The photos are so blurry. Can you try re-taking with better focus? It is hard to see the dimension numbers. Thanks. At first glance it looks like you actually have a little larger than average kitchen. I know gigantic kitchens are in vogue now, but you can surely put all your top priorities into this space.

Do you need an eating area and a dining room?

I read your other current thread. If you take down the wall between the kitchen and DR, your kitchen will feel more spacious, but you wouldn't need to add that space to the kitchen. Is there space to fit wall ovens and a cooktop against the solid wall? If you change one window and put the fridge just inside the door, it would be convenient to the family room and breakfast area. Then, if you could covert the bump-out in the breakfast area to counter height windows, you could add your beverage and wine coolers, and add a serving area there.

It would involve some structural changes (mostly windows), but it is the same footprint. Since you would still have two eating areas, I made the island a work space with no seating; the back is a pony wall, or shallow display for platters or cutting boards. The PR wall houses a tall, shallow pantry, for storage, and to buffer the sounds. I'm not sure this is exactly to scale:

Our kitchen is a bit bigger than yours but this is the layout we ended up with and we are very happy.

I tried to draw the measurements a bit clearer. The other image was a snip of a PDF. I don't necessarily need two eating areas, but the one I have would ideally fit an expanding table for 14 people. I'd prefer one larger area over two small.

mama goose - we've spoken to a number of people and no one has had your suggestion yet. This is very interesting, I'm going to play around with measurements a bit more, thank you!

20 hours a go you posted needing a counter for a 13’ island and then you have now posted 14hrs ago the need for a design I am confused.

Yes, A S is correct--in the other thread the kitchen was combined with the DR to the left making a very long room. So, keeping that in mind, here is a plan that might work for both; a fairly compact work area, with space to have a table to expand into the kitchen area.

Use a mobile cart, which can be moved against the left wall in the DR when the table is expanded for hosting large gatherings (red rectangle). It can then be used as extra serving space. (Make sure it won't block a chiller or anything else needed for entertaining.) In the serving area, use a sink that is wide enough to double as a prep sink, so that a secondary prep area can be created to the left of the cooktop.

Extend the wall beside the area adjacent to the PR wall, deep enough to accommodate wall ovens, with landing space to the left. You could add some shallow storage all along that DR wall, or just part of the wall, incorporating whatever usable space is under the stairs. That would all be custom work, but you're saving money on the breakfast area windows, since the serving area is moving to the DR (from my previous plan).

When we purchased the house a couple years ago, we knew the house wasn't perfect, but we liked the location, the privacy/lot size and the proximity to good schools. We looked at hundreds of houses and didn't find anything perfect in our budget. We knew we were buying a bit of a fixer (everything is original from 1989), but I'd rather pay for updates that are to our taste and give me a chance to put my own stamp on it. Plus, and I know this may sound crazy, I could feel the love in the house from the single family that lived there previously and we plan on this being our forever home to raise our kids who are almost 2 & 4. The craftsmanship in the original build is excellent, the wood detail is simply not found in new builds any more. We don’t plan on getting rid of it, I actually appreciate it. I’m not a fan of orange oak – but a lot of paint has made most of our home look like new again. The reason for the remodel plan in the previous thread was to #1) give me site lines to both the living and family room and open up the space a bit, #2) give me better prep space/flow and safety (current cooktop has only 2 inches of space on one side), #3) create a larger eating area so we can all eat together in one location (have extended family/guests that visit often).

As Patricia pointed out, we are actively planning a larger remodel (longer island to fill the space). A LWO pointed out, it is costly. We are starting to second guess our decisions because for the money it should be perfect (or close) and it isn't. I know the Houzz community can be very direct in feedback and I thought it would be good to listen to other perspectives and get out of our own heads a little bit.

LWO - I’m not trying to build the fanciest kitchen in our community, I’m building for our lifestyle. I’m a vegetarian, my husband isn’t – that means I’m making at least two versions of dinner every night. I regularly use our double ovens and have multiple pans on the stove and in my previous home cooking on 30” was a struggle at times, thus the larger cooktop desire. With the exception of a Miele CSO, I was planning on Bosch Benchmark appliances to keep my appliance budget reasonable. All that said, is the larger remodel absolutely necessary – no. I was raised in very modest house and turned out just fine. The article you referenced has many elements of truth to it and I feel like we’ve lost site of reality a bit in the remodel planning. It is hard to hear, but I hear you. I also like your layout plan and think it is totally feasible. (Thank you)

Now we just need to evaluate if reason #1 and #3 are worth all the additional expense and headache of a more major remodel. I appreciate those of you who have provided constructive feedback for both versions to ultimately help us make a decision. We definitely have not made our decision yet (and still open to more feedback either way), but I will give back to the community once we do and share our experience so others can benefit from it. – Sorry for the very long post!

mama goose - thanks for the interesting suggestion. I am not 100% opposed to a range, but I really like the ergonomics of elevated ovens. I do use ovens frequently, so I'd prefer to have them closer in if possible. That is actually one of my main concerns in my larger remodel - the ovens are opposite my island and I fear I'll regret that long term. (For reference, here is the layout my designer completed for me. This version includes not only removing a wall, but an addition as well so the dimensions are larger that what you are using.) This is obviously a much more costly option!

ProSource - Connection is important, you nailed that. I'm struggling a bit to wrap my head around what you are proposing, but maybe it is because our living and family rooms are both sunken rooms. I'd assume to accomplish that we'd have to raise the elevation which would involve new windows, doors, fireplace, etc...do you think that is worth it?

If this helps, here is the elevation change for the family room. The living room has a double step down.

I assumed you wanted 14 seats at the same table--are you happy with them split between the island and breakfast area? Actually there isn't space to make the island that deep--keep it at 48". I am resisting having the working side of the kitchen where you have it drawn--maybe because I first drew it to be near the breakfast area and family room.

If you keep the island, I would put the clean-up sink and DW there, and use it for primary prep, too. You could use a work station sink.

The ovens need landing space, since there are seats on the island. A couple of quick changes:

Think about extending the countertop that’s next to the fridge out a couple inches - that way you can put in a full size fridge and still get the “CD” look.

Can the double ovens be side by side? Just a thought.

Wanting your kitchen to be more open to both the living room and family room is problematic, based on the layout of your home. It's what is creating an overly large (and expensive) kitchen. How do you use your living room? Is it used daily? Special occasions? At the same time as the family room? I suggest thinking about the WHY of this change a little more before getting into the details of the HOW.

Molly - Ergonomically I prefer elevated. If they weren't elevated, I'd probably go with the Thermador 48inch range that includes a stream oven for space maximization.

LWO - Our architect said the same thing. Unfortunately most of the new builds are on super tiny lots (less than 10 feet between homes) or completely out of our price range if they are on a large lot (space is really important to my husband). Just about everything in our area that isn't new build was built in the 80s. We could move out further, but not willing to add significant time to our commute. I've looked at hundreds of houses in our area, we are pretty committed to making this work. We knew ahead of time it would cost us, but we need to be able to justify the investment and make smart choices and adapt ( hardest part ).

Kristin - Today we spend most of our time in the family room (it's really cozy). The formal living is a huge kid play room and will probably be that way for another 4+ years. After it will likely be a reading/music room. I know I'll never have true open concept and am okay with that. We have two outdoor patios and spend the most time in the one of the family room because it gets the most light and is biggest.

Mama goose - I don't need seating for 14 daily, but 8 adults at the table and island seating for kids is fine for weekend gatherings. For holidays, being able to extend the table or add an additional table in a seating area would be ideal.

Think about moving the kitchen to the breakfast room, and make the current kitchen your dining area. That places it right at the heart of the action, and closer to the entry for easier grocery slogging. If you’re going to stay in this home, and spend a bunch of money on it, you have to create a master plan this to get you closer to your goal. A big kitchen far away from the family area doesn’t do that.

That doesn’t solve not using the existing dining, but it gets to the heart of the big adjacency and flow issue. Who knows, you might take over the living area and dining area as a downstairs accessible Master if you plan to stay there that long. Or guest suite in the mean tune.

Cook's Kitchen - we played with that a little bit, but it's not big enough to accommodate an island or peninsula. We'd have to relocate the bathroom to a less than ideal location to make the space big enough.

Oops, looks like my revised drawings didn't upload with my last post, trying again. Thoughts? Is it ugly to be looking at the ovens from the more formal dining?

FYI I was a vegetarian for 35 yrs. I cooked all the meals and honestly just added meat to my meal it was not an issue of making 2 different meals so no need for a huge inefficient space .The bonus was all the rest of the family got lots of veggies and fibre. I think live-wires idea is a good start with some help from a good KD .

See, now you’re just making it clear that what you say you want isn’t what you really want. You want the giant expensive kitchen and all the superfluous disconnected duplicative function areas. Regardless if it’s a good layout or adds anything to the family togetherness or not. If that’s what you want, then spend the 150K+ and make it happen. With no real payback at all, other than you get to stay in that location, and you get your gigantor roller rink kitchen.

Do you want what you SAY you want? Or what you keep drawing up? Because what you keep drawing does nothing to move you to your stated goal. So maybe you want the big personal battleship domain that’s all yours, without the connection to the family area?

Extremely rough sketch attached. Going back to my suggestion from your original post to place a walk-in pantry where the dining room is with a beverage center/butler pantry facing the walkway to the living room. This can be where your coffee, wine and beverage refrigerators are located. Place the cooktop, double ovens and refrigerator on the long wall with the sink in the island. This will serve to shrink the kitchen to a better proportion while keeping it closer to the family room. Place the dining table in the space adjacent to the family room.

LWO - The cabinet linear square feet is almost the same as we have now, just elongated. I don't understand how that jumps us from 65k ( your earlier proposal) to 150k, especially when appliances would move in both instances but are the same appliances?

We do like your proposal and are still playing around with it, but in that version we don't gain all the light from the windows in the dining room and the wall blocks site lines. Your earlier suggestion keeps our kitchen in the same location, so I'm having a hard time understanding why you are now against me keeping it in the same spot? Is it the big island?

Mama goose - the last idea builds off your earlier version but flips sink and cooktop. I'm not clean enough to keep my main sink and DW in the island.

Patricia - One thing I've learned from reading numerous articles is that cooking style, eating habits and level of cleanliness will not change with a remodel. Although there are some meals that I can just add meat to, many I can't. My husband and I eat very differently, my kids are in between us. I don't think I'll be able to change my husband's eating habits, believe me, I've tried.

2 minutes on a phone with a finger, before the 2nd cup of coffee. So very rough.

Placing the kitchen in the breakfast area gives you an immediate connection with the family room and the new dining spot. No, the kitchen isn’t huge. But that big peninsula will be a workhorse. As will be the mobile cart for a second prep zone when you have multiple workers. Dining seating is right there, so a couple of seats perching at the peninsula are all you need.

I’d relocate the powder room under the stairs and use that for a walk in pantry. The island could possibly be fixed, with the sink in the right spot, and dish storage could go there, and serve as a baking station for the oven. .

Thank you Kristin and Cooks Kitchen!

I think I'm on a little advice overload. I plan to share your ideas and a few earlier suggestions with our designer to have her help us sort through what would work best for our family. I really appreciate everyone who has helped us critically question our previous thinking.