Miele dishwashers are good with glass and crystal, and some models have a specific glass cycle that uses lower temperatures. My mom washes her Riedel wine glasses in hers without problem. You would have to co firm in the manual whether they can go in the bottom rack as well as the top, but that would be a good starting place.

Miele washers also don't have a heated dry cycle. They instead rely on residual heat. And the higher-end models automatically open the door at the end of the cycle. That helps a lot with drying.

Lack of a heated dry cycle is awesome. It is a lot more gentle on the items that you wash. And it means that there really isn't a temperature difference between top and bottom shelf. You can safely wash plastic items on the bottom shelf. And if plastic is safe, then drinking glasses should absolutely be fine.

The downside is that plastic items don't dry as well. Everything else is perfectly dry. But plastic containers have small amounts of residual water that you might have to wipe of. In most cases, it's pretty minimal though. I usually don't even bother wiping, as it's just so little. But that depends on your plastic object. Some have a little more residual water.

The other nice thing about Miele is that some of their dishwashers have a built-in water softener. Hard water is one of the things that can really do damage to nice glasses.

Miele with the perfect glass care feature. Their racks are designed to hold stemware. I wash all my leaded non cut stemware on the crystal/China cycle. Both middle and bottom racks work great

Thermador has a dishwasher designed especially for glassware. Don’t know much about it other than that it exists https://www.thermador.com/us/search?search=glass+care+center&pageNumber=1

As much as I love my Miele DW, for just glassware, I'd probably look at 2 dishdrawers, just for the spacing for wine glasses.

Miele makes commercial dishwashers that are optimized for stemware. If you have a winery and need to wash hundreds of wine glasses every day, that's probably ideal. But commercial dishwashers tend to make trade-offs that aren't ideal for residential settings. So, I wouldn't recommend buying that model for your bar area.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, neither the baskets nor the racks from the commercial models fit residential dishwasher models.

But Miele does make inserts that help with organizing stemware. Look for GGO and GGU. They go into the regular baskets that come with your Miele dishwasher. I don't think you can convert a basket to only hold tall stemware. But maybe you don't actually need that?

Maybe give Miele a call and ask them about how many GGO/GGU can be fit into any one dishwasher and what the total number of glasses is that can be washed easily. According to a marketing blitz from a couple of years ago, Miele is the only brand recommended by Riedel for their glassware. Of course, take that for what it is: marketing speak.

Looks like its Miele or Thermador. I have a Miele in my current home for regular kitchen use and its does not fit wine glasses very easily - Of course I don't have any inserts you guys are talking about and also this is only for just a few wine stems. When we do have a party - we hand wash most all wine glasses since enough don't fit and they take too much space when we angle them.

None of our wine glasses are super expensive!! And this is for a second home-so when we have parties here - want the dinnerware and wine glasses in separate dishwashers!

I have to look at Miele, Thermador. I only conidered Fisher Pykal and Bosch based on the sale guys direction. Will go with a few wine glasses and figure it out.

Thanks!

If there is a Miele Experience Center in your part of the country, it might be worth your while to give them a call. If you ask nicely, they can probably order the GGU and GGO and set up one of their dishwashers for use with stemware. You could then bring your own glasses and see if they fit.

I find that the Experience Centers are an amazing resource. Much better than any other sales information I have ever received from other manufacturers. Unfortunately, there are only very few of those scattered throughout the US.

I have a FP dish drawer in an upstairs bonus/game room for misc glasses/pet bowl/overflow from the kitchen etc. I have been somewhat underwhelmed. It works fine but really dirty pots/pans dont alwaya come clean as in my Miele. Not sure how well it would handle stemware. Not sure what Miele you have currently - mine is a 2015 Lumen (new model at the time) - below are some pics. I can get 3 rows of stemware (including very tall leaded stems) in the bottom and two in the middle. The 3rd rack can slide opening up the right or left side for taller stems. Stemless/misc barware can fit in the open spaces.

Bottom Rack with tall stems - (the new models have better stem holders)

Middle Rack - first is tall stems with the cutlery rack open on the right:

The lights put off a glare so hard to see - you can get 5 rows of stems in at least one load. Not sure what your main DW will be but if a similarly Miele - it could also handle some stems if need be.

The othe DW which is brand new on the market is the SZ/Wolf Cove. Have not seen it but they put a lot of thought into how it loads. Anxious to see some reviews. Hope this helps!

I have decided on the Miele G6745 (Dimension) before COVID. I have tested it with wine glasses. Now after a few months when we are ready to order - the Miele G6745 is discontinued so my appliance guy suggested the one level down G6625 or one level up the G6835. I need two dishwashers - maybe I should buy one of each! Any one have any experience with either the 6625 or the 6835. I plan to stick with the Miele brand.

Those two seem to be very different models:

The G6835 is much more expensive, but it also seems a much more versatile model. It has a more intelligible user interface, it has a lot of extra energy- and water-saving features, it has more flexible washing modes and more adjustable interior, in particular it has better glass holders, and on top of all of that, it is quieter. Also, I personally have grown really fond of the LED lights. It's really such a small feature, but I appreciate it every single night when cleaning up for the day.

If money didn't matter, I don't think it's a question and the G6835 is a clear winner over the G6625. On the other hand, the price difference is huge! There must be candidates in between these two extremes.

I don't know whether it's still available (the Thermador website says it's discontinued but AJ Madison's website still lists it) but this extremely expensive Thermador DHWD771 "Glass Care Center" dishwasher was designed to accommodate lots of glasses on both the upper and lower racks.

Thanks! I have a Miele at home so sticking with that company for the dishwasher. I don't mind the cost - I just wanted something similar or better to the G6745 (which they have discontinued!!)

@M I did the same side by side comparison 6745, 6625, 6835 (6745 was what I wanted) - so was trying to see if the 6625 will fit the bill - I don't mind spending more but looks like now availability is the issue! 6625 is one below and 6835 is one above model wise.

I just got off the phone with Miele and looks like the 6835 might be discontinued too!!! - so have to call each individual dealer to see who has it on stock!

Their new ones will come out in September and we cannot wait that long! and I do not want to restart my research!!!

Whatever dishwasher you zero in on I would be sure to take a few of your wine glasses to the showroom to see how they fit. I assumed with all the bells and whistles on our Bosch our stemmed glasses would fit but they fall all over the place in there.

Ron Natalie, KA quit selling drawer dishwashers on the US market years ago, 1st-generation KA drawer units were rebadged F&P but 2nd-generation was not.

Also to say, my F&P is 16+yo. The only problem of critical nature that has come up is the drain hoses cracked. I DIYed the repair.

Update: Since my original pick 6745 has been discontinued - I have a choice to make between the 6625, 6875 and the 6885.

The 6625 is less features with the flat handle built into the face of the dishwasher (which I like) and I was going with all stainless steel appliances to get a break in the cabinetry.

The 6885 has more features but has to have a panel either a stainless steel panel or a cabinet wood panel. This dishwasher opens either with a knock on the door or you can still pull down the door open with your hand. However to pull the door down with your hand you need a space between the dishwasher top and the granite bottom edge. We will have a two inch edge - so there won't be space - which means - I need a handle on the door of a cabinet panel - since the stainless steel is just a flat panel without any handle (not sure I like the look of a plain stainless steel without anything (like a mirror)

The 6875 has more features too and comes with the stainless steel handle built into it. I like the stainless steel part but don't like the protruding handle part.

Decisions, Decisions , Decisions!!!

Interesting topic. When we redid our bar area, we thought about a dishwasher too, but opted out. However when we we’re heavily considering it, we were going to go with the drawer type with custom front to match surrounding cabinets. Never really thought much about brand, other than to get an extended warranty on any brand we got, lol (we’ve had horrible luck with most of the brands over the years, in different houses).

"rureadyinla: ... we were going to go with the drawer type with custom front to match surrounding cabinets. Never really thought much about brand, ..."

The only brand choice for a drawer-type dishwasher is Fisher & Paykel, so there's not much thinking that *can* be involved.

If I were to wash wine and beer glassware in a dedicated dishwasher, I would supply the dishwasher with reverse osmosis water, and avoid use of any rinse aid. The glasses would dry spotless, and there wouldn't be any chemical coating that affects taste or beer head formation. Even if I were to take them out wet and hang them by the stems, they would dry spotless.

I vote for a dishwasher that is multifunctional. I know you envision using the 2nd dishwasher just for glassware, but you may find it useful when you have greater dirty dish volume— guests, holidays, etc. it’s easier to keep the kitchen looking good when you can load the second while the first is running.

Reverse osmosis changes the water chemistry. And there have been reports in the past of appliances getting damaged by RO water unless you add minerals back. In fact, several people quoted user manuals that state the warranty was void when the appliance was used with RO water. So, before going down this road, I'd carefully investigate if the appliance was compatible with reverse osmosis.

On the other hand, ion exchange resins should be safe to use. And in fact, various higher end dishwashers have built in ion exchangers.

The idea was to have nothing left in the water to white spot the drying glasses and to avoid a coating of rise aid, such as I can taste if I drink pure water from a glass without rinsing it first. (Miele Optima vs. Finish Quantum Powerball)

M is correct, however, that compatibility between one's RO system's output and the dishwasher manufacturer's design is necessary. Some source waters, when subjected to reverse osmosis filtering, end up acidic, and this can have corrosive effects on metals such as brass. (See legal history of the war against some PEX fittings manufacturers due to Chinese brass fitting failures in walls when subjected to certain area's water supplies.) However, I don't have a spare dishwasher for glasses only, so I have never looked into dishwasher pH limits, or other possible chemical effects of operating with pure water. I suppose this would be an issue with rainwater storage water supplies also.

As it happens in my case, the Government-mandated alkalizing of my town's water source, when subjected to my RO system, leaves a still slightly alkaline result. Faucets used with my RO distribution have remained un-corroded, and my SZ icemaker continues to churn out ice without complaint. And hand washed wine glasses, rinsed in RO water and hung, dry totally clear. I expect that my particular RO feed would not harm a Miele more than the unfiltered water does. One's RO system has to be pressurized to normal residential levels into a pressure tank for use with appliances such as a dishwasher.

Very helpful commentary thread. I’m trying to pull the trigger on a Bosch 800 series, and at this point, I’d make anything work! Bosch seems to be backordered from any appliance seller until anywhere from late FEB to MAY? Pivoted to the Fisher-Paykel drawers...love the idea of the deep drawer and ability to load wine glasses and maybe a few plates (empty nesters!). A bit “scared” of the F-P due to some of the commentary here and on review sites and not spending the $$$ for the KA drawer version. Now, Miele...have one currently, a workhorse over the years but it’s been serviced and serviced and now is finally out of service. Even the quick cycle takes about 90 minutes but still dries like a champ. I just don’t want to spend 2K on the Miele model I think I want. Advice, thoughts, appreciated. PS. Currently in kitchen renovation phase so was planning on new dishwasher to be installed along with countertops, etc in early To mid-Jan. Don’t want to wait until late Feb or beyond for my new dishwasher. 😒

@Patt C

What KA (KitchenAid?) drawer version are you referencing? Can you provide a link to it?

@dadoes see below. The Kitchen Aid site plus if you go to Build.com you’ll see a few $2000+ choices.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjG1pPaxObtAhUCvIYKHRCRD3UYABAGGgJ2dQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESP-D2ZTXmW5cVQSsiOQrkh33Ftpwz_uKBMtyDq6XD1_uajRyhsevl6Ux-BECgV5e873ZhOFvBPaBSfslGsyDb5w&sig=AOD64_0LvoROdtxJ8AXPJD-gUznt_-1WVQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjLo4zaxObtAhUF1VkKHdy6D2wQ5bgDegQIExBD&adurl=

PS. @Dadoes, The Kitchen Aid drawers closer to $3K...😲

@Patt C,

KitchenAid discontinued drawer dishwashers on the U.S. market some years ago, as I say above in posts on June 11, 2020 at 9:33AM and July 25, 2020 at 6:36PM.

There are no KA drawer dishwashers shown on either KitchenAid.com or
Build.com ... unless you're finding something that I'm not seeing.

The KA drawer units via KitchenAid on Build.com are refrigerator/freezer drawers not dishwashers.

KUDF204E - $2,694.10 stainless, $2,899.00 panel-ready is a refrigerator drawer (top) and freezer drawer (lower).

KUDR204E - $2,799.00 panel-ready, $2,899.00 stainless is a double refrigerator drawer unit.

The only choice for dishwasher drawers is Fisher & Paykel. F&P also offered dishwasher drawers under the DCS brand for a while (they bought the company in 2004) but none are currently listed on DCSAppliances.com.

Note that F&P introduced drawer dishwashers in 1997 so they're not quite exactly a new product.

Rightfully so. Kitchenaid only sold the rebranded FP drawers which were maintenance nightmares (in addition to the fact that despite the neato factor, are a pain in the butt even when they work).

Do yourself a favor and forgo the FP product. Unreliable piece of garbage. I finally yanked mine out and gave them to Habitat (felt bad about that but someone will think they're neat). My sister has one that has NEVER functioned.

Thank you, @Dadoes and @RonNatalie. Did not realize those KA’s were refrigerator drawers. And I hate the negative F-P review but that is pretty strong commentary. Also think thee must be a reason no other manufacturer has ventured into the drawer space. Have just pivoted (once again) to a “lesser” Bosch 800 series...as best I can tell from comparing models on the Bosch site, the third rack is not adjustable on the model I have moved to...oh, and 2 decibels louder (42 vs 44) 🙄. Supposedly available 1/7/21, but I’m not holding my breath. Amazingly, even upgrading to a $2K Benchmark model seems impossible. Lesson learned, if you’re planning a spring remodel, order your dishwasher now. Until then, I’m back to my Playtex gloves and hand washing my wine glasses. 🥴

@Ron Natalie: "Rightfully so. Kitchenaid only sold the rebranded FP drawers which were maintenance nightmares (in addition to the fact that despite the neato factor, are a pain in the butt even when they work)."

That is not correct. The first generation KA drawer units introduced circa 2004, KUDD01 models, were rebadged F&P.

Second generation KA units, KUDD03 models (there was no KUDD02) were not sourced from F&P. They were a completely different design Whirlpool got with the purchase of Maytag in 2006. F&P did not produce them. Fulgor was involved in the manufacture if I recall correctly.

KUDD01 service manual is document KAD-9 "Drawer Dishwasher" in Whirlpool's tech library.

KUDD03 service manual is document KAD-10 "2008 Drawer Dishwasher."

Try searching for those documents, and also search for parts diagrams, to see the differences in the design vs. F&P. It doesn't use the SmartDrive motor, has separate electric circulate and drain pumps. Has a turbidity sensor for a soil-sensing function (F&P does not). Has a whirly-gig manifold mounted on the back of the tub that sprays forward over the dishware, fed by a hose routed on the exterior from the circulation pump. A formed heating element similar to a frontload washer vs. F&P's flat/disc ceramic element. Among other differences

This other design was also sold under the Kenmore Elite brand (both single-
and double-drawer models), check parts diagrams for models 465.13333,
465.13339, 465.13342, 465.13343, 465.13349, 465.13322, 465.13323,
465.13329.
465 is Sears manufacture code for Maytag/Jenn Air sourcing

There also apparently is some reason of success that F&P has continued producing/selling their drawer units for 23+ years.