I remember agonizing over this very question, Beagles. It's the first of many, many such questions you'll have as a parent where there is no right or wrong answer. Do your research. Trust your instincts. Everything already written is great collective experience, IMO. (We did. For various reasons stated above.)

Beagles - both of my sons were circumcised in the 1980's as were both of my brothers and as far as I know - all of the sons of my friends. I just asked DH what the current medical opinion is on the topic and what he personally would recommend. I also asked what he would have said to our DS and DDIL who just had their first baby (a girl) if they had asked him the same question. He recently retired after 45 years of practicing medicine (Hematology/Oncology) in Philly and his comment was - it's the decision of the parents but should be knowledge based, not the 'ick' factor. But if pressured to answer he would tell them to circumcise and then went on to list all the factors in favor of it - including the history of sexual practice in the US in the last 50 years, the use of condoms, birth control pills, age of first intercourse, frequency and number of partners, cervical cancer rates, penile cancer, Gardasil, hygiene etc. he even went on to discuss geographic and international customs. He is a teacher at heart.......

It's always harder to make a decision when you have such a short time constraint - I hope all of our comments help.

So far I haven't run into any men who were upset that their parents had it done, but if you are a biologist like me and not prone to body issues, it may not make a difference to you one way or the other. I would do it due to its religious and cultural association, which are all positive. But if that's not you, then I can understand why it might be a tough decision. Like most have said, I would take the advice of the men in my family. They will be the role models, like it or not.

The one bit of negative information I got was from a friend who had a brother who married a Muslim and converted to Islam and got circumcised as an adult. He said his brother was really in love because he found it quite painful.

On the flip side, I don't know of anyone who has had it done to their son who has reported any big problems. None of the babies I know who were circumcised showed signs of being particularly traumatized over a long period of time. If you're only just figuring out what the sensory world is all about and you have few body memories of experiences, you don't have any dread or afterthoughts, so if it all heals well, the pain is short-lived for a baby. The longer you wait, the more of a big deal it will be for the baby, IMHO. But I understand why such a tough call, making a decision for someone. But it won't be the first or the last, that's parenting I guess.

Ollie, you said what I wanted to say but was too chicken. :) While I've never seen an uncircumcised man IRL, I do remember seeing a picture many years ago & as a woman, I think I prefer circumcised.

I was somewhat surprised at that thinking but apparently research supports Ollie’s supposition.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6523040/

Thank you so much to everyone for the thoughtful replies. I have been reading them to my husband as well.

My husband actually said if it were solely up to him, he would not do it because he's concerned about the discomfort the baby will feel. But it seems like that hasn't been a huge problem for most people here.

And, we have the same concerns about the cultural norms many people mentioned above and not wanting him to be different in this regard. It is standard practice here where we live. And I keep thinking of the Sex and the City episode where the guy ended up getting circumcised as an adult after Charlotte was grossed out -- I know it is stupid to be influenced by a TV show but at the same time, cultural norms are important with something like this.

But at the same time, it also seems like more and more babies aren't being circumcised so maybe we should NOT be doing it and contributing to the changing norms...

We have the appointment set up for Tuesday, as of right now... But we can still cancel.

Yes, I have heard women ewww the uncircumcised “P” but never ever an ewww for circumcised. Not very nice but true. Women can be cruel.

We did not circumcise and never considered it. Father a urologist (circumcised) and he did NOT do it to my brothers, either, for many reasons he lectured us about over the years. So, 3rd generation, and my siblings and self have not circumcised any of our many sons. Though unusual around my area, more and more folks are NOT doing it. The boys' friends know about it, and couldn't care less, nor have my boys ever been teased. They know several boys in their groups of friends who are not circumcised. In fact, one son has 2 toes fused on each foot, and gets more attention for his interesting feet than for not being circumcised.

Here was my thinking: from family of doctors and health care professionals who have seen every thing go wrong that can go wrong, no one in our family feels the risks are worth it. Additionally, future STDs will be subject to modern medicine a couple decades from now. I'm betting on science, not my boys' promiscuity.

Future sex partners: I'm not changing what God gave my boys as natural, for some future sex partners and what they may think in that future time. She/they can appreciate the boys for what they are, and grow her mind, especially in this modern accepting/open culture, or she can find herself with some other man!

Procedure itself: It can be brutal. Watch one online, if such videos exist. Back in my father's early practice days, they strap the baby to board, tying down hands and feet, and do or don't give anesthetic beforehand. I am quite sure that nowadays it is more reasonable, however, I would certainly ask the questions you need to, in order to get a deep understanding. I would never have permitted anyone to take my newborn from me, in a hospital setting, without me there every second (unless it was a life or death emergency), but maybe that's just me. Not for injections, not for diaper changing, nothing.

Anecdotal: many conversations with me before my BFF circumcised her son. Despite her taking every precaution (top hospital, respected doctor, conversations beforehand), the procedure was botched. 2 more procedures to fix those issues, and many sleepless nights with a stressed out mom waking up to bloody diapers. Boy oh boy did she regret that and wishes she'd never done it. However, I do realize that one person's anecdotal experience does not necessarily make sense for someone else, nor is it the norm.

She/they can appreciate the boys for what they are, and grow her mind, especially in this modern accepting/open culture, or she can find herself with some other man!

Yes!

I am pretty sure no boy of mine would find such a woman attractive anyway.

My son played baseball since he was in t-ball till he played for his high school team. He played flag football in middle school. He wasn’t teased. That doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to do it. JMHO

Also, I can't quit comprehend the argument that says, have your infant child undergo this medical procedure for the sake of how attractive it will make him to future partners. Imagine if the child were a girl and we said that?

Differences of opinion with respect to STD risk, I understand. The cosmetic, peer pressure argumnet baffles me.

First of all, congratulations!!

second..yes we did circumcised our son-and it was a bris, which is that covenant per se, and it's a traditional thing to do, so was not a question whether to do it or not, and no pediatrician was involved either. You gather friends and family. A very trained guy comes, performs it in the matter of seconds, give the baby a drop of red wine to sniff..:0 Baby falls fast asleep, mother is pale and shivering..))

yes,I closed my eyes..and was very anxious and all. Of course. Immunizations were also not a favorite thing of mine to see..whatever is painful for the baby is painful to you, and that's how it generally goes.

the recovery though was fine and fast..I did get worried about something(can't remember what) so the mohel( the person who performs the procedure) came to our place and checked and ensured me everything was fine-and it was. Yes, took approximately the same time as littlebug describes.

Best thing they remember nothing too, unlike older boys/men: my ex decided to do the procedure when he was twenty, and it was much more of an ordeal including about couple months of painful recovery, and of course one should abstain from, while at that, and all.

As for future partners' reactions..frankly would be the least of my concerns, even though I do have my aesthetical preferences..:) and they're pretty standard judging by this thread. But still. Had opportunities to compare. Didn't play a major role.

As for other kids and their reactions ..well since we lived in the country where the majority of folks are circumcised, I can't weight on that, in all honesty. Wasn't part of my consideration. If was the other way around..knowing myself I'd comply with my tradition, unless would find myself in a situation I hardly know about it (as happenned a lot in Soviet Union. well they really didn't like any religion in there, except their newly-invented-own, so folks mostly didn't stick their necks out)

Whatever decision you take..I wish for you to be pleased with it and how it goes

'Attractive to girls' MIGHT not be how it looks. Attractive for hygienic reasons more likely. I would be interested to hear about UTI's in their partners at they get older since STDs are a thing.

Well no kids so I can’t answer from that perspective but I have a spouse who didn’t have the procedure - not sure why as I never asked. I just always thought It seemed like an unnatural thing to do and assumed his parents felt the same. He has suffered no ill effects to my knowledge. I could not have cared less when I “discovered“ it nor could he and there have been no STDs or UTIs. I think there are other more important factors to consider if one wants to avoid STDs.

I haven’t read up on this but it seems like kind of an archaic medical procedure that appeared to be a good idea but was never based on any quality medical evidence. I could certainly be wrong

DH would be mortified to know I have discussed his “swimsuit area” on an internet forum.

Among my generation (old) all the boys were circumcised, regardless of religion.

I was once married to an Englishman who was uncircumcised. The issue wasn't appearance, but hygiene. Obviously that varies from person to person, but oh dear, it could be not good.

If I had it to do over, I would not have had my son circumcised. In most of the world, most men are not circumcised. Of course, Muslim and Jewish men always are due to religious beliefs, but other than that, most men in the world are not. In the U.S. now, less than half of males are circumcised at birth according to the CDC. The highest percentages are in the midwest area of our country and the lowest in the west. Interesting.

We considered pros and cons very carefully as you are doing and, mostly for hygienic reasons, did circumcise. I have no doubt that he was left with no permanent emotional damage (I actually did worry about this though it seems a little silly now) and recovery was quick and uneventful. As for "botched" procedures, I've never known anyone who experienced this and suspect it is extremely rare.

I may be shadow banned from this thread because I wrote a big comment that only I can see. Trying again :)

In my province the pediatric urologists consider themselves forward-thinking and they have pretty much banned circumcision so it was an easy choice for us. Not even offered. The Canadian Pediatric Society recommends against it. The American Academy of Pediatrics is agnostic.

We would have declined if offered because the very slight risk of catastrophic harm outweighs the aesthetic and minor health benefits in my mind...if something went wrong I’d feel so terrible. Also I believe newborns have a right to pain relief (lidocaine injection into p**** is the standard of care now) but then you're giving meds to a newborn perhaps unnecessarily.

BUT circumcised kids can be at less risk for STIs and UTIs. So it’s a tough decision!

My baby had a painful procedure as a newborn (lumbar puncture for suspected meningitis). They sent us out of the room and it was still 100% heartrending to hear his screams from down the hall. 0/10 do not recommend.

Then he had a tongue tie clipped and it was less crying than a diaper change so...again, who knows!

As for the boys’s peers, ,circumcision is falling out of favour the younger the generation so I would expect 1/2 of boys or fewer to be circumcised in coming years. It sits at about 57% nationally in USA right now (just below 1/3 in Canada).

https://healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/prenatal/decisions-to-make/Pages/Where-We-Stand-Circumcision.aspx

Anecdotal "no problems" or anecdotal "big problem" are not the statistics. I don't know what they are, but I would research them and find out. But only you know if any of the pros or cons relate to you and your family. It's not necessary so that's probably enough for most non-religious people to forgo the procedure.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/585

Dated 2012.

This data only includes those who had the procedure before hospital discharge @ birth.

This is consistent with my midwestern hospital ED observations.

We have two sons and both are circumcised because their dad is. It was done in the hospital shortly after they were born before we brought them home.

@ sushipup, professional medical organizations update recommendations when there is science and evidence to support a needed change in policy. In 2012, they updated their recommendations from 1999; note that was 13 years.

Beagles I’m including the article below because I know you’re a researcher, it’s a lively discussion in the comments and I think comments elucidate both sides of the argument clearly (better than the article itself does). The article is British and therefore anti-circ but not vociferously so, pretty even handed in my opinion.

https://trendsinmenshealth.com/whither-circumcision/

Male circumcision is recommended as HIV prevention in very high HIV areas But this is a fairly negligible concern in the United States.

Thank you so much for the helpful comments and the research articles. The comments are indeed very helpful on that article robo.

My husband and I are going to talk about it again tonight, look at some of the statistics, and try to find a video of the specific technique his doctor would be doing (the Plastibell) and then decide.

Hygiene and appearance issues baffle me. We are suggesting that males are less capable of keeping themselves as clean as females. That's just plain silly. Anyone who has changed babies of both sexes knows females have many more flaps and folds than males, yet we are not suggesting females be altered for convenience and hygiene. Or appearance.

I have never seen or heard of any hygiene issues with my uncircumcised husband, our three sons or three grandsons. They all have access to soap and water. I can't imagine that an uncircumcised man who has hygiene issues there is very clean about the rest of himself and somehow misses his p****. Seriously?

A man in his twenties who decides, for whatever reason, to be circumcised does so fully informed. An infant does not. Of course we make many decisions for our children, but to make a decision to alter a child because because a woman may not like it is cruel. Besides, if circumcision is a cultural thing subject to the whims of society, in twenty years circumcised men may be the minority.

There are so many factors and unknowns to this matter. And it's so unfair that new parents, who are exhausted, overwhelmed, ecstatic, anxious and holding onto this precious little life now, have to hurry up and decide on this decision. It's overwhelming. Again, Beagles, regardless of what you and your husband decide, take comfort in knowing you've made a thoughtful decision.

As an added note, I've never read such respectful discourse in the "comments" section about a controversial topic as the article that Robo linked. That was refreshing to read.

I agree with Feathers. Nothing wrong with considering the pros and cons but whatever you decide, I think it will be OK. Different people have different life experiences and perspectives. To me, this one doesn't have a clear right or wrong because I am very used to people who have the procedure, they are part of my friend and family network, but if there is something about it that is clearly an issue for you, go with your conscience. I don't think there is a way you can go wrong with a much loved child. It's not neglect either way. You are doing your due diligence.

Circumcision reduces FEMALE-to MALE transmission of HIV

https://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/fact_sheet/en/

It is not recommended by European pediatric associations. Court case 2012 in Germany ruled against circumcision for religious reasons, basically because children have the right to have their bodies kept intact.

https://qz.com/885018/why-is-circumcision-so-popular-in-the-us/

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/why-are-australians-no-longer-getting-circumcised/10338572

Personally, I find it interesting how cultural/religious beliefs have affected medical practice. If one looks at the details of the supposed health benefits of circumcision, they are negligible at best in the US (e.g. incidence of UTIs in male infants, penile cancer vs potential complications, such as bleeding, infection, or worse).

I have no son's so have never had to make this decision. However, I did read somewhere in a medical publication several years ago that some physical sensation can be lost by circumcision. I have never seen this repeated anywhere but it left me to wonder. We as a country and I as a woman find the thought of cutting a female abhorrent, why is it ok to cut a male. Not making any judgement as I really don't have a "right" answer. I am sure that you will make the right decision for your child.

Ah. Parental decisions. They start you off with a doozy, don’t they? My 5 1/2 yr. old grandson isn’t circumcised. My son-in-law’s an MD so he’s aware of all the pros and cons and they opted not to do it. His opinion was it’s something that people get very worked up about that makes little to no difference either way.

We could not when my son (now 14) was born because he was a preemie. He ended up having the surgery when he was 2 years old and it wasn't that bad. A couple of days of healing.

I am very upset that I was circumcised as an infant without my consent. I think it is pretty much illegal in Europe to mutilate a baby in such a way. However, in Africa, it is common to circumcise female babies in some societies.

A friend of mine got a circumcision as an adult, and he said it was the worst decision of his entire life - one that was made mainly by his wife. He said he would give his house if he could have his foreskin back.

I think it is a barbaric and inhumane thing to do to an innocent baby.

Lars, I agree that male circumcision is unnecessary, but please do not call the cutting of a girl, known as female genital mutilation, "circumcision", that it not the correct terminology and minimizes the lifelong consequences for women who were forced to undergo the procedure as girls nearing puberty.

Since I don't have any boys, just one daughter, I was going to keep quiet, but since others have chimed in, I will too. First, beagles, if you are still wavering, remember hesitation can often be an overlooked sign of reluctance. Second, I worked as a unit secretary in a teaching hospital during undergraduate, and often "floated" up to labor and delivery (as it was then called) to cover their desk. Just looking at the contraption they strap newborns into is traumatizing enough, but hearing the blood curling screams during the procedures (one after the other.....) was too much, I decided, at the ripe old age of 19, that no son of mine was going to undergo an unnecessary procedure.

I'm surprised that a couple who chose to give birth to their child in their welcoming and loving home would be considering a circumcision. Especially when there seems to be no medical reason to support the procedure.

I opted out of motherhood myself, but if I were facing this decision in today's world, circumcision would not happen. I expect that it's being done less often in this country, right?

I'm sure that whatever decision is made, it will be the best one for the little man.

Female genital mutilation is commonly known as female circumcision.

It is just as wrong for males as it is for females.

So glad I had to girls. This would have been a conflict for me as I am Jewish and DH is not.

I keep coming back to this thread.

Beagles, if you are struggling so hard with this, then don't do it. Seems there are good points on both sides. The other choice is to do what was done or not for your DH.

Since I didn't have boys, I am not informed about the "looking different" part. Do boys parade around the locker room and have a discussion about who has what?

To be fair, Lars, years ago there was a much stronger consensus that circumcision had health benefits. So I think to judge what was done years ago is harsh.

Knowledge has evolved and so customs evolve, too. Today both are seen as legitimate choices.

In general comparing male circumcision to FGM really minimizes and is disrespectful, in my opinion, to the extreme pain, suffering and death that awaits victims of FGM.

There could be an argument that male circumcision is comparable to level 1a, FGM without clitoridectomy - e.g. removing the hood only. But anything beyond the most mild forms of FGM is comparable to penectomy and actually even much worse than that, so as we know it generally FGM is generally not comparable at all to male circumcision. As well of course FGM is not generally carried out in clinical conditions or with pain relief.

(I won't go into any more detail as it is so sad but here are the WHO classifications https://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/overview/en/)

Son born in 1993, and was circumcised. An aside; my father is not circumcised, and my mother had cervical cancer (a 2017 NIH study published in the Lancet reports that male circumcision reduces the risk of cervical cancer in their female partners, as well as reducing the risk for several other biomedical health outcomes). My father is now elderly and suffering from Alzheimer's, and hygiene is a major problem. He has had multiple and serious UTIs leading to sepsis.

..so to round up, if I'm allowed to do so-one can already see what parenthood looks like)

Whatever a mother (or parents) will do-some won't like it or would do it differently. Sometimes as a society, sometimes as a community, and sometimes, in her own family. (and latter is very often..saying it as a loving daughter who's just back from visiting her Mom))

So dear Beagles, you know that you make your decisions in a way that seems right to you, under circmustances that are best known to you, with knowledge and considerations available to you in the moment, and with love, and hope, and faith-because that's what we basically have with us when we make this big decision to give a life to somebody. Who is born into a certain family, certain times, certain place, you name it. You chose for him-but plenty of things were chosen for you too. You have a limited amount of control, and you do with it the best you can.

"Perfect" doesn't exist anyway and one shouldn't strive for it imo. Good enough is great though because it is full of life, real life-and it is achievable.

So you pick up a book that makes sense for you, so to say( to me was Dr. Spock-and I'm fully aware many others hated him, but I found him incredibly calming. Maybe Ukranian trabslation did its magic? lol)and try to worry less.(obviously "a book" can be a theory, a bunch of ideas, a gut feeling, an example you were impressed with, and many other things. Said "a book" to make it shorter)

I imagine it's very overwhelming to hear so many opinions at once at the time when one is so vulnerable and has to decide fast.

It's overwhelming to me-and I dodn't have to make any decision))

Again, I'm barbaric so I did the procedure, and healing went well. If I was not barbaric maybe I wouldn't even think of doing the procedure, and it'd be just as fine, and then I wouldn't be able to describe my anecdotal evidence of how the healing went, so that's my very limited and modest input. I did it, and in our case, healing went well.

I'm surrounded both by people who were circumsized and these who were not (starting with my own immediate family)-and that's not what makes a major difference, neither to me, nor, as far as I can judge, (or from what I could ask) to them. Not in daily life, not to their characters, not to nothing the sharp human eye like mine may discern))

Whatever you do/don't in this case..the chance it will be fine either way is huge.

Hugs,

April

I am so glad to hear it went smoothly. I personally think you made the right choice.

So glad for your update and that everything went smoothly.

I’m so happy that Bastian totally took the procedure in stride! Thanks for letting us know it went well.

Now start preparing yourself for ear aches, weird fevers, vaccinations, split lips, and bumps on the head....it will be worse for you then for your boy.