New natives growing and planting.

Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm growing a large number of new native plants this year. In this thread me and others doing the same thing, are talking about the whole process from seed to planting. If you are growing some new native plants this year or just thinking about it, feel welcome to chime in!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)





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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's Monday March 11 2019. Several species of new natives have been winter sowing for 8 weeks. In about 4 weeks they will start sprouting.

https://youtu.be/trJKZDEfvrc

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Can’t wait to see the happenings in your bins! Skip, would you mind posting the picture of your progress again? So sorry I missed it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, you can see pictures now?

Asclepias incarnata var. pulchra

Asclepias incarnata var. pulchra

Violas native to South Carolina.



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skips prep work!




A clean canvas! (well, maybe not!)

Iris, let me know if you missed any other pictures.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I can see the pictures! This is a really pretty milkweed. Guess I will see which of mine are coming back. Can’t be that much longer. The first Monarch eggs last year were on March 30. I think my violets are the ones in the second picture.

Skip, this looks awesome! Gets me motivated to grab a saw and lopers.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

There is still a lot more to do at either end, but I am making progress! There will no doubt be a flush of weeds in the spring, but I picked out most of the junk that makes it into an impenetrable tangle. I pulled a big poison ivy vine off that bigger tree to the right by the fence and dug out its roots. That was a little nerve wracking but I didnt get a rash so its all good.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am glad you escaped the poison ivy. It’s disheartening how fast the weeds are growing back after cleaning up an area. I should order a load or two of mulch. I doubt they will deliver at the moment though if they have to back up into the grass to dump it. They showed the tree service people on the news. They can’t work because their equipment is sinking in.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

What kind of area did you clean up? Like woods, an edge, or a field? I had a tree truck leave deep ruts in my yard in fall 2017 and theyre still not completely gone.

The point of clearing for me, is to eliminate the mature, seed bearing, self-perpetuating invasive plants, so I can replace them with different long lived self-perpetuating plants that will better support wildlife. Creating a beautiful, functional space for myself is also a priority, so while greenbriar and poison ivy are great wildlife plants, they are not really plants I want to be near. When you create a void. something will fill it. I would fully expect all the vines and multiflora to grow back if I didnt keep removing them or replant something else right away. I am thinking about some cheap shade tolerant seed to cover the ground between plants while everything fills in. Even with all the plants Im trying to grow from seed, there is still too much space there for me to cover by planting.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I was talking about the areas around my flower beds to make them a bit bigger. So I would say field. I don’t really have any woods yet, but things are a bit slower under the few bigger trees I have. I can’t believe I saw English Ivy creeping up my oak today. I thought I won that battle two years ago.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was thinking about plants that would make good bud repellants and pennyroyal came to mind. It's not native so I looked and found a native called American pennyroyal. It's Hedeoma pulegoides. It's an annual in the mint family. I'm ordering a hundred seeds. They will be worth it for keeping the bugs off and bees like the flowers, and milkweeds need bees for pollination. It will self sow every year. It has a very strong medicinal peppermint smell.

Hedeoma pulegoides, Lamiaceae, Lamiales..

Hedeoma pulegoides

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/am_pennyroyal.htm

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Interesting! Do you think it really works? Seems nothing repels mosquitos around here.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes, I think it really works. Sometimes I rub rue or fennel leaves to keep the bugs away, but I think this plant will work better. Rue doesn't bother my skin. I hope the Swallowtails use it this year, and the fennel!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, do you grow any annuals that self sow? They might help keep the weeds down a little. I grow a few, Salvia coccinea, Coreopsis tinctoria, and Verbena bonariensis. Do your Tithonias self sow? They don't self sow up here.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I do have annuals that self sow, the Tithonias do, too. But they are all coming up later. This time of year is the worst. Hen bit, dead nettle, bittercress, cleaver and a lot of other plants I don’t know the name of. They disappear when it gets warmer though.

i would not try to rub the Rue on my arms. Haven’t gotten a rash from it yet, but I am careful around it. Let me know if your plant works!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Are you finished ordering all your plants Iris? I still haven't heard back from Mountain Gardens about my plant request. Are any of your milkweeds showing new growth yet? I'm going to leave all the vollunteer syriacas where they are and just plant around them. I have to decide if I want a black cherry, a choke cherry, or a choke berry. Whichever is the best hostplant. My Cynanchum laeve vine will get pretty big too. I have to decide where to put it. It feeds a lot of Monarch cats.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Pine Ridge has my wishlist. Hope to hear from them soon as to what they have available. Otherwise I think I am done. Unless you guys here introduce me to something I just have to have.....No milkweed showing up yet. Other than my aquatic. It actually didn’t even loose all the leaves this winter.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


I didn't read the fine print for Mountain Gardens. It said they start taking bare root orders in April, so there's still a chance of getting an Apios priceana. Pine Ridge has sold amplexicaulis and variegata plants in the past, but I'm not sure they will have them this year. Do you have a wafer ash? Apios priceana and leafy prairie clover are both endangered species in Illinois. I wish I could find seeds for our endangered bush clover Lespedeza leptostachya.

Lespedeza leptostachya.

Dalea foliosa

Apios priceana

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I do have small ones. But they are stuck in my head as Hop tree. No idea why. The area I am working on today has a lot of Bermuda grass. That stuff is such a pain to get out.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

We have a big weather system heading this way with snow and rain. It looks clear by you Iris. It will get here in a couple days. I'm starting to plan where to put all these plants. The 2 part shade beds are already full.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

We should get thunderstorms Friday morning. Today is about perfect. Sunny and 67 degrees. Birds are singing and the frogs are calling. Can’t ask for much more.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Did any more of your Pandurata or sweet potato seeds germinate? Pandurata is considered noxious in North Carolina, but it isn't in Illinois or South Carolina.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Nope. It’s still the lonely one. You have to wonder how something is able to get noxious if it is so hard to grow on purpose. Currently trying to look up some tiny flowers. They are cute, but there are a lot of them. Might ask here later for help or to confirm.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Sounds good to me. I love doing IDs!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I think I got this one. Probably should have known in the first place.

Houstonia pusilla. Does that look right? There are big areas of this right now.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It looks like a Houstonia species. There's a few to look at. They are nice!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Houstonia caerulea? Didn't Skip just show us that plant? Guess you won't have to buy it lol. There is a weed leaf in the pic that was throwing me until I figured it out.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well. There isn’t that much actual grass in the lawn currently. Weed leaves everywhere! Keeps the critters happy.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

That does look like Houstonia, nice!

I see signs of life in my yard, nothing like what you are showing Iris but I can hear the birds and feel the plants waking up. The extended weather forecast is clear of freezing day time temps... spring might actually be on the way!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I can’t wait for Spring! There is a big group of Upland chorus frogs in the drainage pond behind my property as background noise. Plus the 2 green frogs in my pond. The wrens started building a nest. I usually have the garage door open when I am working outside to get my tools, but had to close it since they were hopping around on the shelves looking for the perfect spot.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay said: I have to decide if I want a black cherry, a choke cherry, or a choke berry.

Jay-I can give you seeds for all three later this year. Put a note on your calendar to email me in fall for seeds.

Spring here is not quite close yet. But, had first temps above freezing since early January so I can at least think about it. Going to start my 30 day cold period seeds this week and get them under the 2' of snow. They will like it under there I'm sure.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Sounds good Dandy. I might still get one of those 3 as a plant at THE NEXT NATIVE PLANT SALE. I'd like to add some partridgeberries and wintergreen at some point. We have a native Myrica, but ours is a bog plant.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Be careful with Wintergreen. It grows native up here and I tried transplanting some I found in a ditch but they didn't survive. Seems they need the micro organisms they came with. Make sure you get a guarantee with it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I tried growing wintergreen years ago with no success. I think you are right about what it needs. I tried the bayberries too with no success. It was before bonap. I didn't know the bayberries were'nt native for me. Do you have any Aralia nudacaulis plants?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, are all the lids on your bins secure with the storm coming? Going to look up Aralia. Should look up another weed.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Can anybody tell me what words I should put in the search on Google for this weed?


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I would put that on name that plant. It's cool looking whatever it is. I've never seen anything like it before. I'm sure someone over there knows. I can't blow up pics again. I have to download them in order to enlarge. My perennials are starting to come back. Am going to plant some bare root lilies tomorrow.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Guess I will do that. I dug one up and took pictures including a ruler just in case. I thought I might be able to find something on Google, but I must be using the wrong search term.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It is a hard one to find descriptive words for. I'm thinking that with it looking so unusual it should get a fast ID. Just make sure to use the pic with the ruler. You know how they are about 'scale' lol.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I saw your post on ntp. It could be some bizarre species of chickweed.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thanks Jay! There are so many different ones. At least it looks the defense for the aphids on my milkweeds is already in place. And it’s a native one for once!


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I couldn't find any chickweeds that match.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have plenty of the normal looking chickweed, too. What do you know, googling chickweeed just now again, I should probably eat it! Ha.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Ipomoea panduata evolved in North America along with all of these insects that depend on it to exist!


Pink Spotted Sphinx Moth

Morning Glory Plume Moth

Sweet Potato Leaf Miner Moth

Oligolectic Bee

Mallow Bee

Morning Glory Bee

Striped Tortoise Beetle

Golden Tortoise Beetle

Phaeae monostigma, long horned beetle. Be fruitful and multiply!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Nice pictures. I had some photography fails today. This little one didn’t want to hold still. Plus he looked like he got into a bag of Cheetos.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That's a great picture. What a cute bee! Those weedy mints are great for the bees. A lot of times when I google native woodland gardens the pictures that come up have hostas in them. That bugs me.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Maybe your plant has all of them stumped too lol!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've had problems growing certain morning glories. We used to have a Frank's Nursery store and they would always have seeds for Argyreia nervosa, Hawaiian woodrose. I tried growing them a few times but no luck. It's not even really originally from Hawaii. It's from India. It has near palmate leaves and yellow flowers. I've always loved yellow morning glories. I think I grew another yellow species once and got one flower. These are not native, but they are beautiful.

Argyreia nervosa, medicinal

Argyreia nervosa with woodrose seedpod. Not native!

Merremia umbellata

Merremia vitifolia

Please don't grow these unless you live in the tropical locations these plants are native to. Grow something native like Ipomoea pandurata instead. The wildlife that's still clinging on will thank you!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am still hovering over my one and only seedling. I think I am spotting the first true leaves coming. I hope it will make it. Altogether I planted 40 seeds of this over the past 3 years. Not sure I would try again if it doesn’t work out.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Did you direct sow the seeds outside?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I didn’t. I did the soaking and roughing them up a bit before, this time I just soaked. I didn’t toss the pots that didn’t work right away, I put them outside until the next Spring. Hoping this little one makes it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

At least you got one plant Iris. Still no signs of germination from the popcorn cassia or Gomphocarpus cancellatus. The cassia seeds swelled after soaking, very weird. Only one Salvia coccinea. That won't do. I guess maybe no popcirn cassia this year but that's ok because I'm growing a huge amount of new legumes including another Senna, Senna obtusifolia.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

A long time ago, I tried growing northern bayberry . It never grew much so I dug it out. Now I know it didn't do well because it's not really native to my area. There is a species of Myrica that is native to Illinois. It's Myrica gale and it's a bog plant.

Myrica gale

Myrica gale

Myrica gale.

bonap, range of Myrica gale

natural range of Myrica pensylvanica

Myrica pensylvanica

http://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/shrub/sweet-gale

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

These are all getting planted in the next couple days. I'm going to split my Rudbeckia fulgida clump and move them. Now, where to put the Elephantopus caroliniana and 4' Amsonia illustris? And there's another Amsonia species too.....OMG!!! LOL!

Apios Americana

Lilium superbum

Panax trifolius

Streptopus lanceolatus

Chamaelirium luteum

Clintonia umbellata

Trillium grandiflorum

I just learned that bottlebrush grass can handle shade. I have a huge clump that needs dividing. I'll be able to spread them around and I bet it looks nice in the shade. I'm going to add a second trellis also. One trellis will have Apios americana and Ipomoea quamoclit. The other will have Codonopsis pilosula and Gynostemma pentaphyllum. The last 2 are Chinese life extention herbs. They do other good things too. I think I might cover the metal pipe in the front with something a vine can climb and then plant the Cynanchum laeve vine there.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, that was quick. I had a feeling jekeesl would know it. NEXT! Iris, did you see the common names? One is German knotweed, coincidence??? I usually would look at the weeds of the Carolinas but I didn't this time.

Deutsche Knoterich!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Tsuga canadensis, Canadian Hemlock. A beautiful eastern conifer. It's populations are being decimated by the introduced hemlock wooly adelgid.

Tsuga canadensis

Tsuga canadensis

Tsuga canadensis

Damage caused by hemlock wooly adelgid, Adelges tsugae.

Moth species that use Tsuga canadensis as a host plant........

Anomogyna badicollis, Northern Variable Dart.

Chloropteryx tepperaria, Angel Winged Emerald Moth.

Choristoneura fumiferana, Eastern Spruce Bud Moth.

Eufidonia notataria, Powder Moth.

Feralia comstocki, Comstock's Sallow. WOW!

Lambdina fiscellaria, Hemlock Looper Moth. WOW×2

These are only a few of the species that use Tsuga canadensis as a main or alternate food source. There are many more species!

I got to see a lot of hemlocks during vacations in the east and south. I love their smell. I remember seeing a Luna Moth in Georgia. I'll never forget that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I always have a lot of branches and twigs around so I'm going to try making my own biochar out of them. I looked at some videos about it and most of those required using large metal drums and ovens. A lot of work and money. I found a good, informative video that shows a method that anyone can use. All you need is a shovel and a lighter. If everyone started using terra preta we could end world hunger and stop the slashing and burning of the rain forests!

Left, slash and burn, right terra preta.

https://youtu.be/ISAszTO2udk

https://youtu.be/lZlJSo8RNAY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/06/terra-preta/

Terra preta.


Don't worry, be happy!

Not even Solomon in all his glory was ever arrayed in something as fine as this!



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, that pic of yours with the ladybug. The plant it's on looks like a Houstonia, but the flowers are all white. The plant you showed yesterday had more bluish flowers. Are they the same plant, or could the white one be a different species? They could also be the same species with a variation in flower color.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Native Clematis. The 60 day stratification window is closed. I can't order any more seeds with those requirements now lol. So I can talk about anything without having to get it lol.

Clematis, Tribe Anemoneae, Subfamily Ranunculoideae, Family Ranunculaceae, Order Ranunculales. Most important, these are native species of Clematis and much more beautiful then the puffed up cultivars a lot of people keep raving about imo.

Clematis catesbyana, South Carolina.

Clematis crispa, Illinois, South Carolina, endangered, swamp leatherflower.

Clematis occidentalis, Illinois, New Jersey, western blue virginsbower.

Clematis ochroleuca, South Carolina, New York, curlyheads, erect silky leather flower.

Clematis viorna, Illinois, South Carolina, eastern Pennsylvania, leatherflower, vasevine.

Clematis virginiana, Virginsbower Vine, New Jersey, South Carolina, Illinois.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Native Cypripedium orchids of Illinois.

Cypripedium acaule

.Cypripedium x andrewsii

Cypripedium candidum

Cypripedium parviflorum

Cypripedium reginae

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

So much to look up again! The little Bluets are from almost white to purple in color, but I think the flowers with the ladybug are something else. The flowers are even smaller. Should look at the leaves.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's probably a different species. I forgot about looking at the weed lists for the Carolinas with that other plant. I've gotten s few ID's that way. It's 55 outside right now.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I didn’t even know this website. Bookmarked it now though.

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Your German Knotweed is even up here! Ugh. I thought I had recognized that sprawling like plant before. The one recorded sighting only a few hundred yards from me. Interesting comment on the Mn Wildflowers site.

Interestingly a tincture of its essence is being marketed as a treatment for those suffering from indecision, lack of poise and balance. I can't decide if I should try it or not...


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't recall ever seeing German knotweed, but it could be easily overlooked if it was growing in turf or in a group of plants. You could learn how to make your own tinctures and save money. Supplements are a big ripoff. The marketers use fear to push their products. I just got a book about making tinctures. Stinging nettle tinctures are used in the same way, to balance and normalize the mind. Dandy, do you grow any Amelanchiers?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

First time I have seen it in my yard. If a weed is somewhere close on a map, I probably have it somewhere.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

More weeds, more caterpillars. I have to see if I can ID your plant with the white flowers.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I looked at all the Houstonia species that are native to South Carolina and the closest match I could find is Houstonia canadensis. I think the flower color is variable. Yours are plain white, some show pinkish colors. Take a look at the pictures and tell me what you think.

Houstonia canadensis



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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am going to dig one of them up. Hard to see anything in these tangles of weeds. Going to take some pictures of some of the messes out there so you yay feel sorry for me. Not really, but it’s way past the time to mow. It’s not pretty like a prairie kind of place.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I just read that the Gomphocarpus cancellatus seeds should germinate in a week. It's been at least 2 weeks. It says it's important to use fresh seeds. I don't know if mine were fresh? There are a couple places in the U. K. where you can buy seeds, but it sounds risky. One place is selling one fresh(?) seed for 1.25 pounds, and the other place is selling seed packets for 10 euros but they say they have no idea how many seeds are in a packet. I'll just have to try growing it again some other time. It's too late to start over now. It would be another 2 or 3 weeks before I'd get them. It's all good. I'm growing a bunch of other awesome milkweeds. It warmed up a lot, but now there are thunderstorms. It was already muddy out there.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Here it is. Could be? In a more scraggly way.

Do you think the picture below could be Widows frill? There was some in that area a few years ago, but it didn’t come back last year. Now there are about ten small plants looking like this


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

That’s a bummer about your seeds. If these people don’t know how many seeds are in a packet they probably don’t know if they are fresh either. Hopefully you will find a closer source.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I still say it's Houstonia canadensis. The other white flowered Houstonia species have very different leaves. I could put a heating pad under the bins and see if the warmth helps germination? I'll take a look at that grassy plant. I can blow up pics if I access this thread through my email.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



A new native for shade, Collisonia canadensis. It's in the mint family Lamiaceae. It's a host and food plant for many insects including some moth species. This plant also have a lot of medicinal value.

Collinsonia canadensis, Lamiaceae, Lamiales, stone root, richweed.


Range of Collinsonia canadensis.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/richweed.html

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm not sure about the other plant. It could be a grass or a lily. It might help to see the roots/bulbs.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This is another African milkweed I'd love to grow.

Asclepias albens

Asclepias albens

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am going to have to read up on all this tonight. Don’t worry about my grassy plant. I might still have a widows frill in another flower bed. If I can find it, I will just compare.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Have you ever noticed how many different kind of little purple flowers there are early Spring? Just two pictures of the state of the “lawn”.

I could probably spend hours on that weed website. Now some nicer pictures. First butterfly picture of the year

Wonder what flower the bee has gotten into.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Is that Glechoma in the second pic? It forms nice purple drifts and patches in my yard. What are the tiny flowers in that pic?

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Yes-I grow Amelanchiers, but not sure what kind. I would like to find some good ones with good flowers and fruit. The ones I have are not very attractive looking and grow slowly.

My 30 day wonders going in for nap today before getting covered over in the snowbank. It's been above freezing for the third day now and it rained about an inch to warm up the soil a little. The rectangular one on the left has four of your Milkweeds Jay. There's some evergreen Polymonium reptans on the ground in there too. One of my favorite spring bloomers. Something everybody should have.

Polymonium reptans


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Skip, I really don’t know what this all is. Well, I do know the clover. The little purple flowers look like this. More tiny purplish flowers with 4 petals.

I do know the dead nettle and henbit They just don’t usually get to be in this huge patches....

Dandy, this is looking great. Weird to look at snow. It was 75 degrees here today. Thunderstorms tonight and getting cooler again though. Going to have to look up the Polymonium, too.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Slowly going down the list of all the pictures. The Clematis viorna looks like one I have growing. Or at least very close. Can’t find a picture of mine to compare.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Do I understand it correctly that the purple field pansies are the only ones native? They are showing up by the dozens, so I thought I should look it up.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Is that a picture of an introduced field pansy or the native ones? They are in the Viola genus. Looks like Viola arvensis and Viola tricolor are the common introduced field pansies. They dont look consistently purple but can be purple. Viola bicolor aka Viola rafinesquii is the native purple one.


Anyone have dwarf cinquefoil (Potentilla canadensis) growing at their place? It was mentioned in a lawn alternative trial described here https://landscapearchitecturemagazine.org/2014/05/20/turf-trials-for-sustainable-lawns/

I was looking at pictures of the dwarf cinquefoil and it looks like it would fill the role ground ivy glechoma hederacae is occupying in my yard. Similar low stoloniferous growth habit between other clump forming plants.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It hopefully is the native one. Looking at picture of the plant you asked about, it looks familiar. Going to check in my yard tomorrow. Hopefully it’s not the same one, the one I have is a pain.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I would put the flower with the 4 petals on name that plant. They all love your yard over there lol. There's a lot of plants with 4 petals, especially in the mustard family.

Skip, I don't have any dwarf cinquefoil around here.Tennessee Wholsale Nursery sells them. The minimum amount of plants you can order is 25. That's awesome about it filling the role of ground ivy! I'm pretty sure I don't have any, but I'll be looking out for it. It isn't native here. It grows in Ohio and Missouri but not here. New Jersey is it's hotspot. It's probably growing close by. There was a species that looked identical that I would see around as a kid. It's possible it was the same species. All the land has been 'developed' in that area since.


Potentilla canadensis


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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

I have a couple of Potentillas growing in my yard areas but not sure what species they are. Those leaves sure look familiar tho. I thought the leaves on mine were strawberry, but I'm going to have to look closely this year and see if they have yellow flowers. But I believe in my case it would be P simplex, a similar type.

Those turf trials look really interesting. Sure would be nice if those lawns took hold here, esp with my next door neighbor.

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It's growing on me. I like it now!






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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The Potentilla I saw around here also had 5 leaflets so it had to be Potentilla simplex.

Potentilla simlex.

Potentilla simplex

Potentilla canadensis

Potentilla canadensis

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I have been searching for this plant for a long time. It has been at the top of the wanted list since the beginning. I just ordered 2 plants from Woodthrush Native Nursery.

Hieracium venosum


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I just looked. Mine are definetly the wild strawberries.

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Fragaria vesca

Fragaria vesca

Fragaria virginiana

Fragaria virginiana

Walssteinia fragaroides

Waldsteinia fragaroides

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I might have some wild strawberry but I also have the imposter mock strawberry Duchesnea indica

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have that one, too. Sometimes it feels it’s better not to look too closely around.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Interesting plants. I wasn't familiar with the Duchesnea.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Any idea what this is? Just saw it while I was looking for the other plants.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I have no idea what it is. It looks like something from outer space. I would put this and the plant with 4 petals on name that plant.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Does that feel a little prickly? It looks like my phlox subulata but the leaves dont look sharp enough

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Guess I should take out the ruler. I hope I don’t have to dig that one up.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I will check if it feels prickly.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s not prickly. It’s softer than I thought it would be. I took a bunch of pictures of plants I don’t know. Even had to think which of the many weeds with tiny purple flowers I wanted to take pictures of. Obviously I don’t know much. Going to try to figure some of them out myself before going to Name that Plant. Still want to read up on the stuff Jay posted pictures of. At least this will keep me too busy to browse plant catalogs. More little purple.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Figured the last picture out. Ivyleaf speedwell. I am on a roll!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That looks like a Veronica. I think it would help if you lifted the stems of that sprawling plant so we could see it from the other side. It looks matted down.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I think I might take that one to Name that plant. I browsed the NC weed website and the only one looking kind of like it there is Facelis. But I don’t see hair on mine. Edited to say maybe there is hair?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I would have guessed the shepards purse. I get those.












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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Packera obovata is supposed to be a good ground cover for shade.

Packera obovata, subtribe,Senecioninae, tribe, Senecioneae, supertribe, Senecionodae, subfamily, Asteroideae, family, Asteraceae, order, Asterales. ragwort.




http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/savanna/plants/rl_ragwort.html

North American range of Packera obovata.

Northern Metalmark Butterfly, Calephelis borealis

Calephelis borealis

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


http://mowildflowers.net/

Missouri Wildflowers sells Euphorbia corollata plants. They have some awesome vines and trees too! A couple native buckthorns. No red mulberry. A threatened Clematis, C. crispa. I have been tempted to get their yellow flowering Lonicera flava for a couple years. They have Erigeron pulchellus plants. Praire Moon was the only place selling seeds, and they've been out for 2 years.

Erigeron pulchellus, Robin's plantain.

Lonicera flava.

Frangula caroliniana, Carolina buckthorn.

Clinopodium arkansanum, calamint.

Berchemia scandens, native liana.

Carex erburnea, cedar sedge.

Arundaria gigantea, native bamboo.

Carex muskingumensis, palm sedge. I had 2 plants. They spread like crazy. New plants form at the ends of the leaves and root.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s the first time for me to have the Shepherds purse showing up. Of course it could have been in the lawn and mowed over before flowering before. Have a whole medicine cabinet out there it seems.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You get a lot of nice things too. It's very interesting getting all those different plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've had it coming up in the patio bricks. They make a lot of seeds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well, it’s supposed to stay dry the next week. That means my husband will probably mow next weekend. So there are tons of plans I probably will never know since they look like they would flower in Summer.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I like your pictures because there's always layers of other plants in the pictures.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thank you! And not exactly a lot of grass showing up in my lawn....

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Mine too.

So much for doing anything outside today lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Wow! Aren’t you getting tired of Winter?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Well, yes, but there's still 4 more weeks of guarenteed cold, which is good because I have a bin to sow that only needs 4 weeks lol. There's not enough snow to shovel and it's supposed to melt. I don't have any idea what species that plant is Iris. I had a couple Mexican Hats that were barely holding on, and they dissapeared right after I saw a deer staring at them!


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

There are still seeds left?! My Mexican hat did really well last year.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

A few last minute seeds. Hedeoma pulegoides, American pennyroyal and Cunila origanoides which is a good groundcover for dry shade.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I've often wondered if you could use a slit seeder to overseed a weed lawn to make it a little more lawn-like without killing everything first. I suspect my yard was never really properly seeded with grass because it is also completely a mixture of weeds and miscellaneous turf grasses.


Jay, was your palm sedge in wet area?


I filled another wheel barrow with japanese honeysuckle, osage orange, burning bush and multiflora rose yesterday. I pulled out some good size root crowns which felt like a win, but the carpet of honeysuckle vines is expansive. Its creeping all around my "lawn", now that Im looking around in the winter when nothing else is growing. I should be able to weaken the plants with all this pulling, then im going to spray it, I think its the only way to control this vine and the rest of the unwanted vegetation. I'll go around and place flags next to plants I want to keep like the boneset and cherry seedlings. Hopefully just a little short term pain for a longer term benefit.


Rose hips anyone? Notice these made it all the way through the winter and none of the birds or critters wanted them.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Is this a persimmon tree?


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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-I have the Euphorbia corollata but it has never reseeded and the flowers are so small I never remember to try to collect seed. I will make an effort to so this year. I also have one or two different naive Honeysuckle. I did get seed and sowed some of them so will have to wait and see if I get more.

Skip-what a great haul of trash you got out of there. The fruits of your labor will be evident in a short time. Those weed trees are so ugly when not leafed out. After I slewed most of those weeds here, in a few short years I had all kinds of new woodsy natives coming up. Things like Viburnum dentatum, Elderberry, Chokecherry, Black Cherry, Dogwood, spruce and fir.

Keep up the good work.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I like the Euphorbia corollata, but I wasn't looking for it. I thought maybe Iris was. If I had wanted seed they had plants at the near by tallgrass prairie.

The trunk could.maybe be persimmon but looks more like dogwood.

The palm sedge was in a regular mesic situation and it still did well. I removed 1 of the mature plants because I was getting so many volunteers. I ordered an Erigeron pulchellus plant, and a plant that I want to use in the backround of a woodland planting. Aralia spinosa, hercules club. The leaves are beautiful!




I saw a robin digging for food in a patch of crownvetch. I felt ashamed! Decided to do something! Maybe I can have the Smilax wind though it, on it's way up an oak.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This is new to me. Iodanthus pinnatifidus. A perennial in the mustard family. A nice native alternative to Hesperis matronalis, dame's rocket. It grows in shade and can take being flooded.

Iodanthus pinnatifidus, Cardamineae, Brasicaceae, Brasicales.



https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/purple_rocket.htm

Good to know all these plants in case one of us should decide to open a native nursery lol.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Skip, my persimmon is just about 4 feet tall, so not much to compare. Showed the pictures to my daughter, she is leaning toward dogwood since the branches on your tree seem to be opposite. Don’t hold her to it, it has been 3 years since she took the class. The few branches on my little tree are arranged like this.

Going to catch up a bit later on what Jay wants me to plant now....

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

A very old dogwood? The tree in my picture is at least 50ft tall, up in the canopy with the black locusts. It does look like a giant version of the dogwood seedlings I planted now that you mention it, as far as branch structure.


Jay did you order the Aralia spinosa from the Missouri wildflowers link you posted earlier? I was thinking about that one too, for a deer resistant plant.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Wow, I thought I answered this??? Yes Skip, I ordered the A. spinosa from Missouri Wildflowers. I like the quality of the things I get from them and there prices are reasonable.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Skip, it looks like you are making great headway. Hoping Jay’s weather cooperates to get things ready for all these seedlings. Dandy’s yard sounds about perfect already. Hope to see some pictures!

I found a bunch of the neighbor’s mimosa tree seedlings today. Thankfully they are down to four trees from the about 15 they had planted along the road. It also looks like my nightmare from last year is coming back. Lespedeza. L. cuneata, as identified on name that plant last year. There must be a hundred big ones on the property behind me, so I am probably going to fight them forever. What a pain to get out.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm hoping it keeps the deer around here away too. I also ordered a Erigeron pulchellus plant. That was hard to find. The Cunila seeds came in.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I hope the Lespedezas violacea and capitattas spread like weeds. We have an endagered Lespedeza, leptostachya. You can't get seeds for it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I read that the tallest flowering dogwoods can get is 40 ft. Persimmon bark is similar. I bet privets are harder to get rid of than Japanese honeysuckles.




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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well, of course I ended up with an invasive kind. And it is really bad. In the past 3 years it pretty much took out the blackberry brambles on the property behind me. And that’s something. Really cute flowers, the bees love it. The roots are terrible to dig out.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Skip’s tree should get leaves soon, right? The Name that Plant forum could probably tell with a picture of the buds.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Buxkeyes use Plantago species as hostplants for their caterpillars.

Plantago major. An invasive from Eurasia that is now covering the continent.

Plantago lanceolata. The other all too familiar non native invasive.

You can give P. major stripes and colors but it's still an unattracive invasive to me.

This is better, Plantago virginica. A true native Plantago.

Another native plantain, Plantago rhodosperma.

This species I would love to have,, Plantago cordota.

And also this species, Plantago patagonica.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I love the Erigeron plant. So pretty! When are you going to get your plants? I chose the first week of April for pretty much all my orders so far. Should probably have spread it out a bit. The plantains in my yard are looking really happy. There are a lot though. Still waiting for the weeds that look like cutweed (both green and silvery) to flower. Hopefully Ms Sherry will follow up on the Name that Plant forum, so I can compare to whatever I have.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I told them May 1st. I'll already have several plants needing planted at that point lol. I wanted to order the Lonicera flava too, but they only sell it in Sept. I want an Aronia melancarpa. Maybe I'll get that and the prunus serotina at the native plant sale. I do like the Erigeron a lot! I'm glad I have it now.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Lawns hold down property and keep it from blowing away which would be a threat. It would be easier if dirt didn't blow but it does so you need lawns which brings weeds and critters and allergies! Of course keep the lawn closely cropped so even the smallest grasshhopper can't visit unseen and also it will keep any nasty weeds from flowering and spreading pollen everywhere. Now, let's get 400 tulip bulbs and 20 pounds of rat poison???

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

At least I already have the chokeberry and cherry, so I am not tempted! My cherries are about to flower. Hope the expected frost doesn’t kill the flowers.

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I'm sorry for tempting you. Actually, I think every time I do though I buy something myself.lol I don't think there are any more nurseries left. Did you order the Erigeron? lol. There's an Erigeron species that's a thug weed at my old garden. It can get 4 feet tall and choke everything. I need to eradicate it comepletely. And now I'm going out of my way to grow a couple other Erigerons lol. I remember way back thinking that Missouri Wildflowers might be my last hope with a plant and here I am! I did get seeds for a similar looking Erigeron as a backup. Erigeron formosissimus.

Erigeron pulchellus Geum triflorum

Erigeron formosissimus

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

That erigeron is pretty. I dont think ill have to wait long to see if my mystery tree flowers like a dogwood.

You should have heard my wife trying to convince me to remove my little bluestem and baptisia from around the phlox subulata to "neaten" it up, and plant a butterfly bush she saw at sams club. Shes saying my front garden is going to hurt resale value. Even though we're not planning to move for like 30 years. Umm no, not a chance! Not gonna happen!

But gotta have that perfect lawn, clipped barberry, lime colored ball shaped bush, and a wheeping japanese maple (with a straight trunk) for curb appeal!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am still waiting for an answer from Pine Ridge about what plants they will have from my wishlist before ordering more. The purple flowers look familiar. Like something I had in my yard last year and meant to identify. Had a lot of daisy looking white ones, too.

My neighbor went after his myrtles with a chainsaw today. Around here it’s called “crape murder”. Seems all the landscapers are still doing this, too. Makes me cringe.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My roommate has become nocturnal. I'm going to redo everything while he's asleep. In the Missouri Wildflowers catalog they showed another way to create a bed. You cover the area you want to plant with plastic, then put mulch on top and wait for the grass to die. You can plant right through the mulch if you want. I have a big barberry and 2 lime colored ball shaped bushes. Only for a few more weeks....( biochar ).

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Skip, what's left over after you rip out the jhs vines? Are there a lot of cut stubs that need herbicide applied to them? Is it mostly the one type of vine or more than 1 species of plant that you're pulling out?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The only thing my husband complains about is more circles to mow around when I plant more trees. Plus I need to keep his landing strip clear (he didn't fly his model plane in 2 years, but hopes to do so eventually). He also stood there complaining when I whacked away on a big privet a few years ago. He thinks they are pretty and smell nice. Now I cut them down as soon as I see them, problem solved.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Wow! I didn't know you had your own airfield too.lol! A plane would come in handy for me and my plant searches . I could cover a lot more ground haha! Drop missile plugs! :)>


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha. They are not that big. He does have a drone, too. Got in trouble with me for crash landing that in my flower bed.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, the Carex muskingunensis, palm sedge did well with average rainfall and it went into overdrive when there was a lot of rain. I had to keep pulling it back from nearby plants.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I just wrote a big long post with a picture and it didnt post. Anyway, theres a lot left to do, lots more poison ivy, a mature burning bush, norway maple tree, and honey suckle sprouts. Some thick woody vine with smooth bark. A potential tree of heaven sapling on the far side of the ditch I have to sneak over and ID. I am pulling alot of the JHS but it will just come back from root fragments, the roots snap off pretty easily which is why i think im going to have to spray it when it starts growing back. Also this mock orange is coming up everywhere, which isnt the worst thing in the world, but still might get in the way.


I just sowed another tray 15 plugs Eragrostis spectabilis and 23 plugs Chasmanthium laxum. I have another tray of 38 cells then Im all out of trays. Im going to do 6 hypericum prolificum, 2 Sorghastrum nutens, 15 elymus hystrix, 15 panicum oligosanthes. So if everything I sowed comes up i will have 21 trays of plants= 780 plugs and 12 4" pots. Plus 3 milk jugs. I have a few more decorative pots for tropical milkweed, Nassella tenuissima, and sensitive plant. Then Im going to try direct seeding some Echinacea 'prairie splendor' so there are pretty compact flowers that bloom forever and my wife cant complain that im growing a bunch of small flowered weeds.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

And, that's a short comment lol. I wrote about 3 long comments today and lost them too! I have 3 mature burning bushes to knock off, make that 4. The Wiegelia and the burning bush at the old garden have to go along with the 2 butterfly bushes if they survived. I didn't get any germination on the Mimosa pudica seeds. They were collected from my plant. Hopefully the ones you have are better but don't hold any high hopes. Sounds like a lot of grasses. I do want to expand colonies of the no mow ones everywhere. Is that a fragrant Philodelphus ?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I read about surrounding plants with grasses to fool deer into leaving them alone, and if they colonize thats good by me.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip,I think it's cool that instead of planting buddleias you're planting an Aralia spinosa! Using all these species; it's kinda like terraforming a planet, except it's a yard. Having such an effect on the wildlife that will come is very awesome.

I'm guessing your mock orange is Philadelphus inodorus, because it's the only species native there, and it's name answers the other question about it being fragrant. It's not! Somebody once said " A mock orange with no scent isn't worth the ground it's growing in lol"!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)












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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)


It could Philadelphus coronarius which has denticulate or dentate leaf margins, where P. inodorus has entire leaf margins.

https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/species/philadelphus/inodorus/

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I know you live in that general southwest corner by the state, but is coronarius shown to be in your county on the map? I wonder if they hybridize? I look at the leaves of both species and then compare them to yours, but they all look kind of similar it's not easy telling the 2 species apart by the leaves.

https://www.growingwildnursery.com/products/asclepias-lanceolata

You all must buy this plant asap lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I wish! I looked for it since you first put it in my head. Let me know if you find plants somewhere. Unless you buy the whole stock first.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I wouldn't grow the lanceolata and rubra even if I could find plants. I've got enough things swinging already. I just think they are 2 of our most beautiful native Asclepias species, and that no one I can possibly think of deserves to be growing them more than you or Skip, Iris. I just met somebody close by who wants amplexicaulis and quadrifolia too. We're teaming up lol!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I signed up to be notified when they come back in stock!


Jay my county is lit up light blue for P. coronarius on that Bonap map. Im in the southern part of the county. It could have been planted on purpose at some point too, its right on the property line.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You never smelled any sweet frangrance wafting off of them? It's weird that a scentless one and the other known for frangrance would be growing so close together. These are all plants from the thicket between properties? We had a mock orange bush when I was a kid. My dad would hack it back so far it rarely bloomed. It smelled nice.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



















He who asks is given! He who seeks finds! The door is opened for him who knocks!


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I dont recall a scent but it might be scented. Yes there are a lot of plants in that thicket.

Here is is last year june 9th before the fence went in. The mock orange is visible on the far left but is has spread. I cant even tell 1/2 of what is in there


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It looks nicer from a distance when you don't know it's all made up of invasive weeds. I like the layout, the way it flows, the way you decided to mow it, whatever. I see lots of potential. I'd love to have that large an area to work with! Do you think the mock orange vollunteered or do you think it was planted there on purpose?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, you would be able to pass on a milkweed if you find one available? That’s remarkable self restraint!

Skip, I love your area there!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes Iris, I would! And then directly afterwards I would make some insane, totally, self indulgent purchase to make up for it lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

On the bright side, one of us might have seeds for you!

I ripped out about half a wheelbarrow full of my Frog Fruit. Love that plant, but it is certainly going for world domination. It is also taking over on the lawn side. I don’t mind that at all.

I found dozens of tiny seedlings in one area of a flower bed. All I had growing there last year were Rue, Frostweed, Zinnia, Goldenrod and a Hairy Balls milkweed. These seedlings don’t look any like that. Remind me, I don’t know, of lily? calla lily? Odd. But why am I still surprised about weird stuff popping up?


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes, could be those. Some kind of monocot, grasses and spiderworts. Did the Monarch cats eat your Gomphocarpus? It's interesting to watch a garden come to life in South Carolina. Thank you!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, the pokeweeds are native lol! Everything looks hazy. Hard to see individual species, but if those spaces were filled with your new plants it would be awesome!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I read Skip's link and the 'scentless' mock orange P. inodorus actually has a strong fragrance that attracts bees. So why did they call it that???

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It was actually the favorite for them in my garden. And the least favorite for the aphids. Hope I will have some volunteers. Wait a month for my South Carolina garden to come to life. Currently there are just aphids sucking the life out of my Iris. Yes, not native. But come on, with a name like this I do have to have some.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I hope to replace a lot of this stuff with new plants. Theyre not going to go down without a fight lol.

Here. I cropped a section from the picture I posted before, theres the suspected tree of heaven on the left and the japanese honeysuckle flowering top center.


Iris I appreciate the pictures you post too, I always find that i am more intrigued by the plants that just show up more than the ones that are carefully planted. My goal is to get all my plants naturalizing and then let them spread where they like (to an extent). A little sad I have to reintroduce all these natives to compete with the weeds. In the Larry Weaner book he talks about how the ironweed he planted in his client's yard ended up an acre away invading the edge of the neighbors lawn, Im secretly hoping for something like that to happen here.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I do have two mock oranges. They have been there forever. Never been taken care of, but flowering their hearts out every year. They are not that tall though. Maybe around 7 feet. I am also leaving some Pokeweeds every year in out of the way parts. I always had a soft spot for them. Then I read “The Humane Gardener”. There was a passage about a migrating bird just about starving and tired. Kind of like the Pokeberry saved him. That sealed it.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Does your suspected tree of heaven smell bad? I have one coming up every year and it honestly stinks when I cut it. The Frogfruit already made it about 4 feet out of the flower bed and into the grass. Getting the mower on a high setting (as usual) it should even be fine flowering there.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I leave pokeweed, virginia creeper. and out of the way poison ivy vines in place. I pulled that poison ivy off the tree the other day because there is about 3 feet between the tree and the fence to walk through and I dont want to accidentally get poison ivy on my face while walking by. At this point the pokeweed is out of control, its like a pokeweed hedge, the birds are going to be sick of the stuff! I have to remove some of it this year. I plan to replace it with native fruit bearing shrubs and perennials at least.


Edit: I havent attacked that one yet. I had one a similar size on the other side of the yard and I dug it out roots and all then threw it on top of the brush pile so it would completely dry out and die. It had a faint smell but I have heard they can get really smelly. Theyre called stinkweed around here. That is one you should go nuclear on. Let it grow all season, then late summer when it is sending resources to the roots to store for winter, cut it down and paint the stump with concentrated brush killer.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

https://www.humanegardener.com/pokeweed-please-forgive-me/

Hope this link works. Ever see the moth around?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My phone is all I use, so the resolution is usually very good but I'd need a better screen to see for sure if those are the distinctive 'thumbs' at the bases of the suspected ailanthus tree. I think I'll let a few pokeberries grow if I haven't comepletely destroyed them. Huge warmup starting tomorrow.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think you would know if you smelled tree of heaven. It's a very unpleasant smell, like nothing else.




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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am not so sure. The one that always comes back in my yard really stinks. There was one questionable one (in case it is smooth Sumac) that didn’t smell so bad. Is there a male/ female thing with these trees?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have never seen the pokeweed moth in your link Iris, although i will be on the lookout for one this year. I thought pokeweed was a relatively poor host plant but that is a worthy moth.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I remember when Iris had a picture of the cat on her pokeweed. I couldn't believe it was a host plant for anything either. There's an Asian pokeweed, Phytolacca something. Mountain Gardens sells it. It must have some medicinal value. I'll stick with the native pokeweed, in moderation.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

There are male and female plants for tree of heaven. One of them is known to sucker a lot more, although i don't recall which. Some claim to have ones that dont spread, but I drive by a few patches of it everyday, one completely grew up through a hydrangea to 10ft tall in 1-2 years, the other took over a whole embankment clonally.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)











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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Native Angelica species. I just think they are cool and I like them also because they are swallowtail host plants. There are 24 species of native Angelicas. Most are in the west. 1 species A. lucida occurs in both the east and west. A. lauentiana is found in eastern Canada. The 4 U.S. eastern species are Angelica atropurpurea, A. venenosa, A. dentata,and A. triquinata.



Angelica atropurpurea



Angelica venenosa



Angelica atropurpurea



Angelica venenosa



Angelica atropurpurea



Angelica venenosa


Range of Angelica atropurpurea


Range of Angelica venenosa

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/wetland/plants/grt_angelica.html

https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ANVE



Angelica triquinata, Pennsylvania south to South Carolina, west into Kentucky, Tennessee.


Angelica dentata, Florida, Georgia

I'm not trying to tempt anyone into getting more plants, but if I should discover some great new specimen species............

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I grew Aralia spinosa years ago, and it did very well so I'm not worried about hardiness. I had gotten rid of it because I didn't want a colony. Never got over how beautiful it was. Now, I'd love a colony!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I think you have a lavender culver's root plant don't you? How does your's do? My plant never gets bigger in size. I thought maybe with your longer growing season, the clumps might spread more.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Dang. I must have forgotten to hit the submit button last night telling the story of my suspicions sumac/ tree of heaven. This one did not smell. Too small to flower, so I assumed sumac. There were some sort of tent caterpillars on it last Summer. Nobody here could identify them, so I put a few of the chrysalis in a cage to see what comes out of them.

pretty moth, but the hostplant is listed as tree of heaven. I found some reports of people saying they had them on Sumac, but I didn’t really trust that. The tree is gone now. Was actually kind of fun detective work figuring this all out.

Jay, going to look into your latest plants a bit later.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The Culver’s root is one of the plants I ordered for this Spring.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Santa rosa gardens is selling pink muhly grass for $7 right now but I read it probably wont flower nicely up here, so I will just see what comes of the seeds I planted.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Pink Flamingo was the Muhly cultivar that wasn't hardy for me. I'm not worried about the capillaris. I was thinking of getting splitbeard bluestem from SRG but I have enough grasses and sedges for now. I'd still like to get a couple lavender culver's root plants, Cupid and Fascination. They are key to the hellstrip planting, if there is a hellstrip planting lol!!! You can divide Veronicastrums. I've sort of neglected my white flowered one. That's probably why it's not a bigger clump. I've had that plant for decades. I never planted it. It blew in as a seed on the wind. Hey, Iris, did you order the Erigeron pulchellus? lol


'Pink Flamingo' Muhlenbergia rigens × capillaris.



Muhlenbergia capillaris.


Range of Muhlenbergia capillaris.


Muhlenbergia rigens.

Range of Muhlenbergia rigens.



Veronicastrum 'Cupid'.



Veronicastrum 'Fascination'.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The flowers on the Fascination are absolutely beautiful. Love the two tone. That’s not one I ordered, isn’t it? Starting to loose track....

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha, never mind. I did!

you don’t think the wizards on the Name the Plant forum could do anything with the tiny seedlings I posted here yesterday, do you? Pulled weeds in the same area again today, I swear there are even more! That can’t be good.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Try cutting the weeds at the ground if you can Iris. Every time you pull a plant and disturb the soil more seeds will germinate. If you have some one-handed shears that would probably be about as easy as hand pulling. Leave the dead plant in place as mulch unless it is rose or something stoloniferous that will root down wherever its left.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Will try that! These things are just in one area of a flower bed so far. It has been under water a couple of times since last Fall, maybe these seeds came down all the way from the road? Edited to show a picture of a leaf underside. Looks kind of sparkly.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I looked at a lot of images of little seedlings. Watch it be asiatic dayflower. I am sure I am going to miss some, so probably going to find out eventually.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have no aptitude for IDing seedlings, hopefully it is something that isn't a nuisance.

I found a nice graphic for garden design, basically adapted from "Planting in a Post Wild World"


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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Let me rant. I'm not so sure those purple Culvers Roots are such a good idea. AFAIK, nature didn't intend them to be beauty queens! The only ones I've ever seen are white, and that's the way it will be here anyway.

Hope they don't turn out like those designer coneflowers that have anemic dna that prevents them from ever being anything but sicklings in nature.

Supposed to be in the 50's here in a few days. The first time since last October.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Dandy, glad it is warming up. I guess I will see how they do. It’s worth a try for me.

Skip, I have always good intentions following a diagram when planting. My first problem is believing the labels. Seems the plants never stay the size they say. plus I am so often coming back two years later and expand the beds at the edges. So my low border plants are not anywhere near the border.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oh boy! I am going to check on that.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I really like the widow’s cross sedum. Wonder if this would grow well next to the driveway. There is a lot of gravel in the soil. Already saw the first tent caterpillars today. Poor tree is just starting to get some leaves.

Jay, hope you are doing well and are busy with your seedlings. Or the weather is nice enough to whack away on some invasives. Missed new ideas for plants with my coffee this morning. Studied Skip’s graphic instead, so all is good.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I havent stuck to the garden design in the graphic either, but I think I have put all the pieces in place to let the plants sort it out in time.

Hope Jay is just catching up on sleep or something.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

This is a picture of a corner from May 2016. Good intentions with planting them by height. This was the second year for most of these plants. It doesn’t look anything like this now. Remind me to take a picture in May.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Looks lke dayflower. I'm not buying the lavender Veronicastrum. I'm sticking with the white. I have that book with the graphic. I was looking at Trilliums. Illinois has 4 native ones, New Jersey has 4, and South Carolina has 17. They have one species that occurs in only a remote area in the state. There is this other species that's native only to Illinois and Minnesota. It's Trillium nivale, the snow Trillium. This Trillium spreads by rhizomes. I dug out 3 shrubs and now I have a vision. With all these species, awesome!!!




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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm pretty much done with getting plants. I still want to get a prunus serotina and a couple ribes species for the birds and they are host plants for Commas. I want to get a Collinsonia canadense plant from Mountain gardens becuase it's a great plant for shade.


https://youtu.be/sbJgk7kikFM

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

Jay-make a note to send me email later in Spring and I will find the Black Cherry for you.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Remember the plantain pictures I posted not long ago? A lot of them are flowering now.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I will have a look at your weeds, but first I want to talk about lavender Veronicastrum virginicums. I've looked everywhere and haven't been able to find any information anywhere regarding the origin of the lavender color. A lot of times, a remote population of a plant species will morph into a new expression over time. That's usually the story behind many of the grass cultivars. There is a variation of one of our native anemonellas. It has fully double flowers. It naturally evolved to look like that. Now, I have serious doubts as to the lavender Veronicastrum cultivars being truly native. There is a European species, Veronicastrum siberica that just so happens to have that lavender color. Virginicum and sibericum are almost identical in every other way. I'm thinking possible alien genes. I like the white spikes. They are like the bright torches that you follow in with your eyes when you look at a prairie. When you color the white spikes purple, that whole beautiful effect is lost. I passed the test.


Anemonella thalictroides 'Shoaf's Double Pink'. Created entirely by Mother Nature. (without humans).


Veronicastrum sibericum. Look familiar? I am a bit curious about why the 'Cupid' flowers look so full and wide. I don't see it in the true species.


Veronicastrum sibericum. If you fear you might have a Culver's root with alien genes (sibericum, no doubt) don't worry, just keep it, it's close enough, the bees will thank you. You just don't know who to trust these days with so many ruthless people selling plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Wow, a Plantago! Now you really have my interest. Let's get dowm to business because it may be one that I want! lol Looks a bit like P. rhodosperma.

Plantago, 23 native species. 6 alien invasive species. 8 species of Plantago are native to South Carolina. Two invasive, non native species also occur.

South Carolina native Plantago

P. aristata

P. elongata

P.heterophylla

P. patagonica

P. sparsiflora

P. rugelii

P. virginica

P. wrightiana

Non - Native invasive Plantago

P. lanceolata

P. major

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Plantago virginica. It looks like a match to me Iris. This species is fuzzy, hairy. I went out of my way to find seeds for this so I could grow it for the Buckeyes, and you just get it popping up in your yard for free. I was actually looking to grow the beautiful Plantago patagonica. I still haven't found seeds for patagonica but I've gotten a couple other nice, native plantains during that search. Your 'weed' was one of them.


Plantago virginica.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, there are 4 native Commelina species. 3 are native to South Carolina. They are

Commelina virginica

Commelina diffusa

Commelins erecta

There are 6 non- native, invasive species of Commelina. Of these C. communis is the worse. I have started growing the true native ones in an effort to preserve them. In the wild all our native Commelinas are in danger of being hybidiized out of existence by Commelina communis. I'm growing Commelina virginica and the more western species Commelina dianthifolia, bird's bill dayflower. These are the non - native, invasive Commelinas.....

C. arenaria

C. coronopus

C. floccosa

C. lanceolata

C. major

C. media

C. signature

.The texture of the leaf and the ribbing means it has to be something in the dayflower family, Commelinaceae. Moving up the scale these plants share a common ancestry with the grasses, the lilies and the orchids. Whether it's a Commelina or a Tradescantia species is hard to say. You seem to have a species richness in everything down there Iris, plants, butterflies, ect. No telling what kinds of seeds could have washed in with the recent rains. A dayflower (?) leaf for comparison.....




Veronicastrum virginicum, the true species.



Veronicastrum virginicum.



Plantago rhodosperma.



Commelina virginica. Commelina communis flowers lack the 3rd lower petal.



Commelina dianthifolia, bird's bill dayflower. There was another Commelina species I couldn't find seeds for. It's commelina erecta. I did find something else called erecta though. Trillium erecta. Yeah, outstanding, I couldn't pass them up. I might need to join a 12 step program lol!


Trillium erecta, well named! Don't miss that new orange, over the top daylily. You have to have it! In that lumpy, moundy border? Hostas are edible. The new shoots anyways.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This is a look to see what Aralia spinosa will look like in the landscape. At the bottom are a couple plants that I want to use along with the Aralia spinosa as the back of a border. The other 2 plants I was thinking of using are Amorpha fruricosa and Prunus serotina. The picture of the black cherry is about the ultimate height I would want mine to reach. I wish it didn't get so tall. It's value as a butterfly host plant make it worth the hastle. I'd like to get a couple more Aralia spinosas.








https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/trees/plants/devil_ws.html








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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was wanting more plants that would be great for wildlife. I came up with 2 native Ribes species.


Ribes americanum, Grossulariaceae Saxifragales, American black currant.




http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/wetland/plants/wb_currant.htm


Grey Comma Butterfly



Grey Comma Butterfly



Green Comma Butterfly



Green Comma Butterfly


Ribes missouriense, Grossulariaceae, Saxifragales, wild gooseberry. The deer probably keep their distance lol!





http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/savanna/plants/ms_gooseberry.htm

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Trillium oostingii. Native to only a small section of South Carolina. Discovered in 2002.


Trillium oostingii, Melanthiacaceae, Liliales.




https://www.jfowlerphotography.com/?p=686

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I guess I will find out what kind of dayflower I have soon enough. I probably missed a bunch taking the seedlings out. I am not worried about planting the purple veronicastrum. Guess I will see how it does. I read an article last year (Xerces society maybe?). They did a study about what the pollinators preferred. For the most part, they went straight for the native plants instead of cultivars. One exception was veronicastrum, They preferred the Lavendelturm. Going to look this up again.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I did get upset when I first heard about the lavender cultivars/nativars. I thought wow, these daylily/hosta people even have to alter our beautiful natives before they grow them. They never can just leave anything alone,they always have to tweak their plants! I've had it with lawns and these retarded plantings covering the whole 'civilized' world!!! Meaning no offense to all of us already growing purple Veronicastrums, yes I sowed seeds for them too, and I intend on growing and keeping them ( for the purpose of research) lol!









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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Agastache foeniculum

Agastache foeniculum

Agastache rugosa

Agastache rugosa.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have the Veronicastrum virginicum 'lavender towers' aka 'lavendelturm'. Although the color last year was a very light purple, not like the photos. I also read it is preferred by pollinators over the white ones. I have it right next to a viburnum, some Agastache scrophulariifolia, and some straight species Rudbeckia laciniata. I'll observe it over the years, but my feeling is if it can compete with these plants and serve pollinators, then it has strong genetics.


Oh and my Agastache foeniculum was also very pale purple, I wish the color was as saturated as those photos.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I remember you said you were growing it. It would be cheaper to buy a couple white ones at the native plant sale with my discount and I'll still have the lavender ones ready to bloom next year. It was either Cupid or Fascination, but I couldn't find one of them for less than $17 and that was before shipping. I'd rather use the money towards my Mountain Gardens bareroot purchase if that ever goes down lol! They have ginseng plants too. I claim neutral territory on the lavendelturm issue! I will share stoneroot seeds with those who crave them!

Mountain Gardens Wish List

Aletris farinosa, Apios priceana, Collinsonia canadense, Panax quinquefolius. That will complete my plant orders until next time! It's really muddy outside. The soil all around here is already compacted pretty bad. If you cut down a black walnut, will the juglone in the roots persist or will it break down once the tree dies?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, why did you decide to grow the Ipomoea pandurata from seed? I know you don't like using seeds, but maybe you were thinking " how could I possibly mess up morning glories" lol. They sell plants. How's your seedling doing btw? There will be a culling in the basement. I can't possibly keep them all. There's another perennial Ipomoea that's a western species. They call it man root too and it has purple flowers.


Ipomoea leptophylla

Range of Ipomoea leptophylla

Range of Ipomoea pandurata

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The juglone will remain, but it will break down faster in highly aerated soils with a lot of organic matter. Wet, clay, compacted or heavy soil will hold the juglone longer.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The 3 shrubs I dug out were on the south side in front of the sunroom. I want to put a bed in there and have it run around and connect to where the ferns are on the east side. . There are just 2 burning bushes still there that I need to dig out. I know they have a lot of fibrous roots close to the surface, but they probably have main, bigger roots going deeper. I'll try to take pictures next time. There's a small rolling hill all along the property. I'd like to mix clumps of sedges and grasses along there with taller plants at the top like A. spinosa and A. fruticosa and then working down from there into smaller plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

A tree, and a bird!


Castanea dentata, Fagaceae, Fagales, American chesnut. It's estimated that between 3 and 4 billion trees were killed by the chesnut blight in the 1st half of the 20th century.

Was this tree a host plant for a lot of insects? Did those insects feed exclusively on Castenea or on other species too. How many creatures depended on the nuts?













Ectopistes migratorius, Passenger Pigion. They were once so numerous they darkened the skies. The very last passenger pigion, Martha, died in 1914 at the Cinccinati zoo. She was 28 or 29 years old. People found them easy to club and eat as the sat in the American chesnut branches, and of course a lot of people made money off of these easy to harvest birds. Like always, too little, too late as far as bringing anything back you know!





Sorry we never got the pleasure to have met!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I didn’t find any plants. Well, I did at Almost Eden, but they could not ship it to me because of the sweet potato weevil quarantine. My lonely seedling is still alive and seems to be doing well.

Love hearing the different opinions about keeping it just the native color and such. I am certainly guilty. Never bought any of these double decker coneflowers. I don’t like the look and figured the pollinators would have trouble getting through all these ruffles. I do have different colors of bee balm in addition to the wild bergamot. And with names like “purple rooster”, they didn’t just pop up in nature by themselves. I have gotten pretty strict with trees and shrubs. Might push the native range one state over. I do have perennials that are native further away. Like the Asclepias latifolia. When California poppy shoved up in my yard two years ago, I didn’t get rid of it either (never looked up the range for that one though).

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, you are right. I thought etsy was selling pandurata plants but it turns out they were seeds. If you get any seeds can I have some? For next year. I already have the Cynanchum and Apios vines for this year. Your seedling looks healthy. I have no problem whatsoever with nativars. Those are native plants with special variations which includes the Veronicastrum. It's the non native species I don't like. Like all the plants in almost everone's front yards!!!


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


I'm going to girdle my 13.000 buckthorns and 17.000 Morus albas, then finish 'em off later!!!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I was thinking about getting the Monarda fistulosa 'Claire Grace' cultivar, this is a selected plant that grows true from seed and has superior resistance to powdery mildew and drought, which cant be a bad thing! Then I thought about it and dont know where I could plant it and let it spread... so i will probably leave that idea on the shelf for now.

Jay you could girdle them and leave the trunks standing as snags for extra habitat space depending on where they are and how big. Then grow your choice of vines up them.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

If I do get seeds, I will send you plenty. Given how much trouble I had getting one to grow. Of course it was probably just me.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'll probably get them all cut down over time. Would be nice if I could find a cheap and easy way to turn them into biochar. There's a lot of wood laying around here already. I'm hoping if I move the Smilax vine next to a tall oak it will climb it. I want to divide my pipevine and plant a piece here, next to the shed.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think the Monarda bradburiana does better in shade.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Take pictures along the way! I love to see pictures of progress and new seedlings/ plants. Is there such a thing as a hairy tick trefoil? Or trefoil of any kind? Still stumbling across new plants/ weeds every day.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm not sure what it is but I hope it's Acmispon americanus.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Jeffersonia diphyllum, twinleaf


Jeffersonia diphyllum


Jeffersonia dubia, Asian twinleaf


Jeffersonia dubia

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I suppose I will keep an eye on that one, too. Loosing track. Saw just the one in the flower bed, but who knows what is in the grass.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It looks interesting, whatever it is lol. Fabaceae is the plant family most often used by butterflies as host plants.


Acmispon americanus, American Birdsfoot Trefoil.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acmispon_americanus


IT'S NOT A CALI PLANT!

I'm just wishfully thinking. It might turn out to be a sweet clover lol. The only Astilbe color I like is white. That's the flower color of the native Astilbe biternata. Also known as false goatsbeard.


Astilbe biternata, false goatsbeard.




Range of Astilbe biternata.


The other native Astilbe. Astilbe crenatiloba. Very rare and restricted. Roan mountain false goatsbeard. Actually presumed extinct. Hasn't been seen since 1885. What's in the picture then??? It only grew on one mountain in Tenessee. May have been a subspecies of A. biternata but noone knows for sure.


Range of Astibe crenatiloba. A vast overestimate. It only grew on one mountain.

https://www.earth.com/earthpedia/plant/sv/astilbe-crenatiloba

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Huh. I googled the plant and all I could find was California (or at least very far west) Even the Discover Life and I Naturalist were not helpful. Isn’t it weird sometimes?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I planted panicled Tick trefoil as a host plant. All I got so far were these gummy worm looking sawfly larvae.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I still don't know what species of legume your weed is Iris. Maybe it will be easier in a few days. I don't think it's a clover or a Lespedeza.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The sawfly larvae look like good food for birds to me!


I just got out and cut back all the stems from last years perennials and dumped them in the back of the yard. There are going to be a lot of agastache seedlings. All those stems are tougher than I expected too. I saw what I thought were a ton of grass blades coming up in the general area around a clump of achillea milifolium I planted last year, but on closer inspection, it is the achillea spreading like sod! The rudbeckia lacianata is already growing back and sending up new leaves from runners too... I might have created a monster!


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm hoping for any Agastaches I can get. It's been years since I had a healthy plant and the same goes for Monarda citriodora, (which I've never had) I don't know if I'll have time to mess with butterfly cages this year Iris. It's a lot of work. I don't think javi is going to be able to keep up either now that she has all those new host plants lol. Joe Hollis said that you can harvest and use R. lacianata just like Echinacea. The roots that is. The Native Americans used it that way, so it can probably be kept in check by yearly harvesting. You could use the lacianata as a buffer instead of the Amelanchiers lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha, sounds good to me. How long have you had the rudbeckia lacianata? I mentioned somewhere not long ago how well behaved my ashy sunflower is compared to the others. Looking at it yesterday, I was very wrong.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I started the R. laciniata from seed and planted them last year. I should've known I was in trouble when one of them actually grew enough to flower.

What use are the roots Jay? What preparation?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have never raised caterpillars in cages. I am not planning to start now. Unless it is some unidentified caterpillar and I really want to find out what it turns into. It’s a rough world out there. This little weevil larvae didn’t stand a chance. I know weevils are bad news, but they are awfully cute.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Wow, Skip. I want to see it in its third year.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

https://youtu.be/aBJncaj1ZPM

This should answer your questions Skip. Start eating them! Well, maybe not. You dry the roots, chop them up, and brew a tea from them. It will boost the immune system, help with migrains and inflammation. The Cherokee Indians ate the plants as greens after cooking for a long time. I grew a double flowered laciniata plant once. It was a beautiful plant for the little while I had it. I saw that one coming lol!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Well, I've noticed that the smart guys like Doug Tallamy and Anurag Agweral who write these books. They don't use butterfly cages. I'm thinking that's the best way to go, let nature take it's course, and besides, using cages can be nerve racking when you get walloped with Monarch cats. I'll have so many milkweeds squeezed together nothing will be able to get to those cats lol!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I forgot to mention a new sedge, Carex texensis. Why do people still grow and mow lawns??? Want to see something truly mindblowing. Go look up Carex on bonap and scroll, scroll, scroll!


Carex texensis






Range of Carex texensis.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Sedge is quite expensive if you have to plant them by plug. Even seed is expensive and bulk availability is limited, and it might not germinate easily. A 50-cell tray of Pennsylvania sedge is $107.50 from Izel, and its supposed to be planted 10" apart, so if you convert to sq ft (10"x10")/(12"x12"), 1 plug covers .6944sq ft. I was thinking about planting it in the strip along the fence, an area 114'x3' = 342sq ft

342 ÷ .6944 = 492 plugs. So $107.50 × 10 trays of 50 is $1075. I know of a cheaper source where it $1.20/plug but thats still $600.

This is where I start fantasizing about setting up a (another) hoop house to propagate them myself.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It would still be cheaper to have another hoop house, and you'd have future use of it. I'm just starting to wrap my head around sedges, they are amazing.

I'm looking for 2 weed species, Gamochaeta purpurea and Gamochaeta pensylvanica, Pennsylvania and Purple Cudweed. I want them for the Lady caterpillars , but I can't find seeds anywhere, and they are weeds!!!


Gamochaeta pensylvanica, Gnaphalieae, Asteraceae, Asterales, Pennsylvania cudweed, a South American species that has naturalised in North America. Who's the genious that named it lol?


Range of Gamochaeta pensylvanica. I was under the impression this was a North American native, especially with a name like pensylvanica. It turns out to be a species native to South America that has naturalized here. What is everyone's opinion on growing this as a host plant? I don't view Central and South American species in the same light as species that originate from other continents. This all makes me want to grow the G. purpurea even more. In the annuals department I try to grow only annuals native to the Americas like Cosmos, Tithonia, Zinnia, ect. The pentas(Egyptian stars) are out. I'll have more than enough natives to fill their spots. I like talking about plants. I'm not trying to get anyone to buy any more, but I have to keep talking about them. Creating a whole ecosystem from scratch takes a lot of planning. I want to keep profiling species in order to reach a conclusion about the best plant options for a part woodland area. Also if we all bought every plant I talked about we'd be bankrupt in no time lol!


Gamochaeta purpurea, Gnaphalieae, Asteraceae, Asterales, purple cudweed.


Range of Gamochaeta purpurea. I hope this one turns up in your yard Iris!


Painted Lady Caterpillar.



Painted Lady Butterfly, Vanessa cardui.



Painted Lady Butterfly.


American Lady Caterpillar.


American Lady Butterfly, Vanessa virginiensis.


American Lady Butterfly.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)






ANGELICA! There are 23 native Angelica species in North America. 3 non - natives are listed on bonap, but a lot more alien species are being grown here because of their herbal qualities. Only 3 species occur in the east. Atropurpurea, venenosa, and triquinata. One of the non- natives, A. archangelica has a long and interesting history of use. The hollow stems were even used to make flute - like musical instruments.

Angelica atropurpurea, Apiaceae Apiales, purplestem Angelica, great Angelica, American Angelica, Masterwort, high Angelica.


Angelica atropurpurea


Range of Angelica atropurpurea.


http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/wetland/plants/grt_angelica.html

Angelica venenosa, Apiaceae,Apiales, hairy Angelica.


Angelica venenosa


Angelica venenosa


Range of Angelica venenosa.


Angelica triquinata, Apiaceae, Apiales, mountain Angelica, filmy angelica.


Angelica triquinata.


Angelica triquinata.


Range of Angelica triquinata.




When I was a kid, we lived across the street from a corn field. The land there sloped down into a stream. I remember there being large umbellifers there with hollow stems and purple coloring. I'm sure now that they were Angelica atropurpurea. The land was sold and developed. It breaks my heart to see that beautiful former farmland now. The Angelicas are all gone, but I'm going to bring them back. Maybe next year.

Male Black Swallowtail Butterfly.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

My lawn is full of all kinds of cutweed looking things. Maybe we will figure out what they are when they flower. I doubt they will all be mowed over before they do.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Cool, I'll have to start ordering from Iris's Weeds lol! You could make a ton on ebay! Think about it??? Beats ordering weeds from China haha! I have an order pending. What year should I expect it? lol!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, if you can figure out a method for getting good sedge germination, it would save a lot of money. For what it's worth, I sent you all the remaining sedge seeds I had. They were in the one that got lost, but I did it for your cause lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, did you actually check your lawn? Who knows what you are growing there.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I know everthing that's growing in my lawn. Nothing out of the ordinairy. Mostly invasive dandelions and invasive (but butterfly friendly) Plantagos. I have an unexpected window. Already crammed 14 pics in one comment. Why quit now???!!!

Iris, I hope your weed isn't sn Astragalus. It's a very large genus with 3.000 species. It could take weeks to figure that out lol! I just started some Astragalus seeds indoors. I still don't understand why my Senna didymobotrya seeds never germinated. I could say popcorn cassia but I just love saying that word didymobotrya, didymobotrya, lol, didymobotrifolia, didymobotrialis, didmobotrium, didymoboflorum, didymobotrytia, didymobotryphyllum, or just plain didybop! The popcirn cassia train already left the station....next year! Will there still be enough plants to grow? :( more than enough_ understatement. :)

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay based on the descriptions it looks like you'll have the best luck with Angelica venenosa in your conditions.


Regarding seed germination, there are some species that do best with fresh seed, even if theyre rampant reseeders, like wild geranium. The seeds basically cant be allowed to fully dry out, which inevitably happens when they are packaged and shipped. I sowed a whole tray or more of wild geranium but if they dont germinate, Im going to just buy a few plants and collect seeds off them and immediately sow them in trays for next year. I think the celandine poppies and virginia blue bells are the same way. Penn sedge spreads vegetatively I think so the seeds might be secondary reproductive strategy for that one.

https://garden.org/thread/view/77719/recalcitrant-and-semi-recalcitrant-seeds/

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think I can send you those three plants once they look like they are getting ready to break dormancy. Asarum too. I have large colonies of all three with young plants. They would be alright if wrapped moist and 2 day shipping. There must be some rare jewel out there. I wonder how hard it is to get seeds for that rare, endangered New Jersey spring beauty? I'm starting a colony of them as soon as they bloom. They're in the lawn, I want them in the garden playing off of the other natives. I'm going out by that area now. I'll check out the root and rhyzome situation. I want some Aralia nudicaulis plants. They spread by rhyzomes, awesome!

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dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)

No wonder I can't get certain seeds to germinate. My whole yard area is Pennsylvania sedge, but some small areas were planted with grass. Some plants that have berries keep their seeds moist that way. I've taken to collecting berries and extracting the seeds, then storing them moist in the fridge. But plants with dry seeds that are susceptible to dehydrating are a problem. I wonder if just refrigerating them after harvest would be good enough. Jay-send me moistened Celandine Poppy and Virginia Bluebell seed and I'll do the same with Penn Sedge! (and A. nudicaulis) after bloom.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Ok!








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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Stylophorum diphyllum emerging and ready to ship.


Asarum canadense rhizomes. Now is as good a time as any. There is no sign of the Mertensia virginica yet. I wouldn't know where to dig. Same with the Geranium maculatum, no sign.

Skip the Stylophorum will be an excellent groundcover that will prevent weeds from growing in shady spots. Another good plant for doing that in a short time is Impatiens capensis. It needs a fair amount of moisture. The yellow flowering species, pallida can handle slightly dryer conditions.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Sounds good! I sowed over 50 cells with mertensia virginica, I hope they germinate. Probably wont know until may or june.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Everything was covered with leaves. I raked them all off, so that should speed up the Mertensia and Geraniums. I think the Smilax is cool. I'm glad it just showed up. I have a million plans in my head!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Once again, I am going to have to read up on all of these plants. So much to learn! Thank you!

Is it safe to say someone has totally lost control of her garden if Evening Primrose is growing out of the walkway?

Or if she is having a hard time finding Baptisia in the mountain mint?

In other news, here are the first caterpillars. A bit high up to get good pictures.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I wouldn't even call what you have down there winter. Tent caterpillars already? Give me a break lol. Did the Baptisia spread, or are they Baptisia seedlings? In the front I'm going to dig out 2 spireas a rose bush, 2 privets and a red barberry. I think I'll plant some Tithonias and other flowers by the mailbox, maybe with a vine like the honeyvine. I could just mow any suckers.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am looking at wild geranium. I think I have Carolina geranium in the lawn. Or maybe not. The leaves vary greatly in my plants, so they are probably all kinds of different weeds. Can you tell it’s a bit owerwhelming what’s going on? I probably shouldn’t pay attention until it gets mowed.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The baptisia was there last year. The mint just spread in a big way around it. Don’t get too close to the mailbox with the tithonia. They are so popular with the pollinators. Don’t want to scare your mail carrier (the one I had a few years ago told me he was allergic to bee stings)

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I had the thought that maybe my front garden would attract too many bees and wasps for people walking by. There were so many wasps on the mountain mint last year it was a little scary, and my current plan is to plant butterfly weed and more coneflowr even closer to the sidewalk. Cant really have any flowers without bees though, right?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

You are right, Skip. But maybe something low right around the mailbox? Just thinking. This mail carrier said he can refuse to put mail in the box if he is not feeling safe. Same as if there would be a loose dog he would be scared of. I have a new carrier now. Still no really high plants there (they would block my vision to get out of the driveway anyway) Don’t want Jay to miss any seed deliveries.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Have to add the only time I have been stung (other than sweatbees) was walking too close to a hornet nest with my dogs. And as you can see by most of my pictures, I am always getting close to all kinds of critters.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It was just a thought, but you're right, I wouldn't want to miss any deliveries. The yellowjackets always make nests in the bottom of my old mailbox where packages go. I reached in there a couple times hoping for a surprise and wow did I ever get one! That's probably why they always leave the packages on the doorstep.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dalea, 67 species native to North America. A more western species with 6 species that range as far east as Illinois and Minnesota.


Dalea candida, Minnesota, Illinois.


Dalea enneandra, Illinois.


Dalea foliosa, Illinois, endsngered.


Dalea leporina, Illinois, Minnesota.


Dalea purpurea, Minnesota, Illinois.


Dalea villosa, Minnesota.

Range of Dalea purpurea. Yippee, and close but no cigar!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I did order some prairie clover plants. Going to take the evening primrose out of my walkway tomorrow. There are plenty around in case the evening primrose moth is showing up.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I keep trying to grow purple prairie clover but I cant seem to keep it alive. I think maybe direct sowing would work better.

I sowed a couple cells with the round headed bush clover Lespedeza capitata and the last 6 with Cunila origanioides. Now I have 10 50cell deep plugs trays and 10 38cell deep plug trays sown with seeds. Lets see how many I can plant haha.

Now some unrelated pictures I like:

Photos and plantings by Phytostudio I think.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

That’s so funny!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Pretty much my attitude lol! Is that the pawn star?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I think thats from orange county choppers. I saw that picture on reddit last week and had to download it

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Amsinckia. I've never seen any of these species around here, yet bonap shows they occur. Amsinckia is sort of like Acmispon, they are supposed to be growing around here but I never see them, and both are consideted cali plants. Maybe they are hoarding all those seeds? These are in the Borage family. There aren't that many natives in that family. Hoary pucoon is another one and also marbleseed. I scattered seeds for marbleseed outside but they never germinated.


Amsinckia spectabilis, Boraginaceae, Boraginales, seaside fiddleneck, wooly breeches.


Range of Amsinckia spectabilis.


Amsinckia menziesii, Boraginaceae, Boraginales. There are 2 variations, A menziesii var. intermedia and A. menziesii var. menziesii.


Range of Amsinckia menziecii


Amsinckia lycopsoides, Boraginaceae, Boraginales, tarweed fiddleneck. ( not a cali plant )


Range of Amsinckia lycopsoides.



Amsinckia intermedia, Boraginaceae, Boraginales,


Range of Amsinckia intermedia. A. intermedia is listed as a species on bonap. A google of intermedia gets a few hits for intermedia and A. menziesii also comes up. A. menziesii has a variation called intermedia. I'm not sure if there is a species or just a variation.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Maianthemum. I was going to start colonising them. I have couple plants at the old garden. I want to propogate them to get a lot more plants for all this shade. There are only 5 species of Maianthemum with 3 being native around here. They can make excellent low ground covers. The name was changed from Smilacina.


Maianthemum canadense, Nolinoideae, Asparagaceae, Asparagales, Canada mayflower.


Range of Maianthemum canadense.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/cn_mayflower.htm


Maianthemum racemosum, Nolinoideae, Asparagaceae, Asparagales, false Solomon's seal, Solomon's plume.


Range of Maianthemum racemosum.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/fs_solomon.htm


Maianthemum stellatum, Nolinoideae, Asparagaceae, Asparagales, starry Solomon's seal.


Range of Maianthemum stellatum.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/savanna/plants/starry_solomon.htm

The Maianthemum stellatum would look nice growing in the same area as Clintonia umellata.

Clintonia umbellata.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I like the plantings in the street pics. Wish my town had those. I think we have mostly stella d'oro daylilies and some alien grass.The nice thing about the Stylophorum is that it spreads fast from seeds and grows dense to suppress weeds, and they form large clumps, not rhizomes, so if you wanted to let them grow thick in an area to keep out weeds, and then later wanted to thin them out so you could interplant with other species, it would be easy to remove the Stylophorum, because it grows in clumps not rhizomes. That trait of their's was working against me at the other garden. I was afraid they were going to swallow up all my other plants lol.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, the trade sounds awesome. I'd love some A. nudicaulis seeds. I sowed seeds for Pennsylvania sedge, but once we all tally up what we have I'm sure there are other seeds I'll want.

https://youtu.be/A2_cbTwVY-0

https://youtu.be/OzHlu5JKJvM

https://youtu.be/USXEi5dJPto

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's raining so I can't do anything outside. Skip, what species of Clethra do you have? There's a couple. There's a lot of branches and leaves around here still.


Carex comosa, Cyperaceae, Poales, Commelinids, Monocots. It's a good host plant. Carex is a large genus. It will take years to really know well. The only way to get to know them is to grow them.

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/grasses/plants/bb_sedge.htm






















Carex comosa, bottlebrush sedge.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The weather is beautiful here today. Sunny and 72 degrees. Supposed to rain tomorrow. Saw the first Tiger Swallowtail!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Have you found any new weeds Iris?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha. What do you think?

My blueberries are finally having their bees.

I wonder if I can ever take the cage of my poor hearts a bustin.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

It was nice here too. I was busy all day with family stuff but managed to run out and plant the 9 Apios americana tubers. This might be the last time I'll see my fence this year lol.

Jay I have Clethra alnifolia, both straight species and 'ruby spice'.

This might be the last week I have freezing night temperatures. I need to move a bunch of shrubs too but time is not on my side

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I tried growing ruby spice years ago with no luck. I didn't realize Clethras weren't native for me at the time. I started digging out a privet. There's a lot of leaves around here, enough to fill a corn silo. I want to turn them all into compost. There are some sedges already growing here but I don't know what species. They never bloom, but I'm thinking they might be Pennsylvania sedge. I think there are just a few nights of freezing temperatures left here too. Iris, I'm growing the native Sedum pulchellum and Sedum ternatum, and Sedum glaucophyllum too. There's a lot of milkweed beetles close to the house.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The milkweed beetles are probably smelling your milkweed inside the house! I want to give the sedum a try. Oh boy. Seeds. And it seems they are tiny, too. Do any of these look familiar? I was looking up the Carolina geranium last night, so I took pictures of possible candidates for anything geranium. Should probably dig some out for a closer look. Everything is so jumbled together.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The first 2 look like Geraniums. The 3'rd might be another Ranunculus buttercup!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I wish I could tell you what those plants are. The last one doesnt look like geranium to me, but the second does.

Jay I just move the leaves where I want mulch and either mow them or leave them as is. The mold, bugs and worms will show up to make them into compost.


I have to see if i can get my chipper/shredder running and jam all this brush into it. I saw a little japanese honeysuckle vine around one of my maple trees so i started pulling and it filled a 5 gallon bucket! This stuff is ridiculous

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I just leave the leaves. But I don’t really have any wooded areas yet. I could use a chipper like that. Any recommendations?

I will just stop looking at weeds for now. My husband wanted to mow this weekend, but the pond started loosing water. He thought it was just a little project of replacing some fittings where the water runs from one pond to the other. Of course it wasn’t. I almost fell in twice. The joy of gardening!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I guess nobody has any idea just how many large oaks there are here. There's probably good soil at the bottom of the hill where most of the leaves end up. Sounds like a good no work idea to me Skip lol! Here are pictures of Geranium carolinianum. There is also Geranium maculatum and 3 non- native Geranium species to consider. G. disectum, G. molle, and G. pusillum. There is also a remote possibilty that one of the non- native, invasive Geraniums from another state jumped borders and is now in South Carolina. These are all pics of Carolina Geranium.





Geranium maculatum

I think your 'weed' is Geranium carolinianum. The leaves match.

.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Geranium dissectum, cut leaved cranesbill, alien, invasive.




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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Geranium molle, dovefoot Geranium, alien, invasive.








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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thanks, Jay! There are plenty of them. Glad you could at least start digging out Privet with your weather. Got to find the phone number of the guy I got mulch from last year. Hopefully he can come before the ground gets too soggy again.

Edited to say I probably have all of them. I took a lot of pictures of all kinds of different ones.

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