Uglyripe is an open pollinated tomato, meaning it will pollinate with any other tomato growing in it's vicinity. This will change the following year's fruit. If you want to keep the same parentage line of the fruit you would need to either plant a whole field of the same plant, or in a mixed garden, tie a fine mesh bag around a cluster of flowers as they are emerging. Give it room to grow. Then flick the flowers every day as they open, to pollinate them yourself. Tie a ribbon around that cluster so you know which tomatoes that ripen will carry on that strain. You can save those seeds for next year. Beefmaster, to my knowledge is a hybrid, which may revert back to it's crosspollinated parentage if you use the same technique. Meaning you might get a different tomato next year. Better to buy fresh seed each year. Heirlooms are generally open pollinated tomatoes that people have grown from year to year. And passed on through the generations. Because they were good. If you want to preserve a particular tomato variety you would need to isolate it from others to prevent crosspollination, or use the bagging method. If you just want to eat them, plant and go. It's fun to just save seeds to see what will grow next year too, but you can't claim it will be the same as last year. I wouldn't trade those seeds.

Thanks for that timeline. Isn't it interesting how a variety can remain true for so long while in its native environs and then within ten years of introduction to the rest of the world, evolve so suddenly into other expressions? ***** Yes, I do think it's interesting and I'm trying to think of other comparable examples, but this is not the time of day that I do my best thinking. LOL I know Keith has said somewhere that that the CP and I think it was CG that Craig sent him have not been stable for him. But other than some wrong CP being sold all three have been genetically stable for me and quite a few other folks. And Craig also sent me CP right after he got the seeds from John Green and I've grown it many times since 1991 or so and it's still fine. However, I'm sure that Craig is more likley to see any changes b'c of the large number of plants that he grows to sell at the Farmer's Market and possibly feedback from those. But the CP to CC change occurred in his own toamto patch. Randomness at work? Why not. And the CC to CG change occurred in Darrell Merrell's patch and until recently Darrell was growing huge numbers of plants for retail sale. Aha, I did think of one other more recent example and that's all the variations of some of Brand Gates varieties. I keep telling him he's growing on top of a nuclear pile, LOL, but seldom have I see so many different varieties arise in such a short time. And since those are recent ones, I don't know how they'll stand up to time as well. All the color change ones I've known and experienced that were probably epidermis mutations have remained stable for me. I think I still have a pink Cuostralee and a pink Great Divide, and both should be red as in the original. But I don't send out seed that's not what the original should be. And flipping thru the Yearbook pages I see other color change ones, such as Amana Orange to I can't remember what. The question that usually comes to mind for me when instability is discussed is whether a variety was never stable in the first place and it's just continueing to segregate or whether a change was due to DNA mutation and that mutation was permanesntly expressed afterwards. Carolyn

Hey everyone ... Yup, got the Cherokee Purple PL, from our Spud bud last season. I started 6 seeds, got 6 beautiful PL plants. Kept 1 and sent the rest packing to friends and family. No RL's in sight. Everyone really liked them a lot. They were one of our top 5 tomatoes of last year. I meantioned it to a couple of friends, and what can I say, no-one can pass up ANY FORM of Cherokee Purple, lol. NOW - what I am unsure of is if this tomato was "born" mutated or if it was created. There were certain features about the PL version that "could" suggest a mutation, and that was the cracking spiral on the crown. But if you got RL Mark - maybe these were created ? Mark do your CP RL look like the original RL ? Could you post a pic so we can compare ? Again, I'm not sure. But I did save seed from my harvest - sent some to PV and some others in TX, and started my own in 2007. Everyone got PL. I am growing both the RL & PL Cherokee Purple. My saved seed for the PL, and a wonderful lady named "raisemybeds" Cherokee Purple RL seed. Mark, if you'd like some of my seed stash, I'd be happy to mail them to you. I'm almost positive we were going to trade for "something" this season, and instead of a SASE I could drop some CP PL seed in. On the topic of leaf forms. I do believe there are leaf forms that display both RL & PL traits. I've been under the impression they are called "Intermediate" leaf forms. I first noticed it on a Lillians Yellow plant. I grew 2 in a 5-Gallon pot and one of the leaves "looked" PL, but had "thumbs" and maybe a finger or 2 on each side. After some research, and "consultation" I found out about "Intermediate" leaves. (the Lillians X produced a beautiful medium sized bi-color). The most recent "Intermediate" leaf form that I can describe this season, is the "RL" version of Polish C. The leaves resemble oak leaves, but are not VERY pointy/serrated. To me, it points towards PL, and knowing it HAS/HAD PL genes its porb. a combo. Does any of that make sense ? ~ Tom ps. Flat Head Monster, and the SpudTula plants are for another thread Mark ; ) ... Here is a link that might be useful:

Mine look just like that before they ripen, I think, but they ripen to a dark purpley red. So see how they ripen up first. I would post photos but I ate the last ripe CP yesterday. I will have to wait to more on my counter to ripen. Unless I am mixing up my varieties. German Johnson, Cherokee Purple and Early girl are the only "large" ones that have ripened to eating stage for me yet. Sue