1) Bid out everything even if you are planing to do the work yourself

2) Review your plans 1000 times.

3) Do not use Menards lists or craigslist

4) Obtain the demolition permit if applicable.

5) Discuss the build with your neighbors after you get approved, it will be noisy for them.

6) Review structural support and mechanical ductwork locations.

7) DO NOT USE YOUR FAMILY OR FRIENDS if you want to keep them.

8) Measure everything twice, correct/rework the foundation if improperly pureed not the entire house plan.

9) Ask for concrete tickets, check slump #. For every gallon per yard of water added on the job, aggregate loses at least 200 psi in strength. If you add 20 gallons to a 10-yard load - 2 gallons per yard - you are probably losing 400 to 500 psi. High slump # + field added water = total cr@p foundation. Vibrate the foundation corners

10) If a foundation wall longer > 20ft thicken it, dont leave it at 8".

11) Buy your own windows and paint (too many paint cheats)

12) Use engineered trusses and not stick built roofs...

.. (many others)..

Good luck with your project.

Unless you have extensive experience as a professional renovator, fugeddabout it.

How many homes have you built previously? If the answer is less than five, there's some very good advice in the comments above.

I'm assuming you're % cash or found that rare lender.

Do this to emulate pros:

Get the entire project specified and bid out to develop your budget.

Understand that you will be dealing with 100+ categories of purchases of materials & subcontracts, where small variances in specs can add up to $100s of thousands. Some call them "extras" while others see them as "optional amenities".

Keep your subs happy, informed and paid promptly, or they will charge you for every legitimate change and mistake you make. Clean the job weekly at a minimum, daily if you can.

Also do this for a more successful DIY

Put in a 20% contingency because you haven't done this before, then don't touch it until you're at least drywalled with 100% of selections made.

Do not assume your budget can even meet a builder's total price.

"Deals" and "discounts" from big box retailers are false savings, designed to lure you into a spiral of never ending purchases chasing that initial deal.

PERMITS

This is a gauntlet that tests some. Make sure you understand the local permitting and impact fee process and total costs. Not knowing where you are, ask both the building department as well as builders about totals. Building departments aren't always very good at telling people about the other 20-30 items that might have to be paid in order to either issue or final a permit, because "its not their department". Some building departments are the central hub for collections, some are not. In my region (N CA) each municipality is different. Total permit & impact fees range from $50-80K. Understand if your parcel is a "finished lot" or an "undeveloped parcel" that needs utilities brought to it, etc.

-

If you have never done anything like this before, I can just say that you are letting yourself in for a possibly painful and stressful experience that will go on for months (or years) and may result in a house that does not meet expectations. Any major build inevitably involves snags, problems, and delays, and you may not have the background to effectively handle all of them. I have been doing remodeling projects in my various homes for almost 40 years, and I started with small projects and worked my way up. My last major remodel doubled the size of the home, and I suspect I could effectively manage as owner-builder on a project like yours now...but I probably wouldn't.

Just because I have built up my knowledge of the work processes involved and can wire, plumb, sheetrock, tile, and do rough and finish carpentry doesn't mean I think I would get the best result by tackling a big project as owner-builder.

I'm trying to inject a note of reality, rather than trying to absolutely discourage you. I'm simply a counseling you to re-examine why you are considering doing this without, I suspect, a broad background in home construction. Is it to save money?...you might not. Is it because you like doing new things?...well it could be quite an adventure, and more than you want. Or are you truly handy, knowledgeable, and experienced in what to expect, and you just didn't communicate that when you posted?

If you do build either owner builder or with a builder there is very valuable experiences to get from here and there are some whose delivery is better than others, but don't discount the site because of the delivery. It may be useful to think through some of those as well even though you don't find it valuable in the end. I don't think anyone is trying to not help even though it may not be in the form someone wishes to read/hear it. Seems to me like you got some good advice and things to think through.

I'm an experienced re-modeler which includes foundation and up, but I just don't have the energy to be my own GC. I know how much time and energy it takes and I will likely be micro-managing things anyways, but being able to put the responsibility somewhere else to follow through on it will be worth the extra cost to me of having a builder as well as having another person with experience to figure out solutions when something goes wrong. I also want to be working with a builder that will allow that sort of overseeing. Although I now have a couple of builders that have excellent references so maybe things will be smoother than my re-modeling experiences.

My thoughts are plan and plan and plan again. The order, the subs (check references and be willing to wait for the good ones), the actual house plans. Check for functionality, Check and double check everything before it is too late. Measure everything during construction. Also consider the amount of time that both you and your husband will be spending on it and weigh it against the time you need with your family activities and work. You don't want work to suffer since it is part of your livelihood. This is the deal killer for me and also why I will be using a builder. Work would be suffering for me as I wouldn't let family time suffer and something would have to give since I also need to sleep. Also make sure that you have enough delays built into your time-line. There will be weather delays, sub delays, other delays etc. Also considering what back-up options you have ahead of time for everything that could possibly go wrong and what material substitutes you can live with ahead of time will keep delays at a minimum of the ones that you can control from your end.

I understand your frustration with this board swiatek - it takes a strong constitution sometimes. HOWEVER, don't abandon ship just yet. Try to pick out the helpful tidbits and reread the ones that seem least helpful a few times - odds are there is something in there you should hear as uncomfortable as it may sound.

We did owner/builder, my DH had 25+ years in his own home remodeling business going into our build in 2015 and we STILL had more than what seemed to be our share of issues. If there are specific things you are wondering about I'm happy to give you our experience but it would take a small book to shotgun all aspects of our build and hope to hit info that is of use to you. Post here or message me if you prefer.

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I swear what I'm writing has zero intention to be considered a "shot" at you - but I'm concerned if you have the constitution to successfully handle an owner-build if the comments here have you this upset.

I've had 2 homes built for me. The stress involved is pretty hard to fathom until you've lived it.

I haven't seen anyone upthread be mean to you - they were just trying to give you some of the potential realities and pitfalls.

There is good advice here for you and those who don't ask but will read. That's who this is also written.

I wouldn't change my advice.

I've built homes for several licensed contractors. Counting at least 10 split 50/50 between my father & myself. Several were repeats.

But I can honestly say I will never post on here again, it’s just a headache I don’t need to deal with.

I didn't think the advice was all that bad but one does have to have a thick skin for some of the stuff posted which I really didn't see much of that here. I've had probably 20 of my designs posted by owners and at times it's been rough as the commenters are seeing a snapshot of the end of the process and aren't seeing the compromises made to get there. Singlular comments have been "But where's the dog going to sleep" and "Where does a person hang up their bathrobe when taking a shower?" which, if THAT'S all that's wrong, we're in great shape!

But back to your question, Mrs. ARG and I have acted as our own GC's for three builds over the last 25 years and if you do it, plan on it being basically a full time job that's going to effect significantly your other job(s). For example when the electrician wants to meet you to go over outlet locations, he's probably not going to want to do it on a Saturday or 6PM when you're off from work. And there's going to 100's of instances like that.

But either way, GC'ing or hiring a builder, exciting times ahead! The best of luck and keep asking questions!

I'm not an owner/builder, just an owner who built my own custom design with a builder. However because we didn't choose our builder wisely (although we did vet him extensively - long story), I wound up working with the supervisor doing everything. (While our builder claims to be a custom 1 off builder, he had his supervisors working on 8-10 houses at a time. If I hadn't been there, my house would have been a disaster so I guess you can say I was an owner/builder) It was a full time job. I was there a minimum of once a day checking to make sure things were being done correctly, on time, etc. I was calling for supplies and then double checking to make sure they were following the drawings, etc

Add to that all the hundreds of decisions that need to be decided even if you don't own/build and you can see that if you don't have the time to devote 4-6 hours a day, it would be best to find a really qualified builder. Hopefully better than the one I had.

Thanks swiatek. Yes it all still being worked out. If you have a large glass of wine and want to see the full saga including the finished pics, all the links are below although some stuff I did leave out as we are still trying to finish up.

Honestly, just about everything in the house had to be redone 2 or more times. The sliders to the balcony, the AC had to be redone 3 or was it 4x (the last time after we moved in and ceilings had to be torn down and then retextured and repainted after they redid all the duct work because they did it wrong the first time so DH's study was 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the downstairs. The texturing and repainting took them an additional 3x which was a disruption).

The pool had to be redug a second time, the kitchen window was the wrong size, and the floor in the living room wasn't level (They were off 1" in 17') which caused a 5+ month delay.

They built the ceiling over the staircase 3" too low so it wasn't to code. That took them 2 or 3 tries to finally get correct.

Additionally I paid top dollar for three slabs of expensive quartzite as a separate line item and the fabricator "broke" one slab and still refuses to pay us for the slab. (Additionally she supposedly broke it but the only pics she has to show us of it "broken" are of remnant rectangular pieces. I would think it it truly broke, there would be shards and more jagged pieces?)

My outside railings are buckling because they used an Azek material instead of wood and we are in SW FL.

Instead of using Hardie trim along the house, they again used an Azek type material so it wound up separating because you can't use Azek material with a dark paint color and I had chosen my paint colors (dark trim) even before the house was started.

The builder is on his second or third painter trying to get my house finished being painted. The first crew would walk around without drop cloths and a dripping brush "touching" up the white semi- gloss which would make it flash.

The windows were detailed at the wrong height upstairs and I finally caught it when we started to order windows. No one else caught it and if they had ordered the windows without catching it, it would have meant the windows would have been hitting the tops of the roof on the first floor.

They forgot to put insulation behind the medicine cabinets so in the summertime the interior of the medicine cabinets reach a temp in the 90's.

My doors on the first floor are not a full 8' high because they put the windows on the first floor 2" lower than 8' so to make my hatband trim work, they had to cut my doors down which made my door handles barely high enough.

And there's more in my threads. We started our adventure in March of 2015, moved in April 2018, got our CO January 2019, and they're still finishing up stuff now 4 years later.

And this was a fully custom and high end home. Building is not for the faint of heart:

Please Critique our house

Almost Final Plans

Which of These Look More Craftsman (answer: NONE!)

Which of these craftsman choices

New elevations, please review

Redone Plans because of the zoning board

Moving the W/D out of the foyer (One of my dumb ideas I was talked out of.)

These are my plans finally (hahaha)

Trying to rework my master suite

Rethinking my upstairs

The continuing saga (This is after we purchased an additional 1/2 lot)

Architects, need help

Just when you thought my saga was over

Which Porch do you prefer

Absolute Final Plans

[Finished House[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/cpartists-finished-house-dsvw-vd~5590161)

[Finished Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/cpartists-kitchen-finished-dsvw-vd~5590582)

swiatek-

I suspect if you had included in your original post that you and your husband have the background to take this on, I think you would have gotten different responses. I'm not faulting you for this, but I do want to explain something. I have been on this web site for years and posted literally 1000's of times, usually answering questions, but sometimes asking them. While you have been turned off by discouraging comments, I can tell you that almost all of the posters were trying to be helpful: we have seen people post here with seemingly simple questions in the past and their lack of knowledge and the likelihood of getting in over their heads was apparent. Yours seemed to initially fall into that category. People here do try to be genuinely helpful, but sometimes being helpful means educating neophytes on what can happen if their desires exceed their knowledge and skill level. If you re-read your initial post from that perspective, maybe you'll understand why, lacking further info, many of us made the assumptions we did.

I understand this is your first post here, but I hope it isn't your last. And I hope your project goes well and that you will be able to share your experience with this forum as you progress. That would be both interesting as well as helpful to others who are considering doing what you want to do and are unsure about what's involved.

Good luck.

CP artist, Ive only looked at your final house pictures so far but it looks gorgeous!

Thank you. It is finally living how we expected and we do love it. Great passive solar heating/cooling. Wonderful indoor/outdoor relationship. Love my kitchen, studio, etc.

Kudzu brings up a good point. So many people come here for the first time and ask a question like yours and when we delve further, we find out the person hasn't even had experience doing minor repairs to a house and even before starting with a plan are in over their heads. Obviously, you and your husband are not because of your backgrounds.

When I first came here, I came with the idea that most people did want to be helpful and because of their help, my house truly is a wonderful place to live. Haven't seen Mushcreek in a while, but he's built his own house from the ground up including designing it himself. You might want to message him.

Also as DLM said, she and her hubby were owner/builders so I'd certainly take her up on her suggestion. I will say she's helped me quite a few times as well as the architects on this forum and of course lots of the lay folks. We who hang out here tend to be house geeks.

Swiatek, please don't worry. Also know that your initial posts cannot be edited after 30 minutes. Any posts you make below the initial post can be edited for I believe 30 days.

swiatek-

No problem with your original post being in "poor taste"...you just didn't have the context to understand what this forum was like, and I just wanted to explain and encourage you to not go away. :-)

Swiatek - owner/builder here, although we did hire a builder to get us to dry-in. For the most part after that we have hired trades directly or done the work ourselves. It is easily my full time job and I feel better at it some days than others. We have the benefit of some really generous people around here for advice, supervision and in some cases loans of great crews. We have made mistakes based on ignorance, but so far they haven't been costly ones. We also have the huge benefit of a very small town with an inspector who I call and ask questions any time I need. My building permit took an hour of consulting and going over all the details, and 20 min to fill out the paperwork. I am thankful we live where we do.

@Cyndy "It is easily my full time job" <==== says an owner builder

That is a great observation from an owner builder. Even new contractors, both GCs and trade contractors underestimate the time it takes (to do it right).

Heidi.....make SURE you get GC pricing otherwise you will be paying as if you hired a GC to build. Typically, GC pricing is approx 40-50% less than consumer price for subs, framing, elect, plumb, painting..etc. The ONLY way you are going to save money. I know this as a fact in this area.

Robin knows no things as facts. Everything he posts are his opinions

40-50%? Where and how do make this crap up?

If discounts like that were available, everyone would become a GC... ;-)

You will get better answers if you ask better questions. Your question implied you had never managed a construction project before which is a common situation on the forum but you omitted a very important piece of information.

In my area avg custom 600k; gc can make up to 200k or loose money out. it takes great deal of luck.

1) if you pay everyone the "fair price" - expect to loose money.

2) when you build something to sell - you treat mentally everyone as a thief. That architect = he stole your 12k of proffit. That hvac guy upsell to 14.5 trying to steal your money. The metal flashing over windows = 50 windows x $2/ft x 3ft avg = stole $300 of your proffit. that 4k you paid to nail soffits and facia stole $2500 of your proffit. Fancy carriage house garage doors - stole $3k each.

3) Building a house for yourself is a totally different animal. Wife comes out and says you know we need all the extra flashing, It will leak in 15 years without it. The $350 16 ft ammar doors - not in our house. Porch beams - better be miratec wrapped, no exterior exposed wood. Hvac - geo would be nice. Windows - please dont put cheap ones. Flooring - solid #1 oak stained in place, closets/pantry dont use melamine.

4) 30% savings on your own custom build = dream on, i will be lucky to break even.

@Robin

If there is one thing wrong with our society at this particular point in time, it is the constant need to believe an opinion as fact.

You are simply wrong. I actually wish you were right, as I would be assured a Nobel for research into this wholesale violation of supply and demand. You claim to be educated, so please just use it.

Here is what we know as objective facts. The construction industry is one of the most undercapitalized industries. Of that industry, G.C.s are absolutely the most undercapitalized. When subcontractors bid jobs they actually build in a risk of non payment, and non payment is common enough that we created a special set of laws to handle it.

Even when the economy is good, G.C.s still outnumber most any other field for bankruptcies (I think food service is actually number 1), and when the economy is bad, they can outnumber all other fields. Most G.C.s are only one or two bad jobs from bankruptcy today in this booming construction economy. Building a house is usually a lesson in forced compromise. How many here have built a house and had their builder, who they generally see in a positive light, refuse to simply correct an obvious mistake? The reason is they simply can't afford to eat that type of repair.

So let's use that supposed education you have. Theoretically, we can start thinking of abnormal profits and barriers to entry. We know that industries with high profit margins have high barriers to entry. For example we know the average cost to bring a drug to the U.S. market is $1 billion, so we expect drug companies to have higher than normal profit margins, because regardless of how profitable they are, you don't have a billion dollars laying around to compete with them. G.C.s have one of the lowest barriers to entry. Some states don't even license G.C.s so you just proclaim yourself a G.C. and pay for business cards. Most other states license G.C.s with only minimal requirements and only a few states have significant training requirements.

One of the things that drive down builder profits is vertical supply chain integration. Every sub is only one step removed from being a G.C. so were there too much profit in being a G.C. subs would become a G.C. and have automatic synergy.

Next we can look at the big national builders to see their profit margins. Those who are publicly traded must reveal that information. Even with all the market advantages these large builders have, the industry averages are well below that of the market. The 5 quarter profit market average for the construction sector was 4%, while the rest of the market was over 10%.

I can keep going with this, though I know it is useless. In the past, you have claimed education credentials to add weight to your posts. Having an education is different than using it. So, again, please just use yours.

"Are you going to answer??????"

Yes, I have been in the construction supply business both residential and commercial for 35 years, and you are completely out of touch. If you have been told all of this for fact you need to pick new people to research with. As well as research grammar, and puncuation. As your atrocious butchering of such makes you look even more like a buffoon when you make your assanine claims as fact.

The correct term is troll. The goal of a troll is to disrupt a forum and this one has succeeded. When someone starts using all caps the best approach is to flag the post and forget about it.

I don't actually think Robin is a troll, I think Robin believes that (s)he has insight into the profession that few have, and will not be convinced otherwise by facts or experience.

Personally, I prefer Robin stick with the "kook warning" spelling and punctuation, because were it well spoken it might actually do real harm.

If you believe that over 50% of what you read on the internet is false, then the post in question is about average. There is some truth to what Robin has said, I know that for a fact.

Just as an example, my truck had an MSRP of $51,700. I negotiated a price of $34,000 out the door (it was a leftover) for a "profit" of about 33% on that contract.

It wouldn't be unusual for a GC to gross 30-40% on a project, it's all the other expenses that kill the profit margin.

It wouldn't be unusual for a GC to gross 30-40% on a project, it's all the other expenses that kill the profit margin.

Why would you use gross profit? It literally means nothing in this case, or in the case of the car dealership, which again is a business with high barriers to entry.

----

Gross profit is simply sales less the cost of sales. So for Walmart that would be the amount you paid for merchandise less what they had to pay for it before they sold it to you. So that percentage doesn't include Walmart employee expenses, their warehouse, the stores, their electric bill, etc.

It also doesn't mean that you can buy the same stuff Walmart does for the same price they do. Were you to eliminate Walmart, and their 25% gross profit, you wouldn't actually create savings instead you would have to spend more money than someone who buys from Walmart.

Coca-Cola has a 60% gross profit margin, but even were you to buy all their ingredients at their price (something you would not be able to do) you still don't have a Coca-Cola...

It is wrong to look at gross profit as any kind of measure of value added. It is also wrong to compare gross profit across different industries. Facebook's 83% gross margin seems impressive when compared to Walmart's 25%, but when you compare Facebook's gross margin to Yelp's 94% that doesn't seem so crazy and Walmart to Target's 27%.

Different industries generate value in different ways and so you shouldn't compare auto dealers with builders. We should also mention that MSRP has no bearing on gross profit at all, and in the U.S. auto industry it really has little resemblance to actual pricing as very few pay MSRP.

If a sub marks up his cost 20% and the GC marks that up the sub's price 20%, the total markup is 44%. But the owner-builder can only hope to avoid the 20% GC markup and a sub might increase his markup due to the difficulty of working with an owner-builder which is what Robin was getting at before obscuring the point with exaggerated GC markup numbers.

No sub is going to price a project at their cost, however, a truck dealer might.

"No sub is going to price a project at their cost, however, a truck dealer might."

Or even below if he is getting incentives from the automaker to clear out inventory. The two are completely differnt business models and cannot be realistically compared.

Back end in house financing makes up for selling vehicles at cost. Very few builders are going to be their own bank to finance home builds and earn that. Only the large developers would ever have the potential to carry all notes in house beyond just a build phase.

Basic junior high school math courses surely cover the difference between gross and net.

Profit is not a dirty word. It’s how anyone who provides goods or services provides for their families. Gross receipts are not “profit”. Markup isn’t margin. That’s the one that most people don’t get. If getting 25 cents out every dollar on a project translates to even a 10% final margin, a builder is likely very organized, small, and runs his world out of his truck. Or, more likely, doesn’t really know how to calculate his true overhead.

A lot of builders are good builders and terrible business people. It’s why the Depression cleared out so many, and eliminated the retirement accounts of those who made it through. Those are the people who won’t make that mistake of the slim rainy day fund again. As they have every right to do.

We are doing an owner/builder. Our builder built us the shell and we took over from there. We have used friends and family in their different areas of expertise and I'm proud to say our relationships with them are as strong as ever. As is my relationship with my husband. We are a really good team. We've hired out the stuff we knew we lacked skill in, finishing the drywall (we hung it all), fabricating & installing countertops, etc. but everything else has been done by us. Full disclosure, this is a second home, we both have full time jobs, and it's an hour away from our house. We have two kids that are heavily involved in sports and I'm taking online classes. We are still getting it done. Determination can take you a long way. It is taking us some time and we have to make sacrifices to our social life but I am not exaggerating when I say this has been my favorite experience and the outcome so far is exceeding my expectations. Balance is key. It's definitely not something everyone can or would want to do, but for us it was the best possible decision. Let me know if you have any questions and I can help you out the best I can.

We are in process of building our own retirement home. We started 2 years ago and thinking that we need another 2 or 3 years to finish. The biggest challenge for us for the time: kids in school, full time jobs, location is 1.5h drive so we built in weekends and vacation time. The biggest advice which I can give you is to open contractor account at the store, this will save you a lot of money. Other then that, plan, plan and again plan before start working. With exception of digging the foundation and pouring the basement slab we did everything and trust me is not rocket science, just follow the building codes and be nice and kind with the inspectors. They will let you know everything or guide you where to find the info. Good luck in this adventure...you will have fun and satisfaction.