I have a Jura Capresso model that is not made now. In fact, we had one and bought another so DH has one at his office now. I think we bought the first one 7 or 8 years ago (?) and he second one about 3 years ago. The older one was sent in once for service after we got the second one for a super cleaning and make wonderful. Other than cleaning and replacing the filter regularly (and it tells you what to do and when), that's it. Just add water and beans. We use it daily and it gets a workout anytime we have people over -- the family and friends toy. ;-) If you get one, you can get the water filters on Amazon in a buy 3 get 4 special from time to time and I bought the cleaning tablets in a small jar there for much cheaper than the bubble card packaging I had been buying. There is a milk container available, but I just pour half a mug of milk, steam it and then add coffee. DH drinks espresso, so we don't really need it. There are two settings on the frother -- one you control when it shuts off and one that is measured and you can change the setting. We bought both of our refurbished from Whole Latte Love and Aabree (one each -- they are now under common ownership, I understand). We had a hard time with the initial purchase price, but they have paid for themselves over and over -- not that I would buy coffee out daily and sometimes several times daily, but if I did..... We bought the second one also refurbished because I especially liked the height of the adjustable brew head that allows me to steam my milk in a tall mug. The newer models at the time either didn't adjust at all or not as much. I could have justified spending more then, but what I wanted wasn't new any more. I've heard good things about Saeco and Gaggia too. We looked at them when we had the semiautomatic before these.

"I know it works because you can see the milk pipework (the intake pipes are clear glass) and watch the behavior of both cleansers in action." oh wow! I saw it so it must be true. This is almost as good as : "I read it on the internet" Do you have long term data and use to support your conclusions? What if your just a bit off and someone shortens the life or even ruins their $3000 coffee maker or their health? It's got nothing to do with being servile to the man. Descaling agents for water systems are almost always acetic acid tablets. So changing one brand for another manufactured and labled for the same PURPOSE poses little risk. Using oxyclean for a purpose not stated by them is a bit more reckless. It may very well be the same thing, but what if it's not? Until you can show me a scientific analysis or a LONG TERM study it's just plain irresponsible to suggsest a substitute chemical because you've seen it work once. Crack was the latest and greatest thing for a while in the rec. stimulant trade for a while. Better, faster, cheaper, more widely distributed. Then everyone found out it was way more addictive, and way more lethal from certain tweeks made to batches on the chemical level. To the new adoptor that liked to be ahead of everybody else and save a few dollars it looked like a sure thing too.

>>>"We are not big coffee drinkers - will have 3 cups all together,..."<<< You want to match coffeemaker capacity to the amount you drink? Should be simple, right? Nah. No such luck. Not to confuse you too much, but how much coffee are your "three cups altogether?" A "measuring cup" is 8 oz., so "three cups" could be 24 oz. of coffee. But maybe you are using the kind of "coffee cups" that come in dinnerware sets with saucers? Europeans assume those to be 4 oz. capacity "coffee cups" where American designed brands often assume 5 oz. Or, maybe, like me and many others here, you call a mug a "coffee cup?" My coffee mugs hold over 10 oz. of coffee. For me, my "three cups altogether" would be 30 oz. of coffee. Three measuring cups worth of coffee would be 24 oz. Three "cup and saucer" cups would be 15 oz. or 12 oz. depending on the size of those coffee cups. We are not done with the curve balls yet. When manufacturers state the "cup" capacity of their coffee makers, they usually are referring to "cup and saucer" cups, so you need to know whether they are talking about the European "4 oz. standard" or the North American "5 oz. standard." Just to add to the potential confusion for shoppers, the custom in adverts is to list the capacity for the amount of water (input side) rather than the amount of coffee produced in the pot (output side). The "ouput" side will be less because somewhere around 15% of the input water gets absorbed into the coffee grounds and does not make it into the pot. So, let's try to put this together by looking at a coffeemaker such as the Technivorm or Bonavita that were recommended by others. FWIW, I've got a Technivorm. (I like it a lot, so do not take what I'm saying as bashing the brand.) My KBG 741 model is one of the "10 cup" capacity models. (There are larger and small capacity models, too.) That 10-cup capacity assumes 4 oz. cups and the "fine print" for the TV tells you that it actually is a 40 oz. water reservoir. When I make a full pot, the amount of coffee liquid that actually reaches the pot is roughly 34 to 35 oz. With my morning "coffee cup" being a mug, "three cups altogether" is most of a full pot. Now, if my three cups of morning coffee were only "cup and saucer" cups, I would be making only half a pot of coffee instead of a full pot. If I were mostly drinking "cup and saucer" cups and wanted a lesser capacity Technivorm model, I might want to choose the Technivorm KBTS (sometimes listed as the KBTS741) . Although listed as having an "8 cup" capacity, that's actually 32 oz. in the water reservoir and about 27 to 28 oz. for a full pot of coffee. (That's three and a half "measuring cups"). If you want three "cup and saucer" cups, you make half a pot. For that, you move a manual slider switch on the side of the filter holder. The half pot setting slows down the speed with which water drips through the lesser quantity of coffee into the pot. The idea, apparently, is that the water flow for a half pot might flow through too quickly through the smaller amount of coffee to get the fullest flavor when using the flow rates for a full pot. On the half-pot setting, the water spends a little more time in contact with the lesser amount of grounds --- basically takes about the same 5 minutes that a full pot would take. For a competing model at less than half the cost, you could look at the Bonavita BV1500TZ which is listed as a "5 Cup Coffee Maker with Stainless Steel Carafe." (This is actually manufactured for the Melitta Corporation but is branded as "Bonavita" in North America because several decades ago Melitta sold Hamilton Beach the right to use the Melitta brand name in North America.) Anyway, the Bonavita's "5 cups" are 5 oz. "cup and saucer" cups, so the water reservoir capacity is 25 oz. The coffee pot yield apparently is around 20 to 22 oz. The BV1500 seems to sell for around $120. Seattlecoffeegear.com has a video review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNIXzy6plW8 Online reviews seem a little mixed. Mostly positive but some reviewers apparently got early production units that did not get the water as hot as quickly as intended. List price on Technivorm KBTS is $299 which is the same as some of the 10-cup models. Sometimes there will be discounts for holiday weekend sales. Open-box units are sometimes available for about 1/3 to 1/2 off. (Want to guess how I got my TV?) I'll suggest checking out SeattleCoffeGear.Com as a resource. A good return policy, too, if you buy from them. They will provide helpful info over the phone or by e-mails, as well. >>>" looks like Technivorm is one of the favorites on this forum. One question - is it difficult to clean? "<<< Cleaning: Technivorms are pretty easy to clean. If you get one of the insulated steel carafe, you probably want to have a bottle brush to swish through the interiors as the top opening is a little narrow. (No such need if you opt for one of the glass carafe models, instead.) The company recommends against cleaning in dishwashers. As best I can tell, their concern about dishwashers is the detergent which, over time, eventually degrades the plastic parts like the carafe lids, the filter holder and the handle on the carafe. I suppose you can use a DW's rinse or quick cycle without detergent. (I've done the rinse cycle with mine for years and not seen had any adverse effects yet.) The company recommends that, every three to four months, you run a brew cycle with plain water to which you've added a dose of a product like Dezcal or a spoonful of critric acid, and follow that with a couple more cycles with plain water. Seem to be the same recommendations for the Bonavitas. >>>"Also, does it require a special grind? Similar to French press? . . . What grinder do u like ? <<< Neither the TV nor the BV models seem to require any special or unique grinds. Generally, you want a grind about halfway between the really coarse grind for French press and the standard fine grind often prescribed for drip coffee makers. For me, it helps to think in terms of very coarse corn meal (French press), medium grind cornmeal (BV and TV), and finely ground cornmeal (supermarket standard for "drip coffee makers.) Tell a speciality coffee roaster/store what coffeemaker you have (just about every "in the business" has heard of BV and Technivorms) and they can probably get you a good recommendation. Once you know what it looks like, you can dial that in on your area's supermarket grinders. I have a Krups burr grinder that I bought at Costco (currently about $27 or $30, I think). What works for me is a setting of about 1/3 back from fully coarse (fully coarse being the recommendation for French press coffees). I got it as a good place to start with an upgrade from a blade-grinder and never moved on. However, If I were contemplating making espresso, I'd look further upmarket. Again, seattlecoffeegear.com can give you a pretty good idea of what's available.

built in coffee machines (or really anything with a grinder) requires a reasonable amount of maintenance. Ground coffee is oily and powdery - it gets everywhere and sticks. I have a built in - i would recommend doing the suggested procedures, as it is the easiest way to keep it running. It can't be more than 30 minutes a week there is a reason why copiers breakdown in offices so often - it is the toner getting on all the mechanics