With two separate thermostats and two different rooms, I'd prefer to see a setup like the one below. It's certainly not the only way to do it. But it's fairly simple: Hopefully you can sort of reconcile what you have with the bits and pieces in the schematic. Again, you might not have all of them, or you might have more. And the bits and pieces don't have to be in the order or in the locations I have them. I'll start by writing about the shutoff valves. There are several in the schematic. They bracket some of the bits and pieces to allow maintenance on your system. Example, if you have to replace a pump, you can isolate the pump by turning off the shutoff valves on either side of the pump. If you have no shutoff valves, when you pulled the pump out of the loop, you'd lose all the water in your system. I prefer full port valves for shutoff. The photos are just for reference: So you have the water heater. Hot water comes out of the water heater and flows through a check valve. That valve prevents backflow or reverse flow through the water heater. Typical backflow valve: The pressure gauge allows you to monitor the pressure of the water in the system. I usually run closed systems at about 12psi of water pressure. After the pressure gauge is a "fill" hose bib. Just like a garden faucet hose bib, though you can certainly use something better. There's normally a hose connection down low on the water heater. You connect a garden hose to the water heater bib, open the "fill" hose bib, and fill the system with water. Or a water/glycol solution if you need freeze protection. After the fill bib is the expansion tank and the air eliminator. Since it's a closed system and water expands when hot and contracts when cool, the expansion tank allows the system to absorb those changes in water volume while allowing the system pressure to remain constant as 12psi. Expansion tank: Air eliminators have a couple of different looks: or this: To the right of the expansion tank is another "fill" valve that has a cold water supply plumbed into it. That's a pressure compensating valve set at, you guessed it, 12psi. If the system pressure drops below 12psi, that valve automatically opens and recharges the system to 12psi. The little lever on top allows you to add water manually. The valves are usually pressure-adjustable. I just happen to use 12psi as my setting. Why would you need to add water to a closed system? The air eliminator "burps" air from the system. Air in the system can cause turbulence noise when the water flows, a large bubble could cause flow problems or pump problems. So the air eliminator eliminates air. But sometimes water can dribble out too. So if/when you have water loss, the 12psi valve will recharge the loops with water. The "Temp in" gauge shows the water temp as it enters the loops. Usually about 120 degrees. Maybe more or less. Then the system branches off into two zones, one for the bathroom, one for the sunroom. Each zone has its own circulating pump. When the room's thermostat calls for heat, the circulating pump kicks on and circulates hot water through the zone and to the loops in the zone. Typical Taco pump: You can add a Grundfos Alpha pump. Very energy efficient: With two pumps, the rooms can be heated individually or concurrently. When the water returns from the zone(s), it goes through another temperature gauge. You can compare the Delta T or the change in temp of the water to see if the heat is being given up to the rooms. "Temp In" minus "Temp Out" equals Delta T. And there you go. Again, each zone can simply be a single loop of PEX. Small rooms can sometimes be served by a single loop that is on it's own zone. If the room is large and you need more PEX, then you can install a manifold for that zone and you can have several loops on that manifold. Again, each loop should only have about 225' maximum of tubing in the loop. If a room needed 350' of tubing, I'd split it into two loops of 175' each instead of a 225' loop and a 125' loop. Example of a four loop manifold, this manifold has the "temp in" and "temp out" gauges built in: That's a basic system with no real automation.

OK, I have an issue that does not allow me to purchase without over researching a product. So I did consider a few brands. I really like Miele, and they do have a larger unit. Nothing like the size of these, but I don't think you need something as big as these Samsung units to wash a comforter. Although I keep going back to Miele, the issue of their warranty and the lack of local people to sell and service the units takes them out of the running. I did look into Asko, but the small size and the bad reviews (over many years) makes them just an interesting read. I had a hard time deciding between LG and Samsung. I chose Samsung because of their Diamond drum technology. Although I was unable to find out much about it, it was similar to the honeycomb drum idea of Miele. That really closed the deal for me. I really felt that more manufacturers should have put more into their drum designs and make that information available. Sadly, only two lines have taken drum technology seriously and serious enough to flaunt it to the public. I ended up with the largest Samsung units because of the steam and the internet connectivity. (And frankly the deal I got.) I was hoping that if there was a problem, Samsung could just hook into the machine and tell me what is wrong. I'm not sure they can do that, but they can certainly update the units over the wireless. I would say that I was also impressed with the anti vibration technology. I wish they had explained the difference between the regular antivibration and the upgraded antivibration of these units. I imagine it is some computer sensing thing. I was also impressed with the warranty on the motors and the 2 year warranty. Oh, I just registered my units and got an additional 3 months warranty for registering. Thanks Samsung. I would add an extra year on my own by purchasing with Amex and eliminating the purchase of extended warranty. I looked into Speed Queen because they are American. Solid units but lack the modern technology and efficiency I was looking for. Rough sturdy brutes was all I could imagine from what I could find out about these products. I think the companies do themselves a disservice by not putting out all the information they can on their products. This is one case and point. I went as far as looking into purchasing commercial units, but when all is said and done, I felt that the Samsung units were a better deal. Service and warranty work is much different for commercial than on consumer models. Here is a really cool washing machine I found that I really wanted to get. I have a friend in CA who used to own Laundry Mats. He said, "That's a commercial unit. What do you need a commercial unit for?" Well, it looks so cool and is so well engineered etc. It was too much of a machine for my needs, but I really would have loved to have one. The Crossover Washer. (http://www.laundrylux.com/crossover.html) The world's first small chassis washer engineered to commercial laundry standards for your business needs. I think for the person who wants to have what no one else has, these units would be an interesting choice. Here is some more information on the Crossover: 3 Engineered to be superior to all competitors 3 15,000 cycle machine life design 3 3 OPL liquid chemical injection ports and signals 3 3 compartment soap drawer 3 4 professional wash programs + 2 cycle options 3 Field adjustable water levels 3 Top quality SKF bearings in heavy duty assembly 3 3 seals with 5 lips 3 Professional grade 8-point suspension 3 Pump-drain standard 3 Solid steel counter-weights�no concrete 3 Energy Star compliant The costs were about 2,000 a piece or less from what I remember. Stunningly beautiful beasts these are. They are made I believe by LaundryLux. I also looked at Miele Little Giants. Just amazing little laundry units, but way out of my price range for what I want to spend. I think these are made for people with yachts. These are also stunningly beautiful. The bottom line is I spent months looking at units. For me, with the space that I had and the money I wanted to spend, I settled on the Samsung. I had to use my Samsung units again tonight as the baby had an "out of diaper" experience. Not something for the faint of heart. Loved I could go and select sanitize on the computer screen and choose extra rinses and steams and prewashes and super hots etc. If they had nuclear radiation I would have chosen that too, but as of now, it is not an option on my units. I got a 3 hour cycle and trust me that is exactly what the job called for. I think I'm very happy right now with what I purchased. Look, as long as the darn units stay working without needing service etc, anything you buy will be fine. Again, I'm not happy about having to stand on a stool to see the dryer screens, but it really is not a big problem. The anti vibration on these really works great and the noise level is very good. The calming music the machines play to signal the end of the cycle is still OK with me and I'm not ready to beat the machine to death if it plays that tune one more time. Just if anyone wants to see how these machines do on a soiled white one piece baby garment, here is how it just came out of the washer. I don't think I can believe how clean and white this is. You cannot see where the mess was. I have had experience in the past with my other machine where the white clothing was stained yellow after such an incident. All I used was about 1/4 of the recommended amount of ECOS plus natural liquid from Sam's and a tiny amount of delft liquid softener. No bleach. I did hit it with some Oxy prewash spray before putting it in. Look, I have a laundry upstairs that I am doing. I decided to make it a "sound proof" room because of my experience with my old front loader. It was loud! Probably had gotten worse over the years because the bearings were going. So I double sheet rocked with green glue and put heavy clay on the backs of the electrical boxes. I put in a sound proof floor which I am waiting to tile right now. Well, I did all this because of my fear of the noise I would get from the front load machines. I think had I placed these Samsung units upstairs, the sound proofing would have been overkill. I'm hoping the GE unit I have for upstairs will be as quiet. I bet most of the better machines will be quiet. I think that the other companies caught up with Meile and have incorporated many of the concepts and bring these machines at a value price. Will they last the 20 years Miele says theirs will? I don't know, but these machines have a longer warranty then Miele and they can be found everywhere. This means that your chance of getting service should be good.

Well, I'm back again. MiniMax NT (400kBTU) Model 400DV with 6800 controller. This is an early model, ~2002 vintage - no LED error code display on this dinosaur. So, this week's problem: heater is short cycling - burners ignite for about 3-4 seconds then the gas valve kicks off, flames go out. 3 burners were not working, but I cleared all the orifices and they are all lighting now (but all still going out). Blower was making a horrible racket, but it ran like that for weeks until the whole heater stopped heating this week. Finally tore into the blower today. The impeller rusted all to hell, missing half of the vanes (see pic). Ordered a new one, but cobbled this one to run a bit longer in order to diagnose further. Front Panel Lights (see pic): Tstat: Green Aux: Green Press: Green Heat: OFF Power: Green Service (Exclamation Point): RED Internal Lights (see pic): PV: OFF (< anyone know what this one is for?) Tfuse: Green HiTemp: Green Igniter seems to be functioning (it fires seemingly fine). Replaced the flame sensor today. I assume new one is working correctly. I thought this was the problem for sure....but no. Note: My gas company has been working on the gas lines in the neighborhood recently. I've cycled the burners maybe 10+ times, thinking of air in the line, but problem remains unchanged. Questions: - What does the Red Service LED indicate? - What does the PV LED (inside) indicate? - If the blower is not blowing at full power, could that be the problem? (It most definitely is not at full power as it the impeller is totally shot). The pressure sense hose is connected from the blower to the sensor, but I don't know about the condition of that sensor. - Could this just be air in the gas line? Anyone have any other guesses/suggestions/ideas? My blower impeller finally exploded, so I won't be able to test again until I get the replacement on Monday. Collecting ideas for the next round.

there is a plant propogation book i have wherein the author describes his own mist system. that author has a large black coil of hose in the roof of his greenhouse so that water can be heated before reaching the mist nozzles. that's at least one vote for using warm water and keeping the cuttings reasonably warm as they root. just thought i would toss that in! lol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mosaic z8 LA (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 11:59 With such a setup you could probably root roses under mist all winter here in Louisiana. And then as an added bonus, you could save on your power bills all summer by using it to steam your veggies :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: tammyinwv z6/WV (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:05 i have been unable to find the mist heads even within an hr from my home.Someone mentioned here they found them for .50 each.would anyone be willing to get me a couple and mail them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: wild_garden virginia z6b (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:32 at my lowes store the mist heads where in the indoor gardening area next to the register, i doubt the people at lowes would have even know what to look for. it was with the drip irrigation supplies, as i said in the indoor gardening area next to the big outdoor area where they sell trees and things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mist heads supply source Posted by: RoseHawke 7b AL (My Page) on Mon, May 12, 03 at 10:37 For you folks that haven't been able to find the heads locally, try going to this site: Dripworks or here's a direct link to one of the pages with some heads:Misters . I just a couple of weeks ago ordered some irrigation supplies from them and received them quite quickly. About 4 days if I remember correctly. Haven't had a chance to put it together yet, which is probably just as well as the flood we had last week would've probably washed everything down the creek ;-). I also have the Melnor timer, and it does seem a bit confusing about its ability to do a mist cycle, but what you're doing is programing it to do one cycle (on in the am; off in the pm) and punching in a choice of watering pattern, in this case the off for 10" on for 2" pattern. I believe the idea behind the pattern was/is actually to help prevent water run-off when doing overhead watering by allowing the water to soak in between the on phases. I bought this particular timer though because when I looked at it my mind said "Ah! Mist!" (heh), even though the reason I bought it at the time was to keep a new patch of zoysia sod watered until it rooted in. My batteries did last all season last year, but it was only opening that valve 4x a day for 3 weeks, and then 1x every 4 days for a couple of months. I can see where a misting pattern of opening and closing that valve many times during the day may eat batteries, but as ShamanSherpa pointed out, it's still cheaper than a $100+ misting timer! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: patclem z7 (or 6) TN (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 03 at 8:32 Regardless of how much water it wastes, etc, I decided to experiment with misting. I am TERRIBLE at rooting cuttings. I've tried baggies. I've tried jars. I've tried special cutting trays with plastic domes. I've had one rooted cutting out of probably 50. I had the same problem finding true super-fine mist systems in the south. None at Lowe's, none at HD. They're not popular here because they don't have the same evaporating effect they have in less humid areas of the country - they make you wet here. Here's where I found mist heads. They didn't charge me anything for shipping. They were super-good to deal with online. Web Page - Phone/Fax 888-693-0578 Local/Fax (719) 495-2266 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W401; Product: Monarch Misting Nozzles M-1; Amount: $7.40 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W519; Product: Reducing Tee for Monarch Misting Nozzles; Amount: $4.40 You have to go to Lowe's or local hardware store and get a hose adapter, timers, 1/2" PVC, PVC caps, etc. I have mine set up with 2 mist heads, and about a 6' diameter section of my grass is soaked! I don't have mine on a timer yet. Results? I don't have any yet, except none of my cuttings have turned black yet. PS - I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THIS BUSINESS IN ANY WAY! Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Heads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fuselighter 7/WA (My Page) on Thu, May 29, 03 at 21:41 I am so excited about the misting bed. I went out and bought all the supplies today. Total cost was about $15 (my husband had PVC and elbows left over from installing the sprinkler system). I would like to go to an intermittent system eventually, but for now I am going with continuous. The water bill is not an issue because we have an irrigation system (there is an annual fee but it is not based on usage). I set the whole thing up in about an hour. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: debbinard Z4CO (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 10:54 Shamansherpa -- I could not open your picture! I live in Colorado, it gets very warm middle of June (up to upper 90's) and stays low humidity. We are on outsidewater restrictions 2xweek, so I'm not sure this method would fly. Am wondering how visible this is, or if inside is an option under lights. At any rate, I would like to propigate some rose cuttings now (is this a good time?) My daughter in law is moving and would love some plants from a rose with sentimental value. Is the rooting hormone used just the usual or special for roses? Thanks Deb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 13:48 Deb, Maybe you could call your water extention office and see if you can get special permission, exsplain to them how little water it uses. Yes you use rooting hormone, there are many available. Dip and grow I here is supposed to be really good. I got some of the more exspensive stuff from a friend whom bought it threw rose imporium on line. But you can always use something like dip and grow. Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: rose_enthusiast z7 TX. (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 15:47 Hi there Deanna! It seems to me you've managed to help a lot of people with your invaluable info. And I would like to thank you for inspiring me to start a misting bed to root my cuttings. I have one question to add to the many others you've been getting though... What rose company is it that you get your rooting hormone from? Is it Rose Emporium or the Antique Rose Emporium? I would like to purchase this product as well, since you and this company are using this to successfully root your cuttings. Thanks Again, Carlos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 1:31 Carlos, Thank you but we should all thank AngieAnders, she is the one who did all the research and work to discover this method and then post it here for us last year! She truly diserves all the credit. I just wanted to keep any new people aware that have just started rooting this year. Best of luck all and don't forget to post your sucess! Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: epiphany z5b PA (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 9:28 I found the Arizona Mist system which is by Orbit as mentioned at Wal-Mart. It has 12' of tubing, end cap, six misting heads and hose adapter for $14.95. Of course, it is once again cold and wet here,......all of a balmy 56°. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: auntnana 6 TN (My Page) on Thu, Jun 5, 03 at 13:06 I ordered the misting heads mentioned above from Dripworks last year and they don't put out a fine mist as much as they do a fine spray/droplets. And even though I had a pressure regulator on there, I kept having a problem with the heads blowing off! (Their drippers work perfectly by the way so it's nothing against the company) I ordered foggers from Misty Mate this year and they put out a super fine fog. Perfect for propagation. They are a litte more expensive than the ones from Dripworks but worth it. And if you ask they will ship the misting heads for $1.50. I went to HD and bought a 10-24 tap and drill set (3.00) and drilled holes in my 1/2" cvpvc and the heads just screwed right in! I bought a Melnor timer at HD for $39 and it has 1 minute spray options so I've got it set for 1 minute every 10 minutes. Can't remember the model number but it's not the one on the HD website. I hope to finish my new propagation box soon. I built one on a stand this year so I can move it around easily. Wouldn't you know, HD has plastic sheeting made just for greenhouses that I used! It's not the real thick heavy stuff either. It's only 4mil and is crystal clear see-thru! Hopefully I'll be finished this week!