I tried to do the same thing with Royalty purple bush beans a couple of years ago. They just kept hanging on, leathery, and I finally gave up. Like many bush beans, I think they have been selected so intensely for their holding power that they take forever to make seeds. I decided a packet of fresh seeds was a very good deal.

No, I wouldn't throw them out. Dry them indoors. If they were not totally dry when they got rained on, that would be all the better. But if they don't sprout then you should hang onto them. Just dry them (indoors & not in a lot of heat)until they are so dry that you can snap a seed in half, or at least cannot dent it with a fingernail. I usually let mine dry, in a bowl in my planter or on some shelf, for about a week, just to be sure. (I would store this seed separately from any later seed you should process, since it may not be of the same quality of seed which didn't get rained on.) After the seed is dry seal it in a jar and freeze it in your freezer for 2 days. This assures that there are no live weevil eggs in the seed. Weevils always lay eggs in bean seed. It's often impossible to detect this. But if you don't freeze the seed you'll find in a couple of months that it will be shot through with holes. This greatly reduces viability of the seed. Now, since you're just doing your Creaseback seed, this may not seem very important. But you might as well start out building good habits. Label your seed right from the start! It's so easy to get seed mixed up if it's not labeled. We actually keep a "Strays" jar in the kitchen. Any bean seed which we cannot definitely identify goes into that jar, and sometime down the road, ... into a good soup.

The number of plants needed varies. It's not the same for all vegetables. I don't have the information available right now but my reasoning is the same as yours regarding beans. I don't worry about how many plants are represented in my saved seed. But then, I don't consider myself a careful guardian of any strain either. I figure, if one of my beans deteriorates, I can get new seed to replace it. None of my varieties are so rare they can't be replaced. I doubt you will see a loss of viability from saving beans over several generations. What is more likely is that there would be some changes due to mutation or cross pollination. Those doesn't happen often, but over a long enough period of time there is some probability of it occurring. As Carol Deppe says in her book, Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties, all seed saving is plant breeding because there is always some selection involved, whether intentional or not. In that sense you are right to be concerned about maintaining a true strain. But, if I understand it correctly, beans are one of the easiest to maintain. Jim

In general, beans are not likely to cross, but I remember George saying the last year or two that he's had more crossing recently than ever before. I guess the proper way to say it is that beans are self-pollinating and do not cross easily, but bees and other pollinators can sometimes carry pollen from one to another and cause cross-pollination. There is one bean type that crosses and I think it is the runner bean, but they only cross with other runner beans. So, if you wanted to save seed from a runne bean, you'd need a half-mile isolation between two different types, or you could bag or use window screen type cages. Now, while you are lying in bed contemplating starting your day over, I'll drag out my copy of Seed to Seed, and we'll see what Suzanne Ashworth says....hold on while I get the book...oh, wait, you don't have to hold on. You're lying there in bed starting over again while I'm doing all the work. : ) Suzanne says: "Leguminosae flowers are self-pollinating, but are occasionally crossed by honeybees and other insects. The flowers usually open between 7 a.m. and 8 a.m.and never close. The anthers "dehisce" (shed pollen) the evening before the flowers open. The pollen does not usually get transferred to the stigma until the flower is disturbed or tripped, usually by the wind. Insects, especially bees, also visit the flowers and can cause some degree of cross-pollination." How's that? So, for seed-saving purposes, she goes on to say, Leguminosae seed may require isolation, bagging or caging depending on the following factors: the larger the flower, the more likely it is to be visited by bumble bees and/or honey bees. Wherever more desirable pollens are available, the bees are more likely to visit them instead of your legumes. Insects that have smooth bodies are less efficient at carrying pollen so are less likely to cause cross-polliantion, and the insects that chew through the sides of the flowers to reach the nectar likely will not come into contact with pollen and transfer it. All common beans that are Phaseolus vulgaris, as I believe your listed varieties are, are indeed inbreeding, so perfect and self-pollinating, but she says refer back to the items I listed above when decided how to maintain seed purity. She says at the very least, don't plant two types of beans right side by side, and certainly do not plant brown seed next to brown seed or white seed next to white seed. Instead, alternate plantings by seed color to make it easier for you to tell visually if crossing has occurred. I looked back and couldn't find anywhere on the Legume Family page where she specified a crossing distance, but since she recommends 1/2 mile for runner beans, that might be what is requied. If it were me, I'd just bag 'em. : ) Maybe George will see this and link his bean-crossing post. You know, if you'd just let them all cross with one another you could inadvertently end up with a bean you could name something like: Cooper's Tennessee Old Time Greasy Trail of Kentucky Wonder beans. I looked for George's old thread but couldn't find it, not even with a Google search, but I found an interesting thread on the topic of bean crossing and I've linked it below for your reading pleasure. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: A Bean Forum Thread About Bean Crossing