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jay6a

New Natives 2019

Jay 6a Chicago
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

This thread is about me and some others growing a bunch of new native plants. They are all seeds in bins cold stratifying at present. Everyone who is also growing native plants is welcome to join the conversation. There are still a lot of things that need to be done like looking closely at all the species to determine their placement and performance, prepping the areas to be planted which will include weed removal and tilling. It's a huge project, but we're ready for all the unforseen obsticals. Any of you lurkers are also welcome to join the conversation. I also am a butterfly gardener and a milkweed nerd both of which sometimes deal with non native species which are also acceptable to talk about here no rigid rules as far as topic goes.

Comments (401)

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    The website with the butterflies is the one Skip linked. If you click on the plants it shows you who uses it as hostplant. My picture a bit further up here shows what it tells me for milkweed.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Skip1909
    3 years ago
    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
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  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Walking the dogs in the rain today, I noticed enough weeds in my lawn to keep the Name that Plant forum busy for months. Plus some really dangerous looking thistles.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Bull thistle! Cirsium vulgare. One down. They are nasty. I left a couple to bloom one year. The cleanup...ouch. The spear thistle. I think thats why I decided to grow the native thistles.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I was looking at where Acmispon americanus is concentrated in the country. It covers the entire west coast ,the state of Texas, Virginia, and Minnesota. I'm just getting over a cold but it's been bad the last couple of days. That's why I haven't been on much. I'm in nocturnal mode again lol. I could try contacting the Minnesota wild ones and see if they can muster up some Acmispon americanus seeds.

    https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/57049-Acmispon-americanus



  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago


    Triosteum perfoliatum.
    Triosteum perfoliatum.
    Triosteum perfoliatum.
    Snowberry Clearwing Moth.
    Snowberry Clearwing Moth.
    long tongued bee
    long tongued bee
    bombus, bumblebee.
    Deer love to eat the upper part of the plant.
    "yum!"

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    https://youtu.be/qSHcAfalhP4

    https://youtu.be/xo1aft5wX6o

    https://youtu.be/mgXLYSy321Y

    https://youtu.be/guPpf_gaESE

    That plant finder app is a good thing. I didn't know it was run by the NWF. They need more things like that.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago


    These are the plants that I want to order.

    Streptopus lanceolatus.
    Clintonia umbellata.
    Andropogon ternarius.
    Apios priceana.
    Asclepias amplexicaulis.
    Asclepias quadrifolia.
    Cuphea cyanea.
    Stachytarpheta red.
    Stachytarpheta purple.
    Veronicastrum Cupid and Fascination.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Your list sounds good! I figured the thistle was a bullthistle. I did get one of the weeds identified on Name that plant. Can you believe it was actually something native for once? Yay. Doesn’t happen too often that it turns out to be something I might keep some of.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I was thinking about the Amorpha nitens. A bit scary if it does behave like Sumac.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Iris, where did you read that Amorpha nitens behaved like sumac. I haven't been over at name that plant. I will look for your thread there. I still think the Amorpha georgiana var. confusa is beautiful, and if I ever try another Amorpha species it will be nana.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Well lucky you Iris. A Packera found its way into your yard!!! That jeeksl is really sharp. They might be naming a new species he discovered after him.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    It was the 3rd result that came up when I googled it. Louis the plant geek, I think. Not that he is not all for this plant.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Jay, there are a bunch of them. I think I am going to move some so they don’t get mowed over. Or put some flags there so my husband will know to leave them alone. It’s going to be a while, it’s way too muddy to mow.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago


    Packera anonyma.
    Packera anonyma. I'm sure it's a host plant for something.
    Northern Metalmark Butterfly.
    Northern Metalmark Butterfly.
    Gem Moth
    Carpenter bee.
    Cuckoo bee.
    Halictid bee.
    Syrphid Fly.
    Tachinid Fly.

    Probably all the native Packeras host the same insects. This is based on Packera aurea from Illinois wildflowers. I had Packera glabella plants appear on their own at both places. There should be a bunch more from seeds this year.

    http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/woodland/plants/gold_ragwort.htm

  • dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
    3 years ago

    Prairie Moon is having a two day $2 sale starting today. They must be wanting to clear out some left over stock. A good time tho to pick up some skipped over types.

    Jay-I've never heard of or seen the Streptopus lanceolatus before. I maybe stumbled over it before because it looks so much like the false solomon seals.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Keep your eyes peeled for any Acmispon americanus. There should be a bunch of it in Minnesota. The leaves of the Streptopus do look like Solomon's seal. Did you get your drive plowed? We're in the worst of it now. We had some very strong winds but none of the bin tops flew off. I think they were all frozen in place lol.

  • dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
    3 years ago

    No-I've never seen Acmispon americanus, but I do have Pipsissewa here which stays evergreen in winter under the snow. I would really like to get Wintergreen(Gaultheria procumbens) established as I love how odorous the plant is. It's available in the area but it doesn't transplant very well.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Dandy,have you tried transplanting it? I think I tried growing it once with poor results. I tried northern bayberry too. The i naturalist map shows a bunch of Acmispon americanus in Minnesota. Maybe just not in your area.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    It looks like there is some Plantago patagonica growing about a county away. I will have to explore the areas where it's supposed to be growing. Nobody is offering fresh seed for it still!

    Plantago patagonica

    Possibility Place, the local native nursery has a lot of cool native trees. They have red mulberry, yellowwood, and Carolina Silverbell to name a few. I wish I had space for more trees.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I wish I had a nursery selling native plants nearby. There is one half an hour away that has one shelf proudly labeled native.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Honestly with all these trees and shrubs I have been planting, I really have to make lists and label everything. I stood in front of a tiny little stick today (dormant of course) and it took me at least 3 minutes to remember that it is a hornbeam.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Yes, I have trouble remembering all the seeds I planted. But it is a lot of species. I have to label everything. My native nursery is about a half hours drive for me too, but the guy only grows natives and he has a huge nursery. There's another big nursery about 45 minutes away. They sell all the regular garden center plants and all the hot new cultivars. They have a small native section. They seem to be adding a few new natives each year. It's the nursery where I bought the 8 milkweed plants when I ran out. They also sell tropical milkweeds and autumn sage. Most places like Wallmart don't sell those up here. I heard they do down south. I'll have to check and see if Sunrise nursery is going to be selling porterweeds. I highly doubt it but it couldn't hurt to check.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I have never really looked at the plants at Walmart. Our Lowe’s does have tropical milkweed about every other year. They had Joe Pye weed once. And Anise Hyssop. The “in charge” person at the Home Depot didn’t know what milkweed is last year. So I do order most of my plants online. Don’t trust the ones from Home Depot anyways. Even though I read somewhere that they would change their policy of treating the plants with pesticides.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Yeah, I know about those garden people at home depot. They don't know much about plants. I always have to step in and answer questions. It's a little sad that they put people who really don't care much about plants in charge of their care. The people working there don't even know the names. When I buy from somewhere like Missouri Wildflowers or Prairie Moon it feels right because I know these people really love the plants they grow. I was responding to this thread through my email and I forgot to submit it. Then I came back and didn't see my comment. It was in the email. So I forgot it was in my email and I made another comment. Heaven help me!!! I had to make sure those emergency milkweeds were not sprayed. They were not and all the cats ate them and turned into butterflies and flew away.

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I was looking everywhere for natives when i first moved in to my house in 2015. I couldnt find anywhere in my area with native trees and shrubs, and ended up ordering 12 tiny 12-16" high shrubs online. Then I was looking at a wholesale nursery website in the region, either New Moon Nursery or North Creek Nursery, and backtracked a retailer from their site only 10min from my house. It looks like a real mom and pop operation on the side of the road but once you get onto the grounds it is deceptively large (like they drive you around in a golf cart to pick up plants) and they have a huge variety of natives. I could have gotten every plant I ordered online in like a 3 or 5 gallon size for the same price. Maybe look on their sites for nurseries they work with near you Iris? Or if you have other wholesalers in your area ask them which retailers they work with?

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I was watching mountain garden videos and then found their site. He has Laportea canadensis. It's one of the impossible to find plants. A Red Admiral host plant. They have some very cool medicinal herbs. I'm going to start eating my white mulberries. They are very good for your health. I don't mean just the berries. The leaves, twigs and bark. Rudbeckia laciniata has the same health benefits as Echinacea so you can just harvest the roots for medicine and keep your aggressive clump in bounds.

    https://www.mountaingardensherbs.com/seeds-available


    Laportea canadensis

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago

    Did you read up on how to eat the white mulberry leaves? I think some people recommend boiling them in a couple changes of water to remove the toxins, similar to pokeweed. Some people claim to eat them raw other guides say they are toxic, be safe with that.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Yes Jay, please read carefully before eating anything. Need you around here! I am so glad the 26 degrees from last night didn’t do anything to the flowers on my plum tree. It was buzzing this afternoon. It was great!

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Well, I'd really like to buy that huge thick book on Chinese herbal medicine. The 'materia medica'. I'll find out how to prepare them. Teas or tinctures I would think. Obviously eating twigs is not healthy. There's even a parasitic plant that grows on the white mulberries in China, and the Chinese use the wood shavings from the infected parts for another special healing herb. It's just really cool because I'm just starting to find out that a lot of the plants I'm growing are medicinals and I should start learning more about them so I can start using them. I got to the hydroponics store and picked up more coco/perlite mix, got more potting soil not Kellog, something else plus more perlite. I hope to get some chicken grit tomorrow to spread on top of the seeds to keep the soil from being compacted. Iris, the wild ones told me they are starting a program to get more local common stores to sell more native plants. I thought it was funny since we were just talking about it. I wonder if I could mix chicken grit into the soil mix to make it more arable? I wonder how much chicken grit costs??



    https://youtu.be/V1NnFNs5TDs

    https://youtu.be/RBQZshvUMZI

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I have no idea about the chicken grits. I got this book as a present once. Didn’t read too much of it yet (so many books!) I looked under what the mulberry leaves are used in this one. Look what’s a few lines under it... might have to compete with your caterpillars!

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Lo and behold Iris, I can blow up my pictures again! :) Hope it lasts! I never see any cats on the NUMEROUS mulberries I constantly battle with! When I don't have time to dig one out, I rip off all the green parts at least. Hard to grow, when you can't photosynthesize. Did I spell that right. On this new phone they finally managed to transfer all my photos, messages and adjustments intact. The autocorrect was already deleted so still is. I messed up trying to use my fingerprints and iris for scanning. My phone would lock whenever I stopped using it and I had to use a password to unlock it. I fixed it. Iris, you mean that with all those weird caterpillars you've had in your property that you've never seen one woolybear caterpillar???



  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I was talking about the Asclepias listed under the mulberry on my book page. Wait, did this even post? I can’t see the picture I posted. Not the bookpage or the picture of the bee. Don’t tell me it is happening again. I am going to have to figure that out.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Oh yes, I had plenty of woolybears.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago


    I thought you said ( somewhere ?) that you never heard of Isabella Tiger Moths. That's what wolly bears turn into!

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I have heard of that one. The last one I didn’t know about was the unexpected cycnia. It should be here, but I have never seen it. And I pay attention to my milkweeds, so I should have noticed caterpillars.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Just looked at pictures of the adult. They look familiar. But there are so many similar moth.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Yeah, I think it falls into that little brown moth category. They are all sort of grouped together lol.

  • dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
    3 years ago

    Jay-I think you have exhausted limits again, no picture is showing for a previous posting for

    Laportea canadensis


    Jay 6a Chicago thanked dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Laportea canadensis.
    I don't know. That would mean that it takes less comments with pics each time to reach that point. I'll wait a day or 2. Laportea looks just like nettle.
    Laportea canadensis.

    Dandy_Line, let me know if you see these photos ,or not.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Dandy, do you have the problem, too? Do you see a picture of a bee in my post? Or the picture of the book page? That post doesn’t make any sense without one.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I can see everything. The 3 desert pictures too. I can make a new one no problem.

    https://youtu.be/o7BRJJ-HCyg

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Are you guys viewing this thread through the gardenweb.com domain or houzz.com domain, because I always have problems looking at threads through the houzz domain, and sometimes it will randomly switch to that domain based on what link I clicked to get to this thread.


    Basically the web address will say

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5598364/new-natives-2019#23649958

    Or

    [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/new-natives-2019-dsvw-vd~5598364[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/new-natives-2019-dsvw-vd~5598364) at the top

    But they take you to the same place.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I can blow up pictures now. Maybe it only works when I enter the thread via email.

    Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.

    Cynanchum laeve. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Leptadenia species. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Gomphocarpus cancellatus. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Asclepias cryptoceras. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Matelea reticulata. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Pseudolithos species. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Ceropegia species. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Hoodia species. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Hoya species. Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae.
    Tabernaemonana panacaqui. Apocynaceae.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Gardenweb for me. Jay if there are pictures in your last post, I don’t see them.

  • dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
    3 years ago

    The last picture I see above is of the deer with the comment:

    Deer love to eat the upper part of the plant.
    "yum!"

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked dandy_line (Z3b N Cent Mn)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Ok,wow! I'll start a new one. It will be called 'This Year's New Natives' .

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I started a new thread. Please look for it ya'll.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    It might not have posted.

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