The walled off area is the landing for the stairs that go to the basement. It is one step down from the kitchen. The ceiling above that landing is a different height than the rest of the kitchen because the stairs that go upstairs are above it. The pantry area is an addition that was put on 30 years ago or so to get the laundry up to the main level. House was built in the 1940's.

The current kitchen is walled off where I have shown an island, and the fridge is on that wall.

We have also considered putting the dishwasher in the end of the island facing the pantry area.

NONE of that. Post a plain measured diagram of the existing space.

None of these work. Read the thread about posting for layout help. In addition to a layout with dimensions, you need to fill the forum in on family in the home, how much you cook and entertain, etc.

Thanks for the responses - I'll check out that thread about asking for layout help, and post a plan view of the existing space after work today.

It's hard to tell without measurements.......don't put the fridge next to the stove, but I agree that the DW is a tight squeeze to the island. However, given the options, that's where I would put it in order to keep the fridge and stove in those locations. I too have small aisles and when my dishwasher is open it's a bit of an obstacle to walk around, but my solution is just not to leave it open -- load it all at once then shut the door. It was a better trade off than moving it away from my sink, and I don't regret it for a moment. So, I'd choose option 1, even though I don't know what's to the left of the landing to the stairs or what the actual sizes of your aisles are.

FAQs: New to Kitchen forum? Read me first!

Because that thread thread has more than 500 comments (mostly bumping to keep it on the first page), the first few comments/posts which are important and part of the FAQs will be hidden. These are the most important posts as they are the "meat" of this thread -- the topics. To see the topics and help referred, click on the "See XX more comments" link.

Also very good and very important,

Looking for layout help? Memorize this first: Ice. Water. Stone. Fire.

Current layout to be posted later today. There are some dimensions shown on the first image but I can see they are quite small when viewed on this forum post.

Q: Do you like to cook?

A: Yes, we cook a lot. We cooked through a cookbook last year with 490 recipes in the current layout.

Q: Do you entertain a lot?

We host a couple at least once a week. We sometimes host two or three times a week. Always informal, and always with cooking. I would like the space to suit hosting 2 couples. We sometimes host a lot more than that but then we are pushing furniture out of the way and bringing out folding chairs etc. I don’t expect the space to suit that type of hosting without being a bit of a free for all.

Q: What are your goals?

A: Open up the space. Add an island. Cooking through those recipes last year and given the amount of times we hosted, it would have been nice if people were hanging out at an island while we were doing prep. We could have had apps laid out on the island with wine etc.

Q: How do you see your kitchen being used?

A: A main hang out spot for the house. One or two cooks in the kitchen and people sitting at the island hanging out.

Q: What is your family composition?

A: Married couple, early 30’s, a 1 year old and one on the way. Both of us cook.

Q: Do you have a separate DR?

A: There is a dining room that is currently open with the living room.

There is an unfinished basement under kitchen.

We were thinking the current location of the patio door and window would stay as is. We have verified with a structural engineer that the walls dividing up the space can be removed and replaced with a recessed beam.

Appliances:

Stove: Bertazzoni 30” master range with a true ventilation hood

Fridge: Bosch 800 24” counter depth built in fridge, or a Liebherr 24” built-in fridge-only with a freezer in the pantry.
Dishwasher: Bosch 300 24” wide
Microwave: none.

Is there anything you:

Cannot live without?
Probably the island idea. It’s the main reason for doing this.

Emily, your answers show me that you and your family are serious cooks who need a high-functioning kitchen. A poll isn't the answer. If you could post both of your designs in better quality and as large as possible, and also a layout of the existing kitchen with measurements, that would be the ideal way to move forward and let the talented people here help you get the best kitchen.

Hello everyone,

Please see below for the existing layout. Some of the dimensions were added in by the program and they are a bit hard to see - hopefully you guys can make it out. The pantry has a washer and dryer and also a metal shelving unit from Ikea that holds most of our dry goods and our small appliances like food processor, mixer, etc. Beside the fridge is a pantry-style shelving unit.

After doing a ton of cooking in this kitchen, I would rate the layout as a 2/10, maybe brought up to a 3/10 with the open pantry. We plan to keep on cooking and entertaining, and I just hope to bring this up a few notches - I'm not expecting a 10/10 dream here. But I want it to be the best in can be, for sure.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that the pantry / laundry addition is a little bit shoddy in terms of construction. We consider it a bonus room. Unfortunately we can't consider this additional space that we can open up to the kitchen.

I'm going to try to post all of Emily's plans, but bigger and turned around:

Emily's plan with measurements:

Proposed plan with dishwasher by sink,

Proposed plan with refrigerator by stove,

Thanks Becky. I have reposted the large original versions below.

Could the wall to the pantry be taken down to make your kitchen larger? I feel you probably need more counter space versus such a large pantry space.

Plus your fridge can't be against the wall like you have it. It will never open.

As for the last plan, I can tell you that having to turn sideways every single time to load the dishwasher gets old very quickly. And you can't have a stove next to the fridge.

Also what is the aisle space between the island and the perimeter cabinets? Once you know that number, take off 3" since measurements are counter to counter, not cabinet to cabinet.

Hi cpartist,

The wall between the kitchen and pantry won’t be coming down - I explain a little bit above. The construction of the addition isn’t good enough to consider using as part of our kitchen - we consider it a bonus room.

For the last plan, that dishwasher location is where the dishwasher is currently located. I haven’t had any issues with this location so I’m perfectly fine if the dishwasher stays here.

For the plan with the fridge against the wall - it should open okay. Did you see the current plan? Fridge is against the wall in the current layout.

I know you aren’t really supposed to have the fridge by the stove (although I grew up with an L-shaped kitchen with the fridge by the stove), but on the bright side it would be such a massive improvement over the current setup. I do have room for a small cabinet between the stove and fridge.

For the proposed layout with the fridge by the stove, we do have room to add a 9" cabinet between the appliances.

Just wondering if someone may have some other ideas now that the current layout has been posted (it is the computer generated layout posted above).

I'd skip the island and open up the wall between the dining room and kitchen.

If you can remove the vestibule wall, you could move the range over to the wall backing up to the pantry.

Do shallow tall cabs open to the sides on either side of the fridge. put the dishwasher to the left of the sink. Much more counter space.

Lots of people like to sit at dining room tables and you are open to that room and very close by.

Karen,

Thank you for your thoughts, I will consider this.

I was hoping mama goose and Mrs. Pete would stop in with their ideas...

I've thought about the layout without an island and I don't think I'd go ahead with the renovation unless the space will be totally opened up. My preference would definitely be one of my proposed layouts with an island. In my opinion the range and hood centered on the island would be a really nice focal point for the whole main level.

Any additional ideas (including ideas that don't include an island) are more than welcome.