Smokemaster - thanks for your reply. You're right, I have no idea what kind of soil these should eventually be put in, I'm trying to do as much research and figure it out as I go. I don't have any yard, just patio / roof area, so these plants were all going to be in containers - so couldn't I tailor the potting soil I use to the plants I'm growing, when it comes time to transplanting them? I think I'm confusing myself haha. Starting seeds in the fall sounds like a good idea, but there's pretty much no way I will ever be able to set up a grow light area, just not enough space where I live. I guess if my spring-time experiment doesn't work out, I'll just stick to buying nursery plants in the future. I was planning on buying a couple nursery plants this weekend as a backup plan. So if / when my seed experiment goes awry, at least I'll have those. Thanks again for your help!

Hey! I'm jumping in here a little late, but I have a suggestion.... I also want to say that I think I just found my home forum. Grin. Our house is on half an acre, but somehow the city girl in me is having a hard time thinking beyond our row home yard in Philly. I am gardening on one small section, making it cozy, and letting my husband have his green lawn on the rest. Anyhow, as far as a fence, you may find that it will close you in too much, even a lattice the whole way would do the same thing. How about putting in a few medium height shrubs or flowers, making something like arms going in from both sides but leaving the center open a few feet. It would create a feel of privacy without enclosing. It would also allow for get togethers to slip out into the lawn a bit if needed. Like I said, just a thought. You may have a need to actualy put a barrier up, I remember the neighbors kids driving my mother nuts. Either way, have fun with you blank slate. By the way, (here I go again) they make a stain for concrete that can turn it into a nice terra cotta. Daina.

Thought I would give an update. I purchased a shade blend grass seed mix from Ace Hardware over a month ago. All I did was spread an organic fertilizer (sold in Home Depot and Walmart) over the area, then seed, then sprinkled straw over this. I did not rake the area at all. I hand watered for a few days (I only watered once per day) until we started getting rain. And boy did we get rain. We pretty much live in an arid area where if you want grass to grow, you need to install a sprinkler system. But In the last 4-5 weeks, we’ve had one of the wettest months on record. I made sure not to walk on the area where I planted grass and had a lot of cooperation with my wife and kids and dog, and now the grass is mostly grown to the point that it will probably grow. The leaves on the two trees have also grown in, too, and are shading most of the grass. The nice thing is that I have only had to water using the sprinkler system a few days in May. Looks better than previous years imo. My plan now is to start mowing the planted area in mid to late June for the first time, and continue sprinkling seed (and clover seed) on the area all summer approximately every two weeks. Normally I don’t fertilize and reseed in late summer, but I will do it this year just to see if it makes a difference once the leaves fall off the trees this fall. I shut off and drain the sprinkler system at about mid-October as we can start seeing freezes at about that time. So the only water the grass sees from that time on is from snow melt if we end up getting snow. As I mentioned before, the ultimate plan is to probably put in a stamped concrete slab in back to cover most of the affected area and I will probably put down concrete pavers myself in the rest of the area in the shade. This will cut down a lot on what areas we need to water.

5x7 seems awfully small. The roots of anything you plant will quickly fill that area and begin to grow into the surrounding soil, under the paving. We have a Trident maple in our yard, planted as a tiny seedling about thirteen years ago. It was selected from a collection of volunteers from a gorgeous mother tree and we hoped that the gene pool was a strong one. We crossed our fingers for a great natural infrastructure or beautiful fall color.....we got both. The seedling was about two feet tall when I transplanted it into a bark based potting medium to grow for a year before planting it in our side yard. It was about three feet tall when planted in the ground. It's now approx. 30 feet tall by 25 feet wide, with a diameter of 14 inches. (I asked my husband to go out and look.) We plant directly into hard, red Alabama clay soil with no irrigation under two to three inch layer of mixed wood mulch that we increase the radius of every year as the tree shades out more of the lawn. It does get watered during periods of serious drought, maybe a handful of times a year, at most. I live in Northern Alabama (6b-7a), with coldish winters and I consider this a pretty sunny part of the country.....certainly not gloomy. There are no visible surface roots and no driveway buckling. I asked my husband about the mature Tridents where he works and he said that there are no pesky surface roots. He's the Director of Horticulture and Landscaping at a local university in our city, so notices those kinds of things. However, all bets are off regarding behavior of any kind considering that very small planting site.