Yes. Roundup CAN. Was the area treated with Roundup?

Not Roundup - a soil drench/inject to treat/pretreat for termites. Has that ever come up for anybody before?

Now that I'm thinking, 'Graham Thomas' and 'Royal Jubilee' would have gotten just as much of whatever it was, and they aren't showing this growth. Well, they haven't so far.

I do keep a bit of Roundup in the garage (for poison ivy) - but the only way TP could have been exposed was if there was a serious leak that I didn't see and it somehow got through the slab (and there are cracks). I doubt that's what has happened, but what will it hurt to check?

Thank you for the nice compliments.

I know it is driving you nuts but looks like you will have to wait until Tuesday before you can submit your samples and see what is going on. I do know that I will see witches brooms on some new growth of my roses, especially if I over fertilized them. It freaks me out initially but I have learned to watch it and see if it "looks normal" after a few days/weeks. So far the new growth comes out fine in the long run. I find some varieties of DA roses seem to do this. Specifically my P A of K and also Ralph Moore's Wedding Cake. My other roses don't seem to have this trait. Just a good reminder to me of not to get to zealous with the fertilizers and amendments.

I lost Lady Ashe one year and replaced her with Alchemist the following year. On the other hand, I had a grouping of Princess Alexandra of Kent and lost one to RRD and got the hint that I needed to thin out the grouping and did not replace it. Alchemist and the remaining PAoK have been just fine. I wouldn’t replant a rose in that spot this year but you should be fine planning on replacing it next year. What is the site like? Is it against a wall? Other plantings next to it?

Vaporvac - I lost 6 potted roses last year to RRD (3 in spring, 3 early fall), one being Fragonard which I cannot replace. I was concerned that the crowded conditions in the unheated garage contributed to this loss and so I first sprayed dormant spray and miticide before it was too cold. Right before it was time to move them inside and they were dormant, I defoliated all of them (that was a chore). They all stayed dormant and they have all been healthy this spring (knock on wood).

Dave, it is against a wall, (edited to say a north-facing wall) and TP is the only rose on it. My rose 'beds' are groupings though - 3 smallish roses (floris/grand/small HT) and one/two climbers on an obelisk - I'll have to watch them. It's good to hear replacing is an option, even if it is a year later. At this point I'm not sure I'll even get anything ordered from Roses Unlimited this year. More rain over the last two days, and more predicted. I don't know when we'll finally dry out. I'm thankful my livelihood isn't dependent on planting, because it looks bad for our farmers this year.

Mustbnuts, I got a few more pics this morning, before and after cutting the growth. I'll have to post them from my tablet though. I'll have to check it against the other photos, but it almost seemed like it was greening up. Still weird, but not as red.

Thank you Dave for that info. I also spray a dormant oil, but in the spring and had not considered a Fall defoliation or a miticide. Good idea since they are not in the open. Lime/sulphur spray is a quick way to defoliate which I learned from the Zimmerman articles.

Ac91, I might consider something else for that wall if the prevailing winds blow into it. A couple of years ago there was a poster battling RRD in just one area. It turns out it was a slightly enclosed wall on the back of her house where the wind blew down from open fields. There was no prior wind break so that wall acted as one and dropped all the mites directly on those roses. She never had it anywhere else. Perhaps you could determine which way the wind generally blows in that area.

Since Houzz no longer wants to work with my tablet, I finally had to save these on the computer to post! The odd growth got cut off, and is now double bagged in my fridge.

Before cutting: Here's that main cane of weird growth. Seems less red?

Here's that second growth. Note how it's passed that second branch behind it.

Here's 'The Pilgrim' for now, who knows how much longer

Nine buds, and a boatload of creeping Charlie & violets. Nothing like a picture to make you realize you need to scrub your siding, ack!

Don't panic yet! Just try to breathe until the experts have a say. Deep breaths.... If the time comes, we're here for you when you feel a primal scream moment coming on. Hey, at least you nailed the #%^@%! termites! D@$mn house eaters. Carol

Yeah. Looks like it's greening up. That seems to me to be a good sign?

I hope so Jerijen! It's aberrant, but not excessive. The one growth that was excessive wasn't aberrant. And we have had boatloads, or should I say levee-loads, of rain. I'd say a majority of the fields here haven't been planted, and many that have been planted either have standing water now or have already drowned/washed out.

Carol, they were in the island bed closest to my neighbor's garage, which almost made me sick - the risk to my house was frustrating, but the possibility I'd damaged someone else's stuff was gut-wrenching. Pest control guy checked it (and her basement! For free, hooray!) and there wasn't any damage, so I must have caught the house eaters early. I think it's put me off using wood mulch lol!

I just hope the experts can use what I've already cut off, and I don't have to wait for more odd growth to send. Waiting is always the hard part.

Here's a happier, if not good quality, pic from this morning. This is actually the bed the termites were in. Thank goodness I tried to plant that salvia where I did!

You can see the ever present weeds (I can blame the rain this year!). Farthest left is 'Molineux' - two gallon sized from ARE, died to the ground this winter! The middle is 'Quietness' - those blooms were still tight buds yesterday! And I can't remember exactly which yellow that is on the right. I've got all the names, and most have their tags, I just have several yellows and a bad memory.

The big leaves on the obelisk aren't weeds - they're runner beans! I'll have something on my towers while my climbers get big enough to put on a show.

An update: The extension office agent was back today, and I took the cut pieces to her. She specifically mentioned RRD, and did say it has already been confirmed in my county. Not really great news, but it's nice to know that our extension office is aware of this issue. We couldn't send it to the lab today, but she took some pics to send to them in the chance they're confident enough to ID it off pics alone. If it does go to the lab, it will be next week as she didn't want the specimens sitting in a mailbox or hot truck over the weekend.

No more weird growths on 'The Pilgrim' so far, and his spring flush (which may sadly be his last) is starting. I'll try to post the pics I got before work today.

Thank you for the update! In spirit, I'm hanging out with you in the pins and needles waiting room. Carol

Thanks for the update. Fingers are still X'd, here.

Hopeful that you will receive positive news.

I witnessed similar growth on my established Sweet Francis rose this year. This was following heavy (Houston) rainfall.

It turned out to be fine.

Good luck.

Wish you good luck ! I hope for good news :)

jin

I am hopeful as well, since I don't see the exess of thorns that usually accompanies the growth. I hope I am right, but I don't think you have RRD. Fingers crossed, toes too.

Thank you guys! I hate the waiting, but I've at least made peace with the idea of removing 'The Pilgrim'. I've got two towers I could put a new TP on, but I don't think I'll put a rose back where this one was if I end up having to remove him.

I'll be gone for a few days next week, so I'll have to ask my sister if she can check him for any 'weird new growth'. Still nothing odd as of today. I'll try (again) to post the pics I took last night of his blooms. I'm at least going to get these spring blooms from him!

That's the spirit, ac91z6! Gardening is a lesson in patience and resilience...times infinity. I hope your trip next week goes well! Your forum friends will keep the edge of the seat warm for you. :-) Carol

Here's "The Pilgrim" yesterday! I finally got it to post.

Wow - it looks perfect! Forgive my confusion, but is this the same plant that had all the red growth/ suspected RRD?

I'd say, it looks pretty danged healthy, now.

This is the rose that the weird growth was on. You'd never think he threw that weird growth from this pic. The sawflies chewed on some of his leaves, but right now he looks good.

No weird growth this morning either. That first bloom has already shattered, but our weather has taken a turn for hot. Well, upper 80s won't feel bad come August but it feels hot now! My yard will need mowing while I'm gone, so I will def. ask my sister to check him those days.

Watch and wait. And cut blooms tomorrow morning so I can actually enjoy them while I'm at work this weekend!

I hooe you are in the clear.

I noticed weird growth on my Mystic Beauty for over two growing seasons (I did not recognize it as suscpicious the First year). The second year (last summer) I took a more conservative approach and cut off the RRD (by this time it was obvious) growth hoping she might survive, but eventually over the season the healthy canes started to grow new RRD type growth so early this spring I took it out. But I am so lucky it did not spread (at least not yet--we shall see) to the other roses.

Maybe you should try to spray the suspicious roses and their neighbors with water to minimize any chance of transmission by mites.

This is wonderful, ac91z6! Perhaps TP was responding to all the rain we’ve been receiving or something else but glad to hear concerning growth looks normal now.

I think the pictures keep getting better and better. The one thing that has kept me hopeful this time has been the lack of thorns on the red shoots. Still keeping fingers crossed that all will be OK.

What a relief to see it bloom. I am so happy for you that everything works out well. Enjoy your blooms and it is great to see it blooming and so green :)
Hurray !!!

jin

Thanks guys! This week what I cut off goes to the university extension lab, so I'll find out definitively soon. Still no weird new growth this morning though! Totoro, we've had a fair amount of rain after I cut that growth (got a shower yesterday actually) - do you think it would still be worth it to spray the three roses in that area? The other two are just around a corner. Let's see if I can approximate a schematic:

garage] X (West Side)

garage] X

X (The Pilgrim)

(North Side)

The garage is one car, and all in one piece since that isn't a very good illustration!

One not-great update; turns out our university lab doesn't test for RRD, so the extension agent is looking farther afield. At some point it's going to be too expensive; $30 to $40 would buy me a whole new rose! Or a replacement shrub of some sort.

Better news: No new growth on 'The Pilgrim', so nothing weird or distorted.

Slightly concerning, there's some odd growth on a couple of my Kordes roses on the north side:

'Poseidon'

Not too weird though

Sorry for the quality; I was being eaten by mosquitoes trying to take these

This is a different rose; I'm pretty sure it's 'Fire and Ice' (or 'Fire'n'Ice'?)

Nothing has that thick reddish stem; all are green and smaller than the stem they grew out of (yay!) Those thorns look odd to my eyes; should I mix up some Spinosad and give these beds a spray-down? I should have earlier, but work was so nuts I didn't even have time to pack for my vacation until the night before. And I won't be able to spray anything until Monday (I hate that I work weekends sometimes).

This is my first spring with these two roses, so this may be completely normal new growth for them; I just don't have any experience to compare them to.

How quickly does RRD throw new, distorted growth on infected roses? I'm wondering if multi-flora got it's rep because it grows so much it's easy to see the symptoms.

Although I don’t grow Poseidon, I have other Kordes roses and most of them are quite vigorous. So I would say this is just healthy new growth. I understand your concern. It is a shame that we have to look askance at what is often just a happy rose.

I have been following to see what your extension office tells you. Good luck.

Hope you don’t mind a late comment on your post. First on the multiflora I think your correct in a way. Multiflora is so invasive, makes millions of seeds and grows like crazy. When it becomes infected from an rrv infected mite. It literally grows faster than the disease can kill it. Than remains as an infected source for new mites to feed on.

I live by my new rule that has served me well in the last ten years or so. When in doubt cut it out. My rose don’t mind dealing with a lost cane and I have not lost a rose since. I also no longer grow big huge roses that are difficult to see into.

I believe that Ann had said that getting a rose tested was not a simple adventure. Once the rose sample was cut it needed to be packed in dry ice and mailed immediately. It is so unfortunate that testing is so difficult. I would so love to know positively what this is as we have seen a lot of it. There are many other rose viruses out there that I know nothing about.

I have had some very odd growth on some of my roses in the past few years. I’ve had broccoli growth that grew a few inches. Then stayed that way. Horrible red, rubbery, leaves looked like feathers. Eventually I picked it off and the rose was fine that year. It did not survive the winter. I have five of that rose ‘South Africa’. That was the only one that died. Plum Perfect has done the same. I beginning to be suspicious of tissue culture. That is a whole other story thou.

Even if your rose was infected you have done your best In cutting the growth out. It is entirely possible that the rose had not yet transported the rrv down to the roots. It need to do that before the rest of the Rose becomes infected.

On some of your other roses. I can not see enough of the older growth to tell what is normal for those roses. If it where me I would check the place where the leaf connects with the stem. Forgive me you guys but the brain is slipping. What is the name of that little appendage. Any way it looks as thou this may have changed shape. That would not be good.

I'll try to get some better pics tomorrow (late) morning; the skeeters shouldn't be too bad by then. Patty, are you thinking 'stipule'? I'm not that good at rose anatomy, I'm afraid. I agree on the testing - someone posted an article about where current research on RRD stands, and they specifically talked about getting a more reliable, widely available test. Here's hoping they're close!

I won't be able to do anything besides take a few pics until Monday. I'll check the older growth too - some roses do have 'prickles' on the leaves, unknown if these usually do.

Well, if it ends up being nothing I'll have good documentation of these roses' growth habits. Worst case happens, and at least the next person has got something to help them ID.

If 'The Pilgrim' doesn't survive this winter, I've made peace with putting other shrubs in that spot. Wait and see, wait and see. Blaurg, I hate this part!

The temptation to buy some perennials in consolation is increasing.

Ah yes stipule is the name thanks. Gosh I sure wish I had an answer for you. In the past I for one would have said rrd for sure. But none of these plants have been tested. Then photos taken so that we know. There is a lot wrong in your first two photos. But it is not text book rrd which is hideously ugly. It is indeed confusing.

I found this pic in the 'spring is here seasonal thread pt 7' - it's 'Milwawkee Calatrava', but you can see the prickles on the underside of the leaves, just like mine are doing in those pics!

https://www.houzz.com/photos/phvw-vp~143882374

Can't check the old leaves until tomorrow, I'm really starting to hate long shifts lol!

Ghislaine de Feligond and Bubble Bath have those prickles on undersides. I think some roses just do. It would be useful to compare to some pics on HMF perhaps.

Here's one from 'Ruby Ice' (not 'Fire whatever', I just can't remember anything!) showing prickles on the petiole/rachis

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.217784

For 'Poseidon', this really looks like the new growth I'm seeing

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.305596

All hail Jedmar, who brings us the patent photos will all their glorious information! HMF needs to give him an award.

Some prickles on the bud stems

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.300621 and this is from Europe so it can't be RRD (not that it looks like it anyway)

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.236837 no prickles that I can see, and this might be the best pic I find... yeah it was.

Note to self, post/upload pics of whole plant, canes, entire compound leaves, individual leaves, AND the backs of leaves!

I'm less worried about these two now, thanks Vaporvac! Still going to get all those pics tomorrow, and of course another check on 'The Pilgrim'. I don't think I'll really be happy unless he survives this winter and is clear next spring!

Terrible pics, but you can just make out the prickles on 'Ruby Ice' here

This is even worse on 'Poseidon', but you can see a prickle there on the petiole/rachi

And here's another bad pick of 'Poseidon', overall new growth

I'll keep checking these two, (and all of them on that row, really) but I'm more confident that they're ok.

No weird growth on 'The Pilgrim' this morning either.

Everything looks good, congratulations.

I agree - all looks like healthy new growth.

All's well that ends well. :-)

No weird growth on any roses as of today! 'Ruby Ice' is pumping out blooms and has tons of buds, but I didn't get a decent pic - it's hard to photograph with the white undersides when you've got any kind of direct sun!

Here's some happy pictures:

'Tupelo Honey' - I am THRILLED with rose! First year, fragrance is light but look at all these blooms and buds!

That's Nepeta Cat's Meow' beside it

Here's a bad pic of 'Florentina' - I moved her this spring and she's decided to give me four blooms! I got her from ARE last year (so she was a 2-gal plant) and she never even tried to bloom until now. She's a bit darker in real life; very red, no pink tones.

Could it be? Could 'Quicksilver', planted on the other side of the house, FINALLY be giving me more than one bloom a year? This is his third year in the ground; I'm going to get some fence posts from the local farm store's sale this weekend and get him a better trellis than a couple short bamboo sticks.

My Florentina didn't bloom its first year either. Some of these Kordes' roses seem to take their sweet time, but make up for it later. : ))

New growth! this was yesterday, noticed after near-daily checking in mostly the evening or a quick once-over the main structure (not the base of the main cane, where this is). This growth could be a week to two weeks old, but I wouldn't put it much past that.

This was yesterday, noticed while on Japanese Beetle patrol:

From this morning:

I guess I'm going to find out, sooner than expected, if 'The Pilgrim' stays or goes to that rose garden in the sky.

Did you/the extension agent ever find a lab to send your specimens to for testing, ac91?

Nothing within a reasonable distance, and the specimens have to shipped, in dry ice, within a certain amount of time after cutting and then get to the lab within so much time.

Someone, Henry I think, posted a link to an article that said a more reliable 'field' test was one of the projects in the works by some of the RRD research groups. Even if it's something we have to send to a university with an ag science program and lab, it would be a big improvement!

No pics today as I barely had time for an incomplete beetle patrol before work. Does anyone else notice the buggers seem to move faster in the mornings?

Ah... well, it's good to know there's that other option, should there be any more unusual stuff happening on this (or future) new growth... But, fingers crossed still that it was just an odd phenomenon brought on by that unusual combination of weather conditions...

It may be quite unrelated scientifically, but I suppose when I commented earlier that it might be OK, I was remembering about how proliferation, another unusual mutation (?)/growth pattern, can be triggered by a sudden cold snap after generally warmer weather - along with other possible co-factors like a lot of rain (maybe) in an area with an overabundance of old nitrogenous chook manure...

Here he was, July 1 - that first growth is exuberant, but not odd; you can see something starting on the right:

I had to work the holiday and it was nuts, so no pics until July 8, the following Monday. However, by Friday the 5th I could tell -

The new growth was really exuberant

Look at that awful growth on the top left, the fringe-y leaves on that new basal.

Really exuberant new growth; I've never seen a rose throw so many new starts and grow so fast.

He was dug out after these pics were taken: I've got most of the roots out too. How aggressive do you guys get with root removal? I've got two anchor roots left, smaller than my pinky, that extended out farther than the hole which is about a foot and a half in diameter. Do I need to keep digging and make a bigger mess of a hole, or can those be left? I don't think I'll be putting another rose back in this spot; I'm leaning towards a small, pyramidal evergreen or a bushy winterberry or red-twig dogwood.

I’ve never dug all the roots just the biggest ones that I could find. Never had a problem with them yet. Thank you for the update and photos. I think it is helpful for people to see rrd when it’s Just beginning to show. Most online photos are great but tend show the virus when its advanced. So sorry about your rose.

I’m sorry, ac91z6 :( You did the right thing removing it. Just do the best you can with the roots - I know some can be difficult to remove.

Thanks guys. Glad to hear I don't need to chase those roots too far - I'll dig a bit more, and see what I can pull. I've made my peace with having to pull him out, and I've already got a spot for another 'The Pilgrim' next year.

Still tempting to spray curse words in herbicide on the yard of whatever official ok'd the start of this plague, but I'll save the money I'd spend on that (and bail, and lawyers) for more plants.

Ac91 , you did the right thing by removing the rose . It can happen to anyone and I love what you want to plant in it's spot. You are ahead with your plans.

Along with your rose also went stress , aggravation, disappointments and not forgetting...hehehe your curse words ( you're funny ). Tomorrow it will be a new day. Enjoy your weekend :)

jin