Toto toilets in new apartment suck (or don't suck)--need replacements
katzander
4 years ago
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American Standard vs. Toto Toilets
Comments (44)jsaklas: "I have the AS Champion and it has NEVER clogged, my Kohlers have always clogged. I never owned a TOTO, but the TOTO Drake has a 20% smaller trapway (2 and 1/8" while the AS has a 2 and 3/8" which is an area 19+% smaller) and a 3" flush valve while the AS has a 4" flush valve, so I think it would be impossible for the TOTO to flush as well as the AS." Your personal experience with a real-world product is a valid testimonial; your rationalization for why is not based on good science. The diameter of the "solids" to be flushed is pretty much limited by human physiognomy. Every -- pardon me for using the proper word -- turd has a diameter that is limited by the orifice through which it passes. You will not find many -- if any -- turds that exceed 2-1/8" in diameter. The length of a turd, however, is less constrained than is its diameter. After passing through the trapway, the turd must make its way into a sewage line. And that is where many toilets made in China (whisper: "American Standard") fall short. You can have a FOUR inch trapway, but if the trapway ends in a 90 degree turn with a tight radius, you will get clogs from time to time. One of the limitations of the MaP test, revered by many, and 99 percent based on an engineering model developed by Toto, is that the MaP test ends at the exit from the trapway. But if a long turd has to make a sharp 90 degree turn from the exit from the trapway, the toilet will clog, no matter how capacious the trapway diameter is....See MoreToto G-Max or E-Max toilet flushing system?
Comments (25)@sunfeather I've talked to plumbers on other forums & they said that the flush is about the same. Both have around a 1000 MAP score (which is very high & good). One of the main differences now between the Drake & Entrada is that the Drake now has a canister/tower flush mechanism instead of a flapper but the Entrada still uses a flapper. But I've had people tell me they still perform about the same. E-Max will use less water (so might need someone to hold the lever longer or do a second flush if there is something particularly stubborn in the toilet) but the benefit is that it will use less water & meet eco standards in some places. E-Max will probably save $ on water in the long run as well as up front on the costs since E-Max is cheaper. I would give it a try, but I can't say definitively until I use an E-Max toilet. If I ever finish the reno & get the E-Max installed, I'll give an update on how it performs compared to the G-Max ....See MoreJust installed Toto Aquia dual flush - great toilet
Comments (27)Well, I called down to the plumbing office... and sure enough, I'm wrong! I was thinking of the original AS Cadet, thus everything I said about it is about the original AS Cadet, not the "3" version, which is apparently a totally different animal. Siphon-jet, gravity-based, no expensive/failure-prone/noisy pressure-assist tank. They're still not real hot on American Standard 'though, but that comes from many in-field failures and lack of good quality control on others like the AS Champion toilet and some of their other plumbing fixtures, such as tubs & sinks. From what I'm told, AS has claimed several times that a toilet model was "Better than a Toto Drake", like their Champion toilet, but what they've seen in the field, especially with the leaking tanks, proves otherwise. I do find dchall's comments interesting and plan on doing a little excursion to the local home improvement store to take a look at this Cadet 3 toilet. AS switching to a gravity-based system with standard parts is a huge step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, BUT, my AS Compact Elongated & AS Rennaisance toilets are gravity-fed and use standard parts and don't work worth a damn, BUT both of my AS toilets are washdowns and not siphon-jets, so I'm willing to give them a chance... BUT not in my bathroom -- both of my AS toilets will be replaced with Toto toilets. I'd rather pay more and get the real thing rather than skimp and get a knock-off of unknown quality. The Cadet 3 has been on the market for less than a year and their Champion toilets became rather problematic after the first 6 or so months. The one thing I'd be really curious about is the distance the AS Cadet 3 can move the waste down the waste pipe. I donated a few Toto Drake toilets to my church after they were calling Roto-Rooter every 3-4 months to unclog the lines. Previous toilets were 6 gallon models. Since the Drakes were installed in Feb, no clogs/backups have occured. Commercial-grade products and standards/codes *ARE* of higher quality/standards than residential. Electrical codes, structural engineering design, ventilation codes, and plumbing codes are all more strict and demanding for commercial applications than residential. In the case of toilets, this would be performance, durability, and weight-handling capacity. There's a reason that both AS & Toto list far fewer toilets for commercial applications than residential. This isn't dissimilar from being able to use 15-amp receptacles & Romex wire in houses whereas you must use 20-amp receptacles and hard-pipe conduit in commercial buildings. As far as the disclaimers go, they came about from homeowners buying $50-75 toilets @ Lowe's/HD and expecting the plumber to install them, then calling & complaining that the toilet was installed wrong b/c it didn't work like their old 6-gallon toilets did. This requiring a call-back, which ate more time & money, and of course, customers who were buying $50 toilets are going to complain even louder when you come out a 2nd time and have to charge them for the 2nd trip when there's nothing wrong with the install. Their $50 toilets are junk and there's nothing the plumber can do to make it work better. The disclaimer simply states, "I have been informed that not all low-flow toilets perform equally and wish to install something other than what ________ Plumbing has advised me of and that ________ Plumbing does not guarantee the performance of this toilet." Ever since coming up with that, the # of false callbacks have dropped to almost zero. As far as wanting to sell toilets (as I have been accused in the aforementioned link), my degree's in EE and do electronics design/engineering and currently going back to school to study medicine, my father's is in law, the plumbing business is simply an investment, not an occupation. My specific plumbing knowledge was taught to me by one of the plumbers and consists of "hot on left, cold on right, gas goes up, s**t goes down", said like a true plumber. The plumbing business really don't make THAT much on parts, however labor is billed at actual cost (~$100/hr) rather than a more appealing rate other plumbers charge ($65-75/hr) and 50% markup on parts. So, they sell a Drake for ~$220, Carusoe goes for ~$120. I doubt you'll be able to find them for much less than that. The high labor rate also tends to weed out the less-desirable clientelle who are most concerned about price and not quality or performance. They've worked on numerous repairs and renovations for the local 5-star resorts (I won't say which, but one of the resorts selected Toto Drake toilets and Speakman dual-head showerheads; most road-warriors probably know which chain this is), numerous 4-5 star restaurants, and plenty of high-end houses. At this level, performance is your reputation, NOT price. As a last parting shot :), the AS toilets are made in Central & South America, whereas most of the Toto toilets sold in the US are made in the US. Like I've said, I've had Totos in my other residence for 5 years now, used a plunger 0 times, no leaks/quality control issues. For my money and posterior, there shall be a Toto beneath it. I'll gladly pay more for a product I know will work the first time, every time....See MoreThe official...yes My Samsung Sucked post
Comments (31)I spent over a thousand dollars on an HE TL and it was so awful I sold it for $100 less than two years later.. A couple of months later a friend called to tell me the lady who bought it and her daughter were taking their clothes to a neighbor's house to wash because the washer was not cleaning their clothes and they smelled and they didn't want to use it anymore because it was gross. Mind you when I sold it to them it did not smell and looked brand new so this was yet another new development. After research it is suspected the hot water intake valve had stopped functioning. I felt so bad that I offered to give her her money back. The machine was top of the line had a huge "looking" capacity but you couldn't use it to full capacity. Sometimes when I took clothes out they were not even wet all over. I did not overload the machine. It ruined many items of clothing and it destroyed sheets as if it hated them. It would tightly wrap clothes in a knot and then get out of balance. What a horrible machine. It caused me much financial setback and also many days of frustration dealing with this POJ. The matching dryer was loud and could be heard all over the house as if it had no insulation it also was top of the line companion to the washer and had the steam which was sort of a joke. I finally ended up buying a front load GE middle of the line that I had used in a condo while on vacation and loved it. It was so quiet and did such a good job. I rewashed everything in my suitcase that I had brought with me. My clothes seemed gross from using the top load machine, I never felt that anything was clean and maybe even dirtier since going through the TL wash. Not to mention they are loud sounding like an airplane engine spooling up and the water is coming in from the top of the machine of course and is a long way to the bottom so it sounded like water falling onto flat rocks in a cave when it was going through the machine. I still have bad memories of this awful machine and would not wish one on my worst enemy. It was the machine you first mentioned when considering a TL. Don't do it!!! In addition, don't fall for the extra large capacity. The larger the drum the more easily it will go out of balance. Think of spinning a small bowl on your finger as opposed to a great big one. I have the 3.5 capacity and only on occasion do I miss a larger capacity. The front loaders do take more time to do laundry, a fact of life with these new HE machines. The less water the longer it will take to do the job is the reason they are set up that way. I am really happy with this set and got it on sale at Home Depot, the washer and dryer for about $1100 including delivery and the extra stuff like hoses etc. WASHER GFWN1100L2WW GE DRYER DGFDN110ELOWW GE If you like this set, be aware that you will have to empty the detergent drawer of water after using for the day so it will empty a small bit of water left in the tray. Very easy but some people might not know this. It comes out easily and just dump it in sink. You probably don't have to do it but I do. There may be different model numbers now since my set is about two years old....See More
nycbluedevil_gw
4 years agowdccruise
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agokatzander
4 years agoM
4 years agokudzu9
4 years agoL thomas
4 years agoM
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4 years agoerika555
4 years ago
lucky998877
4 years agokatzander
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4 years agolast modified: 4 years ago
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