Thanks, missingtheobvious. Yep, I missed the obvious. I know better than to post after that long a day. Or I thought I did. Apparently not..... But re vines, Lucy: Make sure you are not choosing something that will end up being a huge problem. No ivy, no others that are invasive in your area. Up here in the north, I would be looking at possible combinations of akebia, several of the clematis varieties, one of the more delicate climbing roses, etc, all tolerant, within limits, of moderate to deep shade. Don't know what would thrive in shade where you are. But watch for invasive characteristics when choosing plants. And remember that the strategy of most perennial vines is to grow to reach for light. In pots or planters, worst case, you leave them more in the lighted area of the yard for a week or three til they have vines that are 2 or 3 ft long. Then move the pot/planter into the deep shade, and give them a little something to climb, and they will find as much sun as they are comfortable with. They may end up being leggy in the first foot or three, but you can plant other things at their feet. They should be lush above. I love the ideas of both the bench over part of the drain and designing the 'step/s' outside the slider as informal seating. The floor.... Safe enough for the kid. Up here, I would probably use cheap shredded mulch, but in your hot/humid, this would be a home for lots of molds and other unnecessary allergen exposures for a little one. Ruling that one out. In a larger yard, where there was likely to be a swing set at some point, and in a few years maybe a trampoline, I would be much more concerned about hard surfaces. But it looks like this small area will be for quieter, less athletic play, with no mechanical assists to tempt a child to fly, and then plummet.... If so, then make sure your surface is laid evenly, whatever it is. No big trip hazards, no rock points that can cause unnecessary damage over a simple stumble. That should be sufficient.

I just stumbled upon this discussion and felt compelled to make my contribution. I know brick because I work for a brick manufacturer. However, I will try to keep my personal bias at bay. The first issue to address is durability. When installed properly, either option will provide many decades of service. Both materials have the compressive strength and moisture absorption ratings to withstand the harshest climates nature can throw at them. There is actually another factor affecting cement pavers, but since it doesnt actually cause failure of the unit, I will address it in the appearance section. Either way, make sure your bricks/pavers are designed to go in the ground. Not all cement materials, nor are all bricks designed to do this. It was mentioned that the deterioration of house bricks in a patio was unheard of and that it would actually be an advantage to find reclaimed bricks from a demolition project. DO NOT DO THIS! For a segmental paving material to withstand Mother Nature, it must have a minimum compressive strength of 8,000 psi and a maximum absorption rate of 7% after a 24 hour soak in cold water. I have seen historical test data from the mid 1900Âs that showed that many solid house bricks (which were often used mistakenly as pavers) had compressive strengths around 5,000 psi and absorption rates in the double digits! Needless to say, those ill-fated patios are either long gone or a horrible eyesore now. Now that you can be comfortable in choosing a durable product, the second issue to address is appearance. Additional factors besides just the look of the brick/paver should be considered. For instance, do you want your pavement to match the colors of the bricks on your house? Will you be incorporating any retaining walls in your project? No matter how hard you try, you simply cannot match a clay color in a cement product and vice versa. Brick makers do not currently make a dry-stack retaining wall system; therefore a brick retaining wall will require more work. However, if you are trying to create a stately atmosphere it may be worth the additional work (or hiring of a mason contractor) to build your retaining wall. The first factor of appearance, the look of the actual brick/paver does speak pretty much for itself. However, I do want to address some comments from the thread. To my knowledge (I have not researched this) cement pavers have always had their colors mixed throughout the paver. (End lack of research warning.) What is actually happening is fading due to ultraviolet radiation. This can be mistaken for the coloring only being on the surface because with time cement pavers will actually wear down. This is evident in a cement paver project once it has been installed for about 10 years. Because the erosion is visible (you can actually see the aggregate) it is commonly believed that coloring is superficial as well. I do not see the issue of erosion as a durability factor since the units will still be in one piece and the pavement system as a whole will not fail. (Personal bias warning in effect)However, after all your hard work and money put into your project, wouldnÂt you want it to look the same as it does now in ten years? (End bias warning.) To be fair, cement pavers can be sealed on an annual basis to ensure their color retention. However, when you add up the cost of initial construction and yearly maintenance over ten years, you could probably install solid granite for about the same cost. (I havenÂt done the math and may have exaggerated, so research it for yourself and see.) There are advantages for both products (Although one list may be longer than the other!) and your unique concerns and application should be considered. In addition, other pavement options such as bluestone and granite are worth researching and considering as well. I know this has been an extremely long reply, but I sincerely hope it helps you make an informed decision. While there are not as many "genuine clay paving brick" retailers as paver retailers, we are out here. Do your research and you will find us!

You're welcome! maire_cate - No pool, but the existing patio does get slippery when wet, especially when I am in flip flops. tinam61 - Our patio was poured, and then it was suppose to be acid stained. Instead, they rolled some type of stain on top, and then sealed it. As I said, the inside has held up with two more applications of sealer in the last 5 years. The outside has actually been re-stained (after the first season and flaking began)and has been sealed 4 times. Yes, the overlay has color applied before the epoxy is poured. Are you thinking of having the lower driveway done with stamped concrete, or brick pavers? If you are in an area that gets lots of snow (and salt) I would not try the stamped concrete. My neighbor has has his torn up and redone, and still had it ruined over the winter with the salt trucks. susieq07 - I've seen your driveway before. You've had that quite a while. Has it held up well? Talked to DH today. We are going to wait for the estimates to come back on our project. If the numbers are within our budget, I think we are going to go ahead and either add to the existing pad before having a coating put on it, or tear the pad up and pour a larger pad. We could also do pavers instead of a concrete pad. Maybe the yard would not get as torn up if we are just taking out the old pad, and not having to have a new pad poured. Again, it all depends on the expense and our budget. I wish for a larger patio to be able to serve our needs. Here is the rest of what we are doing. Pergola will be attached to house. So instead of four columns, we will have two. This will improve our siteline from the house and screen porch. From backyard looking at patio and screened porch From backyard with pergola mock-up From backyard with pergola, grill enclosure and fireplace mock-up Fireplace and/or pergola examples that I like. We are not sure whether to go with brick to match our house (if we can find it) and use stone accents like this. There would be seats on either side and the chimney will be higher to tie in with pergola. I like this the best, but chimney would not be quite this tall because we will have gas. Take away the two columns, and scaled down a bit, plus add the seats. Original dream photo. I've hung onto this for a couple of years. Saw this at General Shale yesterday and was determined that this was it! Today, I am having second thoughts that it may be TOO formal. Plus, the white detailing may become a headache for cleaning. I think that I'd rather go with detailing like the following photo, whether used with stone or brick. Did I tell y'all that we will also be improving the looks of the screened porch post? Instead of the solid paint stain on rough treated post, and the vinyl cladding on the outside of the porch, we will have the post re-wrapped with a smooth paintable wood and then redo the screening and trim them out. Again, this is something with can put on the back burner if needed. After all, I just stained the post last summer. Throw in some landscaping, lighting and furniture, we will be all done!

Looks like a fun project! This is the type of work we do all the time! Although we don't work in the Northwest, our knowledge of proper paver, patio & structure (pergolas) installation should suffice. The overall design looks great. There are a few SOLID pointers to building anything outside. 1. Solid foundation or footings. This goes for both the pergola & the paver or concrete patio. The pegolas structures usually needs a large footer (at least 18' x 18' wide, and usually 18' to 24' deep). This will ensure the new structure is solide. The pavers & patios should also have a good foundation, which we call the BASE. A well prepared paver base should be 6' of ABC (engineered backfill) - this ABC is usually crushed rock, granite or stone, and contains many sizes of aggreggate (not dirt) - this BASE is compacted firmly, and if done deep enough, should keep ALL your patios from settling over time. Here is some information on how we do our pavers - directly from my company website - Patio Pavers Concrete patios usually don't get this sub-base prep work, but if you are looking for a long term project, or concrete that won't crack - it's worth doing a 4' sub-base preparation for any concrete areas. Sometimes, we actually lay pavers over concrete - this is not the most cost effective way for new paver installation, but it's a great REMODEL tip. I noticed some asphalt areas there - pavers should be able to go directly over the top (with using some sand to get them to drain away from the house) 2. DRAINAGE - you've mentioned french drain, and you are on the right track of thinking. Proper drainage is KEY for a long term patio & landscaping project solution. Getting water away from the foundation of your house & pergola is very important! French drains are a great way to spread water and rid water over a long pipe run, for patios, it's all about getting water out into your grass area - it can dissappate from there... The patio beds up against the house will make a nice 'softening' of the house with some color & plant texture, just be sure you don't create a way for water to enter back under the house. Make sure your roof doesn't drain into these planters, and if it does - you'll need some guttering to push water away from the foundation. OVERALL - you should be able to see some of our pergola & patio cover pictures on my company site. I've found a few issues when building free-standing pergolas. 1. It will need SOME sort of block or foundation around the base of each column. Just having it sit on a footer tends to not help with the 'wobbly-ness' of the new structure. 2. Normal framing SIMPSON brackets are fine. The local home depot can supply many of these T-braces, lag screws, etc.... You should be able to see some of our Pergola construction techniques here. Otherwise, visit our landscape portfolio PERGOLA page on the same site. Lots of individual pics. Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns - i may be able to post some construction diagrams of our pergolas, if you'll find that useful? Here is a link that might be useful: UNIQUE LANDSCAPES Homepage