I don’t know about plumbers and normal protocol, but could you get another estimate without telling the plumber what you were told is the problem? It is enough money that I would want another estimate.

I hope it all works out for you.

Have already started the process for that, it's $200-300 to run the camera for every company or licensed plumber but meh... you gotta do it.

Sounds way too cheap, by at least half. And that would still be cheap at that. My neighbor paid 35K.

Are you sure he’s replacing the entire run to the street? Or just that one section? It should be the whole run.

The cost is going to depend on the distance, and if it has to go out into the street or not (not to mention local labor costs, etc). Cutting the street can get expensive.

Yes, you do have to get more than one inspection - even if that's a couple hundred bucks.

Save your and another contractor's time please. The camera doesn't lie.

For a job of that magnitude I would certainly get bids from other reputable plumbers including their analysis of what is necessary to do. I can't imagine hiring a firm without getting another if not two other bids and solutions. Also, is it possible to get personal references - internet references may or may not be totally reliable.

is there some way you can "own" the video footage so that you are presenting the problem to other plumbers?

If not, it still seems worth it to have other plumbers analyze and bid.

Not sure if it is the same but my friend had to put in a new line to the City sewer system a year or so ago when she remodeled her home in Los Angeles and she said it cost about $15,000 for the work. I don't know the actual scope because some of it required payment to the City for the connection - there was just a normal distance between her home and the street - e.g. it wasn't a long set back driveway but a home on a residential street with sidewalks.

She said it was a very common occurrence in her neighborhood and as I recall it was required because of the remodeling - e.g. the old connection was grandfathered in but a remodel needed new lines to the sewer. The neighborhood was developed in the late 1940's and since it is in a desirable area on the West Side there are lots of remodels and even tear downs so she said now she can spot the new lines all over when she drives around her neighborhood because she sees the digging that is being done to make the connection to the street.

When we first bought our home there was major issues with the sewer drain pipes under the house, leaks everywhere in the cast iron and in some area holes up to 8 inches long, it was a mess. We got several quotes that ranged between 10k and 12k to replace all the sewer lines under the house only. We ended up doing the work ourselves to save money, but after completing the job 12k felt low.

"We ended up doing the work ourselves to save money, but after completing the job $12k felt low."

Funny, I feel more that way all the time about projects.

Haha Jake, you and me both. Oh well in too deep now! All I can say is I’ve learned a great deal about what I will never do on my own again, regardless if I’m capable or not.

catinthehat - What tools did you use to dig up the ground? Did you have sonar equipment to make sure you weren't going to hit underground cables, gas lines, etc? That sounds a bit extreme. I take on projects like paint, drywall and tiling, but when it comes to plumbing, I'd rather let the pro's handle it.

It is the section from the front of the house clear out to the sewage, not the internal house pipes which hopefully are fine. I am having other contractors come this week and we will see what happens.

In my professional line of work, sometimes we need to “clear” an area before bringing a backhoe or excavator to uncover a pipe for repair or replacement. We use what is GPR, or ground penetrating radar. Cost for that service on a job like yours would run about $500-$1000. The service is really for the contractor, because it gives them clearance to use heavy equipment to do the digging. If the job is small/shallow enough, you can excavate by hand and never use GPR.

Having said that, there is another option to rehab your pipe, and that is using a plastic sleeve to coat the inside. Almost no digging required for this option. This option won’t work if the drainage slope is compromised though. I would get a second opinion on what that camera is saying.

In our area we use Miss Dig. They come out and mark all the gas, water, sewer and electric al lines. Your city or township must belong to it, $$$. There is one small city south of us that has a sign as you come into town that says, “Not a Member of Miss Dig.”

So I got 2 more contractors out to use a camera and check it out..

The good news is they found the same problem area's with "bumps" and water settling because the slope isn't there. The diagnosis is to replace the sewage pipes, going from PS20 to PS40 and keep the tree's in shape. They had gone crazy with roots all over the place, still in the process of taking them out.

The "sigh" news is 1 quote was for $15,200. The other one recommended me to a specialist who I will see on Friday.

The house is only 20 years old, so it's a little annoying but I feel it's due to the mismanagement of surrounding large tree's... lesson learnt.

Jake the Wonderdog - No, we have not found any "breaks" with the camera but there are noticeable bumps and bends with pressure from tree roots. And there is basically an area of 8 feet that remains underwater. There are 2 clears outs , I forget what they're called, but they allow you to go into the pipes from above ground and you can pretty much see the damaged area. The part under the concrete slab is fine. I have had multiple pro's say the same thing without me telling them about the other's, and the diagnosis is just to dig and replace the area from 1 clear out the street , upgrading from pc20 pipes to pc40.

Tree roots can be pruned just like branches.

Like Joe said, camera's don't lie... if there is a tree root they have special tools like snake augers to clean that out.

Something like this

They also have liquid treatment that will eat the roots up in the sewer line. This situations can be treated and it's done all the time on older homes.

If there is a more serious problem like the pipe it separated or like he stated it settled and there is a bend in it (usually near the foundation)... a section of the pipe should be removed and replaced.

The cost you got is fairly reasonable, you have to get permits, excavate, get it inspected, do the repair, put stone, back-fill the trench, bring top soil, grading and seeding. The cost for such repairs is usually anywhere between 6-10k or in some cases it's more it depends on the access, and other site conditions.

Good luck

I suggest that you try just having the line cleared of roots before going for replacement. The sewer line in one of my rental houses slows down every 3-4 years because of tree roots. When the tenants complain, I just send the root cutter guys to ream it out, and it's fine again for another 3-4 years.

I think I could probably own that house the rest of my life (and probably will), and not pay $7k in sewer line cleaning costs, to say nothing of $15k.

If it's the roots from a dead tree, usually it's a one shot deal, you run a root auger and that will solve the issue for good... hopefuly.

If the tree is a full grown tree still on the property, after auger treatment you can use something like Root-X or HD got cheaper products like Zep Root-Kill and treat the pipe twice a year and you will be fine unless the root will make the pipe separate or split in half and when that happens replacement is inevitable.

On the general note, most homeowners or landlords don't wanna dish-out all that cash or just simply can't afford it, they will treat the root issue whenever the problem arises or if the problem gets worst and treatment will do them no good, they will be forced to replace.

If the pipe is settled and there is a bend in it as the camera indicated or got back-pitch'd... you not left with much of a choice but to replace.

Ok... I guess I'm not clear on something:

This is a 20 year old home with schedule 20 PVC drain. There shouldn't be any tree roots "In" it unless there's a broken pipe. You see roots in a clay tile system where there are gaps in the connections

.

My understanding is that the OP is saying the shifting is due to tree roots on the outside of the pipe.

I'm still a little skeptical... A short section of drain that isn't sloped correctly can cause problems over time (with buildup of solids) but running the drain will typically solve that. We all have drains with short sections that aren't pitched right... they are called traps. I don't understand why this is suddenly a problem.

I'm also not clear on the "So after it rains, the drainage gets worse".

If there are tree roots in the pipe, and if after it rains there's more water in the pipe, then the pipe is broken and probably has been for some time.

I agree with you Jake, the only time I came across root issue was in older homes with cast iron pipe settling and comes apart at the joint because of that and that is where the roots or some other growth enters the pipe. Also the pipe slope increases due to settlement because it's pitched down from the get go, the only thing I gather from this if this is a cast iron pipe, settlement occurred at the joint and the joint separated,both pipes sank down and created a depression at that point where water is collecting and when it rains the ground water floods that area.

PVC pipes usually settle and rarely they will crack because of that, they would bent, unless the settlement is near the joint and the joint cracks allowing the root to penetrate.

The camera determined there is a root issue and there is a back-pitch/depression that prevents water from draining... Sounds like there is a bigger issue than just the root, the only way to tell is to dig down and see exactly what is going on.

In my area, the going cost for a dig is $3,000 to $5,000 for a basic job, more for longer distance, or having to go into the right of way. One permit is needed for the plumbing work with a different one for breaking into the sidewalk and street, if that is necessary, plus contractor or DIY homeowner must have a completion bond on file. Lining the pipes is a minimum of $3,800 plus $140/ft after 10 feet. I just had a rental property sewer ran with the camera and the company was using the low cost camera service as a lead generator. Their very profitable no-dig option is more expensive than digging but doesn't destroy the landscaping.

Previous tenant of that property worked as a laborer for a sewer contractor and I heard a few stories which did not improve my general impression of that profession. I am sure there are some good honest companies in that line of business but it might take a bit of work to find them. I do know that there is nothing simple about some of these jobs; watch someone who knows how to dig and it looks like all that is required is to pick up the shovel and start in. Turns out that getting a trench of the right width, depth and direction is tougher than it might seem.

Rarely you would have to go into a roadway and if you must the town's water and sewer department or someone they sub-contract will be doing the work and be responsible for anything behind the curb, because all this companies are insured and bounded and have contracts with municipality.

"It is really expensive"

Well, that's certainly helpful. Thank you.

Bots are enjoying a resurgence.