be (and in many places is) financially liable for damages if there is a second attack

. The burden should be onerous enough so that most shelters and many people will choose euthanasia for a dog which has physically attacked a person and caused injury. I think penalties if there was no disclosure and a second injury occurred should be extremely substantial.

But many times border collies nip at sheep while rounding them up. Some of them even try to herd their humans.

If one euthanized for nipping, it might be that the entire breed would have to be killed off, border collie genocide. So where is the line between nipping associated with prey drive and aggression? Is there one? I think there is, and I am personally very fond of border collies.

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arkansas girl

Some people just aren't dog lovers. I suppose they have a right to an opinion too....even if I don't agree with it.

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Lucille

But other people may love dogs, but also realize that people, all people but particularly children, are entitled to protection from dogs with histories of injuring humans.

I think for dogs that have injured other dogs and the incident appears to be prey drive, perhaps what should be required if a new home is sought is full written disclosure to potential new owners. I think at this point financial responsibility for a second injury should rest squarely and fully on the new owner who takes the dog with full knowledge of its propensities.

Out of an abundance of caution, I would not rehome a large powerful dog who had injured a tiny dog into a family with tiny children. I would not permit the dog who is the subject of this thread around babies or small children while any rehoming efforts are pending.

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arkansas girl

When I adopted my mini-poodle, I got her from a family that didn't want her any more. They had a doberman that would attack her...guess what, they kept the doberman and got rid of the miniature poodle...go figyah!

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