hairmetal4ever we also got -14 but that was with wind chill. Definitely had zone 5 weather here and zone 4 with wind chill. It just surprised me because the CQ part leafed out and then burned up. Darn I loved that thing but will not put in another CQ as this Winter showed if we have an exceptional year it can't cope. I have 4 other Jap Maples that did fine. The person that writes a gardening column here for the paper I think stated she lost 7 Jap Maples so I was feeling real good when all of mine were leafing out at that time. :) I won't keep the tree as I like to many cultivars to keep a normal palmatum, let alone it would be too big anyway for that space. I'll pot it though for a year or so and send it out to my brother's farm. :) Al I appreciate your opinion. Normally I would have pruned the rootstock leaves but not being sure if it would releaf had decided to leave them to feed the tree until I got some other opinions. Just ticks me off that I am now short a Jap Maple. Appreciate the comments on the Picea. I could hear Ken in my head saying every few years you lose interior needles so thought that was it and now know for sure. Cher

pteroceltis, It looks like you have a bit more experience with this tree than I do. As you can see by my User Name, I'm a big fan of Acer griseum. Here's what I do know that may help you: Seeds: Most seeds contain an embryo and hardly any endosperm to speak of. Another plant that shares this characteristic is the orchid. Understanding how the orchid propagates naturally by seed, I think, can help us understand how griseum does as well. The orchid bursts out millions of dust-like seeds on the forest floor. Those that land on a specific fungi will find the nutrients necessary for the seed to germinate. On their own, they do not have the CHO or the proteins to create roots or shoots. Likewise, griseum needs a food-source for germination. Also, the casing is extremely hard and thick. Scarification really isn't enough. It's a wonder that the tree has made it this far in evolution. Forgive me if you don't believe in evolution. Whether we came from a similar ancestor as the monkey or not, plants do adapt over time, and natural selection does occur. Anyway, some propagators have had success using this understanding and have almost surgically removed the embryos and placed them in a nutrient-rich petri-dish. The embryo germinates and we have a new plant. Vegetative propagation: The general rule is, the younger the stem tissue, the more likely it will root. Seedling cuttings root pretty easily. But, seedlings are small and have very little stem to use. It's like a cycle: Take a seedling, cut it, root it, you now have another seedling. And, to get the original seedling, you have to get the seed to germinate. The trick we use is to almost force the well-established stock plant to succor: Hack it down low to the ground. Then, several immature stems come up. Then, use those to root. But, you have to let it grow green a little to continue to feed the roots. So, let one stem grow as a leader for the season. Ok, that's griseum. But, the other plant you mentioned was cappadocicum. I will not pretend to be an expert on this plant. I know that it is related to truncatum; which easily hybridizes with platanoides (Norway). Is Norway not an aggressive weed up in your part of the country? So, my assumption - and sorry this was so long - my assumption is that Forestfarm used cappadocicum as a rootstock because of it's aggressive tendencies to your area. But, it is not as aggressive as platanoides. So, you have a rootstock that will be extremely successful in your area with an ornamental top. Here's the concern: Maples are broken down into several groups. There really should be several genus' to break them down. Perhaps there will some day. For example, the Sugar Maple Group contains: Sugar, Silver, Red, Bigtooth Boxelder, Black, and some others. Japanese, for example, is not one of them. Nor is griseum. However, Boxelder is. Follow me here. The more related they are, the more compatible they are and the more likely the graft will take and last. I talked with a professor by e-mail at Penn State a few years ago. He was doing a test on graft compatibility of a Red scion and a Sugar stock. It looked successful for six years. During the seventh year, the graft split and the trees fell at the graft. I don't know if griseum and cappadocicum are in the same group or not. I don't believe they are. However, Boxelder is trifolate and is in the Sugar group. cappadocicum is almost a webbed palm. As far as maples go, there isn't a more entire leaf that I've seen. It's the flower, fruit and seed that determines the relatedness, not the leaf. So, I'd ask Forestfarm just how long this union has lasted in their experience. Just because it took in the greenhouse and lasted a few years at the farm, does not mean it will last for a lifetime in someone's landscape. I'm sorry if I confused or frustrated you. I just want you to understand why I would check with the grower their success on it. I'd hate your favorite tree to fall over one of the years during a wind storm. ericpaul

This seems to be the norm PERVERTED leaves...on those that got hit by the freeze..I figure it's just a reaction... the newer stuff on many of the older perverted leaf trees seems better but I have big, tiny, curley,twisted even some slight variegation on many of my "hit" JM's. And my vareagated trees are phenominal the stress seems to have made them absolutly beautiful and heavily variegated. I have ones that make yours look "normal" (remember the AKA is a weird convoluted leaf naturally)some of mine look like they were exposed to radiation ;>)..I wouldn't worry just be glad it has leaves...many folks including me have some dead and dying ones ...Look out for pseudomonus it seems to have taken a liking to many of these stressed trees ...I assume more will die over the summer or next winter from stress related stuff it ain't over yet...But consider yourself LUCKY yours looks healthy!!!!!! David

It would need to have a very special site in zone 4. I see that its growth rate varies quite a bit based on zone but they generally are very slow growing. They've grown mere inches on the lots I planted specimens. For example the very first one I planted was about about 7 years old at the time of planting and its now 16 years old. Its 7' tall but its caliper is close to 6". I have a different 7' tall specimen that is more narrow growing so their habits vary quite a bit. I feel like they are generally more narrow and dense due to dieback in our zone. I spotted one at a property that was tucked away in the middle of nowhere (outskirt of West Bend, WI) that had either a hybrid or species that was 20'+. If its the species...wow. I'm tempted to go back and ask the owner if I can look at it. Most of the hybrids grow faster. Shaved Chocolate likely has the best exfoliating bark. I have one that is roughly 7 years old and its 6' tall but was moved from its original planting location. I have a Bronze tablet that put on 2' of growth this year but in a very special east cove planting. 1 gallon plant from Song Sparrow 2 years ago. I share pics later when I'm at my home computer. Its by far my favorite tree so I collect all the hybrid cultivars. Now if I could only find that damn sugar and paperbark hybrid.