Ohh that does make sense. I don’t know where it fits - probably modern farmhouse-ish?

Oh no...!

LOL

And this is why I don’t like getting advice on here. It’s 90% smart remarks and 10% actual help. Thanks for nothing.

Agreed. Were the remarks by the two "Pro's" above necessary?

Okay, here is some good advice.

Go out and buy "A Field Guide to American Houses" by Virginia & Lee McAlester and/or "American Shelter" by Lester Walker. Those are two books I use to determine the architectural style of a house. Use those books to determine the style of your home. You will notice the absence of "modern farmhouse" in both books. "Modern farmhouse" simply means there is board & batten siding on the house somewhere, and has a broad definition that renders it useless.

Once you have determined the true architectural style of your home you are better prepared to seek out what trim is appropriate for your home. There are many books out there that can help, one potentially being "Homes & Interiors of the 1920's: A restoration Design Guide" by Lee Valley. I try to use books because the information tend to be more reliable, because as we all know :"The problem with information on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." ~ Abraham Lincoln (source: the Internet)

You may also want to contact a local interior designer that does not believe modern farmhouse is a viable architectural style to help you select the appropriate trim.

Typical sizes are 3 1/2" window & door casing and 5 1/2" wall base but typical is rarely the standard used by professionals.

You should expect inside jokes from professionals when the information provided is inadequate for a serious answer. Search the forum for modern farmhouse to understand the joke.

How about "While we need more information to answer adequately as professionals what I'd recommend for now is go out and buy......"? Again, I ask, was the joke necessary?

Yes, very necessary.

Yep!

The delayed development of social skills is an essential part of the creative development. of an architect. For evidence, visit the drafting room of a school of architecture. For the architects on the forum, that delay is unusually long otherwise, they would not be wasting their valuable time and effort for no apparent reward.

Just because a term wasn’t used in books written decades ago doesn’t make it invalid. The fact that a few “pros” dislike the term (and change, it would seem) is likewise irrelevant. More often than not, Virgil and Mark’s comments are condescending, rude, and detracting. Being helpful on occasion doesn’t excuse the other 90% of their trolling (“what does your architect say?” is rarely a helpful answer). It’s truly sad how they speak to people sometimes. Of course, they’re not the only “pros” who fall in that camp. Apparently that label comes with a sense of superiority for some. To the OP, to answer your original question, for the exterior of our custom build, which I think would appropriately deemed modern farmhouse, our exterior window trim is 4 inches. The interior, which will be Scandinavian-transitional is approx 2 3/4 trim for the windows, and 3 1/2 for the base I believe. For our aesthetic, we wanted as minimal as possible (it will be painted to match the walls).

A few more thoughts with respect to deciding on the size. Other factors that came into play for me in addition to my desire for a minimal aesthetic were: no crown molding, trim profile look (eg Princeton vs flat stock), and window size/spacing.

Ok I looked up in the forum on modern farmhouse and can understand the joke completely. But not everyone does know that, so if a new person were to post on here and get those remarks, I think it would completely turn them away and discourage them from using Houzz for these purposes.

Kirsten Eloise - THANK YOU. Well said. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

With that said, I do not have a degree in architecture nor do I have the slightest interest in it. (Insert remarks from a pro here that says "clearly!") Maybe someone could help me understand why a house needs to have a defined architectural "style"? We are basically going by what we like, since what I've seen of certain styles, it's not a one size fits all. We like parts of modern, we like parts of craftsman, etc. Which is why I wasn't able to provide "adequate information."

RES, in response to the forum pros "valuable time," is this a job for them? I'm not even sure what reward they get from replying, unless Houzz pays.

The reason for a defined style is so your house doesn't wind up looking like a Frankenstein house. A little bit of this and a little bit of that. Houses should look cohesive both inside and out.

cpartist - that makes sense, but who notices besides architects and others in the field? I know I certainly wouldn't since I'm not familiar with architectural styles.

also - have architectural styles been updated to fit modern day? Or do we still go by the styles of yore? 1900s, etc.

Lucy, I think it’s the kind of thing where you notice if you care. If someone isn’t familiar with the craftsman style, they likely wouldn’t notice if a window trim profile/size from a different style is used. But if craftsman is the look you are going for, that term can help people point you in a clear direction. If that’s not the look you’re going for, or you don’t have a clear direction, but you like wide flatstock trim, that’s okay too! You can like different elements from various styles, and communicate your preferences that way (I like a from x, b from y, etc.) IMO, seeing it drawn out is the best way to feel confident it looks cohesive even if you’re working within a clearly defined style.

We go by both modern and styles of yore. However I just went to your other thread. I'm sorry but there is nothing farmhouse or modern about your house. If I had to give it a name, I'd say it leans somewhat towards craftsman except roofs weren't so peaked like the one over the garage.

Lucy have you started building yet or is it still just on paper?

I start out with a baseline spec of:

(approx. sizes) 5.25" base, 3.25" casing, double thick stool (some incorrectly call this a sill)

Windows if wrapped, would have a slightly larger and thicker top overhung by approx. 1" as would doors. All the material is flat stock with eased edges.

If the home is higher end, with 12' ceilings, the base goes to 7" in those areas. Sometimes the casing gets 1" larger IF the home has adequate framing space around the doors & windows.

Contemporary or modern homes vary. Lots of kerfed (trimless) doors, minimal window finishes, etc. I have a spec in front of me that shows an "F" channel around all doors and above the base. Its a drywall detail primarily, but it effectively doubles my finish carpentry costs, adds $125 per door in materials, adds T&M costs to drywall finishing around the doors and baseboards (imagine a couple of trips around the house on your knees).

cpartist - I'm afraid to say this, but it is still on paper. I don't know the style, I said modern farmhouse because we're going to do interior designing loosely following what is out there. We are in the bidding process, and one of the builders we met with recommended a 1x4 but that didn't quite seem right to me.

Baseboard size is in part determined by ceiling height, as well as architectural style.

We built our new house ourselves, a process which took four years and was bookended by my husband's cancer surgery and a heart attack, so I well understand the stress and challenges involved, and how many decisions are involved, esp if the homeowner is acting as GC, chief cook, procurer, and bottle washer. But the two comments,

"Oh no!" and

"Slowly I turned..."

seem beyond mild, especially in comparison to what's going on at the moment in Design Dilemma and Plumbing,

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5705742/what-cover-do-i-use#n=33

I continue to be baffled why those with delicate sensibilities continue to crowd source solutions projects on public forums, when some judicious Googling would both protect those sensibilities and turn up items like this, from Marianne Cusato,

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/membership/pdf/194792/021273039Molding.pdf

"Modern farmhouse" is an interior design style popularized by Joanna Gaines/Fixer Upper. And there's a difference between interior design and architecture. Window and door casing, baseboard, and crown moulding are all considered architectural elements, not interior design elements.

I'm grateful to the pros and talented amateurs who stick around in the forums, despite all the determined teasing out of information they have to do. The OP had an inkling that ceiling height might be a factor, but didn't mention but what that ceiling height might be. In fact, we're at 20 comments as I write and Lucy still hasn't shared her ceiling height.

Beckysharp, are you from the midwest? That was so passive aggressive.. CLASSIC midwestern move right there. Point taken - I would receive better advice using Google than hearing from living, breathing humans that have nothing better to do than to snap at uneducated posters on Houzz.

I'm from NYC, and we don't really do passive. I'll have to work on eliminating that : ) .

To me, the term "modern farmhouse" is not objectionable because of the design of the houses it describes but because it represents the misuse of common terms that already have well established meanings. Its much like using French Provincial or Tudor to describe architectural features from entirely different eras and regions.

These things matter to architects not only because they were expected to use them accurately in order to get their degree and license but because they rely on the accurate use of use terms to think about and communicate their ideas daily for their entire professional lives.

A modern farmhouse in architectural terms might be more accurately described as an adaptation of Vernacular, Georgian, Greek Revival, Raised Cottage, Tidewater South, or Craftsman style. Only a house on a farm should be called a farmhouse simply because the design of these houses differ greatly by region and time.

(definition of Vernacular: architecture concerned with domestic and functional rather than public or monumental buildings.)

My house was described in a real estate ad as a "white Victorian" when its actually a good enough example of the Colonial Revival to be identified as such in the 1894 Supplement to Scientific American Magazine.

Simple side-gabled houses with porches and dormers are often described as Capes when the Cape Cod house style is, in fact, defined by the absence of these elements.

So, much of what might be called irrelevant is a simple matter of avoiding contradictions and confusion.

When I offer an opinion to my doctor or lawyer they usually patiently explain the true meaning of the terms I used although they are sometimes dismissive which can be annoying since I'm paying for their advice. Here architects give advice for free so they may be tempted to be dismissive and, of course, their delayed social development is a factor.

I usually just explain the true meaning of terms but the use of the term "custom build" has on occasion caused me to not comment at all.

cpartist - I'm afraid to say this, but it is still on paper. I don't know the style, I said modern farmhouse because we're going to do interior designing loosely following what is out there. We are in the bidding process, and one of the builders we met with recommended a 1x4 but that didn't quite seem right to me.

If you're still on paper, you have time to make it better if you're willing to listen.

And truth is, if you were working with an interior designer and/or an architect, they would spell out for the builder exactly what size moldings, door styles, window styles, and every other of the hundreds of details that are needed. And yes, there are hundreds.

Why is that important? Because a builder will bid out either usual and customary, which may have nothing to do with your vision and then when you request something else, he's going to upcharge you a fortune!

And most builder allowances are too low so once again to get what you want, you'll be paying more, whereas if it's all spec'd out ahead of time, there are no surprises.

For example, even though I mostly designed the house myself, with lots of help crowd sourcing it here on GW and listening to the snarky architects on this forum ;), I knew exactly the molding styles, sizes etc. I drew out detailed drawings to show my builder before we even started building. I did the same for the fireplace wall, the kitchen and its cabinets and even my hatband trim that runs throughout my house. I detailed out exactly the wood panel trim I wanted going up the staircase and how I wanted my master bed within its own niche. On the exterior, I specified exactly the size hardie board I wanted, that I wanted rafter tails showing, the style of my railings, etc.

Before I even started building, I went with the builder's designer to the appliance showrooms, the tile stores, the stone place and the flooring stores to choose things I liked so that when my builder gave me allowances, they were based on what I loosely picked out. In fact, once I saw the prices of some things, I wound up picking less expensive versions and in many cases came in under my allowances.

Now I was able to do all this because I'm an artist and have a design background, but I must say, it became my full time job doing all this. So nothing was nebulous.

If you don't have good design skills, then maybe it's time to hire the professional who can work with you throughout and be your advocate with the builder.

Becky, just because the comments are comparatively “mild” doesn’t make them appropriate, and doesn’t excuse the sad intent behind it, which is anything but helpful. Since you’re a fan of google, try googling “modern farmhouse exterior” and perhaps your vocabulary - or at least imagination - can benefit from realizing that it can be both an interior and exterior style, even if not accepted by the handful of “pros” here amused by the same boring joke.

Kristin, the only thing I see that ties the "modern farmhouse" houses together are they all are white with black windows. It looks like two are done with board and batten and two are done with white painted brick. Otherwise, they still are all different. Especially the one on the lower left.

So once again. Define modern farmhouse.

I can define a craftsman style home. I can define a colonial style home. I can define a Georgian style home. I can define a Queen Anne style home, a Greek Revival style home or a cape cod style home. I really can't define a "modern farmhouse" style home.

I teach a man to fish and I get attacked. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and if anyone wants free advice from me they're going to have to put up with my humor. Good advice is free, great advice is invoiced.

Hopefully anyone reading this thread has benefited from my last comment regarding books and research. At the very least a reader has hopefully benefited from being able to apply what they learned from their sociology and psychology classes that they thought were worthless at the time, in figuring out characters in this play.

The big thing that concerns me here on Houzz is the number of people that post "What do you think of this floor plan?" type discussions as if the house will exist in a vacuum and lived in by vanilla people working at vanilla jobs living vanilla lives. Life is too short to settle for vanilla. Building a home is one of the greatest opportunities to enhance lives.

I thought part of what this forum represented was to help educate. Of course one can just google whatever one wants, but what has one actually learned from the experience?

I came to this forum several years ago because I thought it was interesting, (I've been on GW in general for 9 years now.) I would not have understood what "Modern Farmhouse" meant (I don't watch television, so no HGTV), but I might have thought it was an architectural style, versus a description based on ? My point is that I have learned a lot about architecture from this site, And I'm thankful for that.

I understand that this is easy for me to say because I have been in the same house for 39 years-it was new and built when we bought it. We have done extensive remodeling but I have never built a house so haven't "had" put myself out there (or a house plan) for general consumption.

Most people on here, pros or not, try very hard to not only educate us, but to save those of us - whether building or remodeling- from ourselves.

All of the below are listed online as modern farmhouses. Again, please describe the architectural details that define it as modern farmhouse.

Building a home is one of the greatest opportunities to enhance lives.

This needs to be repeated over and over again!

I'm grateful that this has sparked a good debate rather than attacking each other, like those other noted threads have done. We're all grown ups here, right? :) Thank you all for the time you've taken to explain and educate, it certainly more helpful than Google.

cpartist - so "modern farmhouse" should be noted as a design style rather than architectural style, is what it would seem?

Lucy, yes. I think as mentioned above the term came into being with Joanna Gaines. As you can see by my examples above, there really is nothing in terms of design that ties them all together.

Architectural styles are not updated; they are recycled or revamped with varying attention to scale and appropriateness. Appropriateness is usually determined as what sticks and is repeated by others over decades or centuries. It forms a kind of backdrop for our lives especially the buildings that were built well enough to survive for centuries.

It doesn't take an architectural education for people to absorb architectural ideas; we see buildings every day but it does help to travel and observe. I studied architectural history in college but it wasn't until I drove into Florence alone late at night and saw Santa Maria Novella lit up with flood lights with no sign of life nearby that I finally understood what I had been studying.

Architectural styles are sometimes a further development/adaptation of older styles like Roman from Greek and Renaissance from Roman & Greek. These styles influenced Colonial, Colonial Revival, Classical Revival and the Shingle Style. The Greek Revival style returned to the original Greek temples in response to the discovery and publication of drawings of ancient Greek temples when Americans were supportive of Greece's fight for independence. The Craftsman and Colonial Revival styles were intentional reactions against Victorian styles and the industrial revolution. These architectural developments don't need to be slavishly copied but if you study them carefully you will discover why they developed as they did and to understand why some ideas are awkward or even incompatible together. For instance, It might be inappropriate to combine two ideas that were considered to be contradictory when they were originally popular. I can't list them but you have seen them in McMansions even if you didn't understand the contradictions.

To find new architectural expressions requires much design skill and experience and its not cheap so owners and builders usually resort to the old pattern of combining old ideas in new ways and giving the results new often contradictory names.

Lucy, I messaged you.

I do not have a degree in architecture nor do I have the slightest interest in it.

Since you're at the beginning of your house building adventure, it behooves you to get interested in it.

The more you know, the better your your house, and your building experience, will be. And the more you and your family will enjoy living in the house. And there's a good chance too that you'll do better if it ever comes to resale.

Did you read the Fine Homebuilding article, and did it answer any of your questions?

Becky - I will take a look at it later this evening when I have time to absorb the information. Thank you!

Sorry...I dozed off for awhile...did I miss anything?

Those modern farmhouses have several commonalities that I see at first glance. Examples being (some of which were noted): white exterior, white eaves, black (metal) roofs, black window sashes with minimal white trim, large windows, lots of windows, front porch entry, roof gables with a strong pitch and relatively minimal adornment, and when there are adornments they’re natural (ie cedar), vertical or horizontal siding (or a mix), and usually a board and batten element. The house with the black eaves and stucco in that in one example is clearly an outlier in whatever search you ran. In short, what they have in common is a simple, bright exterior with a focus on getting as much natural light into the interior as possible. I’m sure there are more commonalities, but I really don’t care whether the small contingency of detractors on this forum is willing to accept the term as a style, architectural or otherwise. I just don’t understand why they can’t stay silent if they don’t care to be helpful. It truly boggles the mind. As many others do, I post far fewer inquires than I otherwise would because that small handful is unfortunately the most vocal. As a result, whatever benefit they might provide is certainly counterbalanced by the silencing effect created by a desire to avoid rude and/or unhelpful comments (see Virgil’s last comment as an excellent example).

Virgil, no.

Modern Farmhouse? I think it meets most of your criteria.

white exterior

white eaves

black (metal) roofs

black window sashes with minimal white trim

large windows

lots of windows

front porch entry

roof gables with a strong pitch and relatively minimal adornment

when there are adornments they’re natural (ie cedar)

vertical or horizontal siding (or a mix),

usually a board and batten element.

Those modern farmhouses have several commonalities that I see at first glance. Examples being (some of which were noted): white exterior, white eaves, black (metal) roofs, black window sashes with minimal white trim,

Design elements, not an architectural style.

large windows,

Ok could be architectural if it had a better description of the type of windows and how they relate to the rest of the house.

lots of windows, front porch entry,

Design elements, not an architectural style.

roof gables with a strong pitch and relatively minimal adornment,

Now this describes an architectural element that helps define a type of house.

and when there are adornments they’re natural (ie cedar), vertical or horizontal siding (or a mix), and usually a board and batten element.

Again, design elements, not an architectural style.

The house with the black eaves and stucco in that in one example is clearly an outlier in whatever search you ran.

Why would that be an outlier? I actually left off others that were described as Modern Farmhouse but were definitely outliers. Some were painted in colors, etc.

In short, what they have in common is a simple, bright exterior with a focus on getting as much natural light into the interior as possible.

So does any well designed house. So how does that make it an architectural style.

I’m sure there are more commonalities, but I really don’t care whether the small contingency of detractors on this forum is willing to accept the term as a style, architectural or otherwise. I just don’t understand why they can’t stay silent if they don’t care to be helpful. It truly boggles the mind.

Because it isn't helpful to just throw out terms that really have no meaning. Ideally people come here not only to help their own homes but also to learn and become a bit more educated. I'm sorry if you don't think that's important.

I never called it an architectural style, so there's that...but again, whether you think the term accurately conveys a style or not is irrelevant. The larger issue is that the "inside joke" with respect to the term "modern farmhouse" is deployed in a way that is meant to make people asking innocent questions feel dumb. If you don't have enough info to answer, don't answer. If you want more info, ask for what would be helpful (i.e. "what does that mean to you?" or "post examples of inspiration"). But the snark and bogging down of threads that could be helpful to future users for the amusement of a small few is sad and distracting.

To that end - Lucy, I'm glad the thread ultimately proved at least somewhat useful. I'm going to stop engaging with the anti-"modern farmhouse" contingency to avoid further distraction from the original topic. Good luck in your build!

Hmmm...I think someone woke uo

in a cross mood this morning...

Really?? I didn't notice anything abnormal.