Do grafted citrus have shorter lifespans than own-rooted ones?
Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
5 years ago
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5 years agoHeruga (7a Northern NJ)
5 years agoRelated Discussions
Ron - On Grafting - Own Roots, Rose Life and Death etc.
Comments (24)Taoseeker, Thanks for the information on the European history with long term use of their most common rootstocks. I find it interesting and very useful and hope for long term good results - more vigorous root growth translating into more resilient bushes. I do remember seeing a number of times R. laxa use mentioned in the hybridizing experiments by the Canadian pioneer prairie hybridizer. One of the Skinners I have is apparently a cross with it and a pimpinefollia - sorry have not taken the time to check if it is Haidee Suzanne Butterball or all. Makes me wonder if that was the influence of their European ancestry, availability or factual superior hardiness - don't know but in 5 years I should. By the way very pleased to see very good cane survival for the first year on my Portland named Marie Jean I got from Lynnette last year when she gave up on it. Melissa, There is a gentleman in British Columbia I met through Lynnette who has made it a mission to collect and save Geschwinds. I need to let him know what I received and get him some cuttings. The two Canadian nurseries that I would be happy to share cuttings (gratis) that graft I have not approached as it gets too close to commercial for me and I would have to be absolutely sure that the roses are out of patent before even contact (most are over 100 years old so I am probably safe). However I sense both of them have absolutely the strictest of QA controls and would do it on their own so as to be sure of providence and disease free stock - if they survive winter and prosper I may contact them to guage their interest ... they both export to the States. Kaylah Hi, I was fortunate my Charles de Mills that I cover and is in the south gardens has 3 foot canes and lots of them ... problem is blooms are usually in short supply and last year I think I got 3. I leave it as it always grows well and takes to protection well. All my other dark gallicas are history except for the many exmaples of Belle d'Crecy I got as delambre - it also seems to survive well if covered ... but too much damage and the blooms are gone. All my cardinal Richelieu departed voluntarily over the years (3). Me I fool around with teas but only in pots and bring them in in October ... got a couple new ones this year. My FMkruger ... is a monster in zone 3 (hahhaha) and I think I must of got the most vigorous clone of this tea via Quebec. Kids you not take a cutting - stick in earth in the house and it takes like in February when I accidentally snapped a branch off ... now I got two with the younger being already at least foot high in 4 months and has gone through one bloom cycle. But the one I really miss is Mrs Schwartz ... almost as reliable as Mlle Franz Krueger (sp) ... forgot to take a cutting and over wintered her in the garage and she and all the other ones died - fortunately had cuttings for 3 of them in the basement to replace them - there as tall in two 365 day a year growing seasons as the originals....See MoreJude the Obscure, grafted or own root?
Comments (20)Hi Diane: I'm very impressed with your Jude ... so healthy and tons of blooms in your alkaline clay. I have alkaline clay too, and roses grafted on Dr. Huey are awesome bloomers at the rose park, 15 minutes from me. My neighbor put a row of hybrid teas grafted on Dr. Huey, our soil is limestone clay, pH 7.7. He was cutting them for the vase everyday, dark green leaves, 100% clean, non-stop blooming. But only for 1st year, our zone 5a winter killed them. Hi Andreajp: Per your question of "Do grafted rose have an expiration date?" It depends on your soil/climate. In my zone 5a wet clay, grafted isn't best due to: 1) My neighbor planted his grafted hybrid teas at ground level, our -20 F winter zapped the bud union. 2) I buried a grafted hybrid tea at 4" below ground level. Dr. Huey doesn't like my wet clay, and declined. My hybrid tea went from 100% clean in the pot, to BS like crazy in that wet clay (mulched with leaves). Knock-outs in that wet bed lost their Dr. Huey's roots completely (these were planted 6" below ground). Knock-outs planted at ground level elsewhere retained their Dr. Huey. 3) The lifespan of Dr. Huey in my cold zone 5a is very short, the rose park replaces their HT's beds constantly.. the only ones that stay long are hardy Austin roses. Niels in Denmark, zone 5b, made the same observation that grafted doesn't last long, except for Peace hybrid tea. I checked in HMF and found Peace have thousands of descendants. Lots of descendants mean it can be grown easily from seeds, and root easily. Jude the Obscure has only 1 descendant, hard to root. Kim Rupert (Roseseek) in a dry and hot climate report that grafted on Dr. Huey lasts very long, like 80 years. In our cold and wet limestone clay, Dr. Huey lasts 2 years max if buried too deep. Everything decomposes fast in my limestone clay, lime is used in the old days to corrode corpses. Kim has shale clay, where imprints of ancient fossils are preserved ... he reported that nothing decomposes buried in his dry clay....See MoreWhy own-root roses are healthier than grafted?
Comments (34)Today January 2, I dug up Comte de Chambord, grafted of Multiflora rootstock. Bluegirl had it for a few years in her alkaline Texas, didn't bloom well so she gave to me, since I have more rain. As multiflora-rootstock, Comte bloomed OK in spring but stingy afterwards, while my 2 other Comte as OWN-ROOT bloom profusely with 4 flushes until snow hit. I have Comte-on-multiflora for 2 years. It's so stingy in the summer I moved it next to the rain-spout in July. Its root was the same size as my marigold !! It became even stingier, despite my using the entire bag of coarse sand to make my clay fluffy. So I dug up Comte grafted on multiflora today, Jan 2, and IT WAS THE MOST PATHETIC multiflora rootstock that I had ever seen in my 3 decades of growing roses !! I already posted the study that showed Fortuniana-rootstock produces more blooms than Dr. Huey, and Dr. Huey produces more blooms than multiflora-rootstock. Left side is Comte de Chambord grafted on multiflora rootstock, right side is a snapdragon annual flower root (sown from seed !!). The snapdragon-flower root is actually larger than the multiflora-rootstock. This 4+ year-old Multiflora-rootstock actually SHRANK in my alkaline clay, despite tons of acidic rain. And it REFUSED to give me own-roots at the side like Dr. Huey-rootstock. Picture taken today, Jan 2 at 39 F or 4 C. Re-post info. from Oct. 2016: Comparing Dr. Huey-rootstock, Multiflora-rootstock, and Fortuniana-rootstock from below link, worth reading: http://roses4az-mevrs.org/wp-content/uploads/An-Overview-of-Fortuniana.pdf Here in the Desert Southwest, with our generally alkaline soils and extreme temperatures, we find that r. multiflora has a shorter life span, losing its vigor after five years. While fortuniana bushes had superior root systems, they had difficulty with the harsh & cold English climate. In a study over several years, Dr. McFadden budded two hybrid tea varieties, Queen Elizabeth and Tiffany, onto three different rootstocks. After counting the number of blooms produced over many growing seasons, the varieties budded onto fortuniana produced significantly more blooms. The fortuniana plants produced about THREE TIMES the number of blooms as those on multiflora and TWICE as many as on Dr. Huey. Additional benefits of Fortuniana include increased resistance to gall, stem dieback, and root disease, such as Phytophtora and Pythium. Bushes planted over 40 years ago in Florida are still thriving. On this rootstock, plants are heavier feeders, as they have five times the feeder roots of more common varieties." http://roses4az-mevrs.org/wp-content/uploads/An-Overview-of-Fortuniana.pdf...See MoreDo grafted conifers generally have a shorter lifespan?
Comments (23)This guy I know who is an owner of a nursery that sells only grafted trees(mostly conifers) grafts his picea jezoensis species because grafting is his specialty and why grow from seed when he can just graft it easily. None of his products are propagated from seed. Also, I can't believe I forgot about Sc77s comment. I saw it and I was going to re ask the same question but turned out I forgot. I will re quote it "One interesting thing I always wondered.... a grafted plant is said to have the maturity of the parent tree, meaning that a grafted tree has the ability to cone right away, or within a year after recovering from the trauma of grafting. I always took this to mean it inherited the age of the parent tree, but I guess that can't be right, otherwise really old cultivars would be literally hundreds of years old now, since they all originated from the same tree... So what's the story with that? Is it just juvenile vs. mature DNA, but not necessarily age inheritance?" So yea, what is the deal with this? If a scion for grafting or cutting for root formation was taken from a 70 year old tree would that make the scionwood/cutting 70 years old once it has its roots?...See MoreIke Stewart
5 years agoDenise Becker
5 years agoponcirusguy6b452xx
5 years agoHeruga (7a Northern NJ)
5 years agoLaura LaRosa (7b)
5 years agoIke Stewart
5 years agoHeruga (7a Northern NJ)
5 years agoIke Stewart
5 years agosocalnolympia
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoHeruga (7a Northern NJ)
5 years agoponcirusguy6b452xx
5 years ago
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