more kitchen layout advice
Yes, I want two dishwashers, but if my husband wins the second will be a 24” cabinet. The aisles are 5’ because my 3 year old is in a wheelchair (but hopefully not permanently). The indented part on the back of the island will have an overhang for seating and there will also be an overhang on the adjacent side for a seat.
The current layout is attached for comparison.
Comments (12)
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small kitchen layout advice please
Comments (25)Thought I would bring this thread up to date. Here's where we're at (at the moment). On Monday the support wall for the peninsula goes in so that electrical and plumbing rough-ins can finish. A few things we are looking to do, based in large part from helpful comments on other threads. counter height peninsula with seating for 4, including 1 at the end. 18" overhang provided. prep sink (15" wide or so) in the middle of the peninsula. This will divide the space into 2 prep areas, each about 4' wide. And for holidays we can make pies etc with our teenage kids on the same surface, using it from both sides. When we're working at that peninsula we'll be looking out over the family room to a vaulted ceiling with sky views. Fridge is 6 1/2' from the closest prep area at the end of the peninsula. The kitchen naturally is pretty dark because it is in the middle of the house. We'll put a solatube in the center to bring natural light in. We're probably going with a 36" range to provide more space on top for dueling pots and pans. We stir fry a lot so we'll get one with a center wok ring. This is a good central location and allows for a third prep area to the right of it between the range and clean-up. This is also a location where we can vent through the roof. We have plumbing for the pot filler and are 50/50 on whether or not to put one in. It would be handy for pasta, which we make probably 2 x week. Cleanup area is out of the way and near dish storage. Dining room is on opposite side of the wall from the cleanup area, so about as close as we can be to dining room, dishwashwer, and casual dining (peninsula). Interior designer (who doesn't cook) had wanted us to put the fridge at the end of one of the U's, but this would have reduced the cleanup area and cabinet space. Also visually from the family room I prefer seeing the fridge from the side, with cabinets around it. He wanted to do this so we wouldn't see the fridge from the living room at all. If this were a huge deal, we could get a paneled refrig, but we'd rather not. If the fridge were put there it would actually be a bit farther (by a foot or so) from the main prep area, but it would be closer to clean-up which would be somewhat better for food storage. Still thinking about micro / speed oven (probably on wall near fridge somewhere) and refrigerator drawers (probably not--will need all the drawers we an get in the peninsula). Comments still welcome. This is still mostly virtual but it becomes more reality every day. Will post some actual photos soon....See MoreMore advice on living room layout
Comments (8)I love your living room! And I would like to say that your windows are the only ones I've seen in decades that look really perfect with valances, both the type and the print--- the treatment is great for the room! It looks as though you are trying to keep the sight line and walkway clear to the far door, and I think that is the problem.....the room looks like a walk through to somewhere else. I would try ignoring that exterior door. Pull the rug up to the edge of the fireplace (or almost), and go ahead with your plan for the book case arrangement of two tall and a low between them. If you make plenty of room there, that will be your walkway through to the other side of the room. Instead of putting the stereo on top of the low unit, drill holes in the back and put the components on the shelves and hang artwork (one big thing) above the low unit. Take the two wood chairs (Windsors?) from the fireplace and place one on either side of the two tall bookcases. Pull the wing chairs to either side of the fireplace, angled in, and the sofa opposite the fireplace, it's current position but moved towards the FP about three feet or so. You can use the wooden chairs as "pull up" chairs--- that's what our ID calls chairs in a location where you would not normally sit but they're available for larger groups to pull up to the conversation....See Moreseeking more kitchen layout advice
Comments (24)The problem to solve is to allow people to be able to enter at any time, not just when other aren't seated. A person takes up about 2 feet from the counter edge. The door itself needs some amount of room to swing. If you have a 3 foot door and seating directly in front and in the direction the door swings, you'd need about 5.5 feet (a little allowance in case a larger person is seated or someone sits back further) to the edge of the counter. If you have a 4 foot door as two 2-foot french doors, you'd need 4.5 feet. If the swings out into the porch, the door can be any size and the aisle can be 4 feet. There are two possibles - don't use a section right in front of the door for seating, instead use part of the side and all of the end on the dining side. The other way is to look at whether shortening the island would allow a dedicated to seating block to be added on the dining room side - 30-36" wide by however long you can make it. 36" length is seating for three, 48" length is seating for 4 and 60" length is seating for 5. If you'd rather narrow the island at a future time, plan on doing two counter materials on the island - say 2 feet of wood and 2 feet of rock (plus overhangs). When the time comes cut the wood so the depth of that side becomes 12-14". If you have some support on the ends or then add corbels, it'll work well. So if you start out with a 4 foot wide island and then move the door to a three foot wide inswing door, you can get the aisle to be five feet wide and yell fore! You could use a pair of two foot doors and a 42" wide island. If you use laminate on the island, you don't need to care about using multiple materials - laminate is pretty inexpensive. You either get a new island top or refurbish your existing one but you aren't losing more than a few hundred bucks at most - not the big price tags that come from attempting to re-cut a rock counter. That can be done but... Most fabricators do not want to touch any other fabricators work cause they don't know how it was done. So you'll pay premium price for them to come to your house, uninstall the counter, haul it back to their shop, re-cut it, haul the new counter back and re-install it. Summarized - plan now about your counters and flooring under the current and revised seating areas. I hope this is English and that it helps- I'm not sure....See MoreMore layout questions -- unfitted or fitted kitchen
Comments (34)Hmm. Interesting thoughts. I'm just lost as to which way to go. On the island issue, I do prefer the look of a single height on the island, but I wasn't sure what I would be losing in terms of storage if I went with a 32" height. Are you losing drawers as a result? How tall is your toe kick? How are you handling the difference in height? I'm also really torn on the twin hutches v. TV. I like the idea of a TV in the kitchen since our kitchen is isolated from both Family Room and Den (we don't have a formal Living Room as we've converted that space to the FR). I like to watch movies while I'm baking (it's my DH-approved Jane Austen, girly movie time -- no complaintss as long as cookies are the result), and I also would like to hook up my computer so I can pull up internet recipes and display them on the large screen or play music, etc. We bought our previous house specifically because the FR and kitchen were together, but since this house is older, it doesn't have that nice layout. OTOH, I do lurve those two hutches flanking the window. Like this: Double hutches On the spice/oil hutches -- I'm (you guessed it) torn between hutches and the glass cabs or even open shelves. I liked the idea of the oil/spice hutches so that I don't have to reach high to find what I'm looking for when I'm cooking. I was thinking of mnhockeymom's beautiful hearth around her range. Mnhockeymom's Range Hearth. Of course, I don't have anything resembling the amount of space she has, but if I skip the double hutch scenario and go with the TV in the corner, I think I would have plenty of counter space, especially with the island immediately behind me. OTOH, if I do go with the twin hutches flanking the window, I agree that all those hutches in such a small space would be overkill. Ugh. This planning is so much work! LOL...See Moreemilyam819
5 years agoartistsharonva
5 years agoartistsharonva
5 years agoI also suggest making more countertop behind the sink, so water doesn't run down the back side of cabinets.
artistsharonva
5 years agolast modified: 5 years ago- PRO
User
5 years agoDear Angelica,
I believe getting a new kitchen is a huge opportunity for you to dramatically improve your home and especially your New Life in it Permanently!
Fact: You are NEVER going to renovate this kitchen again for as long as you’re in this home. So that’s why you truly want a permanent, one time perfect kitchen solution. To serve you now and for as long as you’re in this home.
One comprehensive solution to resolve, fix, or eliminate your current kitchen problems. And without creating any new performance problems you may be unaware of.
Also, you’ll want to avoid everything “Trendy” or the esthetic value of your new kitchen will plummet to zero when the trend your kitchen was designed to meet changes. Kitchen trends change about every 10 years. Are you planning on redoing your new kitchen in ten years? If not AVOID the latest Trends!
I believe a kitchen is a Home & Life Improvement Project! NOT a get a new kitchen project to satisfy your urge for something new. Because you don’t like your existing kitchen, with the Hope of getting what you truly want and desire. This is a recipe for kitchen project failure almost everyone blindly follows.
I did in 1995 as a client, remodel my first kitchen, and it was a huge fail for me.
You truly believe you’re going to get a new kitchen and a new life delivered to you when your new kitchen is done, like I did in 1995. I am certain you won’t. Because it’s obvious to me, by looking at your kitchen design drawings, that you haven’t designed your new life to be lived in it yet.
Yes, EVERYONE ends up with a beautiful new kitchen, everyone else loves. Because there is little effort required to deliver that. Unfortunately, few clients get the new Life they truly want, desire, and expect their new kitchen project to deliver. Why?
Because you have designed your kitchen but have neglected to design the life you truly want and expect to begin living in it AFTER your new kitchen is done. How can I be so sure?
Can you tell me exactly HOW you’ll be Living in your new kitchen AFTER you get it?For example you should be able to easily answer these questions if you know HOW:
· Can you tell me where all of your kitchen items from your old kitchen will go in your new one? That makes your kitchen more efficient and easier to live and work in than your current kitchen?
· Will all of your items fit?
· Do you have the right cabinetry configurations and accessories to store and get your items most efficiently?
· Does your new kitchen work much more efficiently that your old one?
· Is your work triangle the same, smaller, or bigger?
· How does your new kitchen work day to day, and when you entertain vs. your existing one?
· Have you resolved, fixed, or eliminated all of your existing kitchen’s performance problems, esthetically and functionally in your new kitchen layout?
· Have you decided on this one new kitchen layout, combination of appliances and cabinetry, AFTER seeing and comparing every possible combination?
· How many new kitchen layouts were proposed before you decided on this one? One or two, two or three, five, ten, fifteen or more?
· Did you say you wanted to get rid of your formal living room and decided to fill both LR and kitchen areas with cabinetry?
“Design the life you truly want and expect to begin living in your new kitchen AFTER it’s done, and your new kitchen design will take care of itself.”
Let’s look at what you have. Your kitchen interior design drawings are done, more or less. Your kitchen cabinetry is ready to be ordered. But your life to be lived in your new kitchen (for as long as you own it) has been hopelessly neglected. As well as how your new kitchen will integrate into your home’s newly reconfigured first floor plan. Why?
One mistake you are unknowing making is you are, like the majority of clients, designing your new kitchen out of context. You are treating your new kitchen like it’s a standalone entity, a thing apart from your home not a part of it.
If you look at the sketch below you’ll clearly see what I mean. In context your new kitchen looks Huge! Your island is 14’ long and just 3’ wide. It will look very thin and very, very long. It’s also way to close to the wall of your master closet. Creating a bottle neck when the island seats are in use, forcing family and guests to cut through kitchen work space to get around the island.
People travel path of least resistance. So with 5’ aisle ways and 4’ between the back of your island and the wall you might as well not have an island. If you daughter can negotiate her wheel chair in a 4’ aisle way when she is using the kitchen I think you all will be better served. She still has a 5’ turning radius at either end of the island with 4’ aisle ways. And I’m hoping she won’t be in a wheelchair long term.
Almost no one is going to want a kitchen with 5’ aisle ways. That’s just too wide. That’s 3 to 4 steps to get from your range to your sinks. In your layout it also defeats the purpose of having an island, which is to separate work space from gathering space.
Your kitchen has no well defined purpose esthetically or functionally. I believe you should design your kitchen with the purpose of efficiently providing food and beverage service for your entire home, not just part of it. And to always “Look” like it was just installed, so it never gets old.
Your kitchen esthetically Looks dated and you haven’t built it yet. Your Ref/f is sticking way out of it’s enclosure. Trapped between two tall cabinets (trendy) with no easy access to adjacent counter space. Loading multiple items into, and taking multiple items out of your Ref/f , which happens frequently, will be quite a chore. And you use your Ref a lot!
Your Ref/f is as far away from your family room and outdoor space as possible. It is closer to your dining room. Are you keeping a breakfast table in your nook? If you are that’s far from your Ref/f too.
Your work triangle is HUGE 16’ from your range to your Ref/f and 15’ from your main sink. Your main sink is Center Stage. Unless you are meticulous, if you wait until After your done you might wish you had NOT put it on your island.
Your existing kitchen’s work triangle is very small by comparison. If you like this small work triangle you’ll probably hate your new kitchen for not having one.
Your island is a barrier not a blessing. At 14’ long where are you going to put the seam, and getting around it when you need to is going to be a chore. You’ll take 6 to 7 steps just to get from one end to the other.
Do you really need all of this cabinetry? Do you really want your kitchen to dominate your first floor? Do you want a 14’ Island? How much of this kitchen is really You, and what you want and need to be satisfied living in it, with your family and friends, for as long as you own it?
You should design your kitchen so it performs the five basic tasks every kitchen performs. Which are Storage, Preparation, Cooking/Baking, Delivery, and Clean Up, and to perform them all as efficiently as possible. So your new kitchen can add time to your life instead of taking it away. And so this project can add value to your Home and Life permanently not temporarily.
So you can really get what you truly want and expect. Which if you really think about this, IS Your new, different, easier, better Life you truly want and expect this new kitchen project to deliver to you and your family.
I Hope You Do Not Settle For Just A New Kitchen like most people do. After it’s done and when you’re moving into it. Is when you’ll realize you didn’t really get what you truly wanted. New kitchen but no new, different, easier, better Life. Not the one that you were hoping for and truly expected.At that point you Have To Make Do with what you got. ADAPT to your new kitchen, and live with your frustration and disappointment that you didn’t see this coming. And You’ll wish you had done this kitchen project very differently.
I know this from personal experience as a client before I got into the business of designing kitchens for people. So you wouldn’t have to live with the frustration, regret, and disappointment of getting a new kitchen you weren’t expecting. Like I did. Even though it matches your kitchen design drawings.I believe that if you want to change your kitchen and change your life for the better. You need to be crystal clear about what you truly want this kitchen to deliver to you. What is its purpose? How will your life be new, different, easier, better than in the kitchen you have now?
Then you’ll need multiple new kitchen layouts, as many as you can create is best, to get you from where you are, in your existing kitchen, to where you truly want to be Living. Use this link to get DIY Kitchen Layout Help and instructions. https://www.kitchendesignco.com/diy-kitchen-layout-help/
Hope this has been helpful.
Joe BrandaoP.S.: If you want to discover what no other kitchen designer will ever tell you. Click the following link for more kitchen design advice. https://www.kitchendesignco.com/design-advice/
angelicatownshend
5 years agoAlright, so taking advice into account, I have some updated drawings and a few questions. We are largely basing our design off of the rental house we are currently in while the work is being arranged and done. It works great for our cooking and living style with a few things we would change. In it there is an angled island that’s 13.5 feet x 44.5” in width (not including the angled bits, which are wider. The distance from the cooktop to the sink is just over 5 feet, with the narrowest points being 2 4 feet pinch points in the aisle where the angles jut in. It also has a beverage fridge. I’ll attach some photos, but point is, we were to some degree able to “try before we buy” on this size and arrangement of layout. One difference is ours will have a few more cabinets but will not have the walk-in pantry they have here. Also, we have a range with double oven instead of a wall oven, and we don’t have a counter depth double wide fridge/freezer combination.
After taking measurements again and looking at the space, I do agree that 36” may be too narrow, making it so that the space behind the sink in the seating area would be tight. If I take 4” from each aisle, I can achieve the same width as here, but will end up with 56” aisles on the long ends. I’m hoping this will be enough for the wheelchair, but I do think the 5’ work width is great, as here it allows one person to work at both the stove and sink with enough room for someone to squeeze by in between. Plus, no more bruises on my ankles from the dishwasher door when it’s down. Our cabinet lady said any overhang greater than 12” may be an issue with lack of support for the weight, and if we do widen the island, there will be a 19” overhang on the seating area and a 7” overhang on the back storage area, assuming 1” overhang on the working side.
I also took your advice and planned out where all our stuff would go. I ended up with a couple extra spots for growth or extra stuff I may not have thought of. I know some of the placements may seem odd, but I’m trying to really arrange it according to how we live.
No cleaning supplies where I have to worry about kids getting them, a hamper for all the towels we use to clean up instead of having them on a pile on the floor until we can walk them to the hamper in our closet, a spot for cereal and pasta near where we use them and near where the milk will be stored in the beverage fridge, and spots for my daughters school and homework papers as well as crayons/ markers/ pencils and glue. I even have a cabinet to stash my mountains of medical bills and insurance papers I work on weekly. I’m always working at the kitchen counter and my fantasy that I’d do it all in my office never came to fruition. I might as well plan accordingly for the reality of how I function. I also have the baking and dough making supplies near the baking area, with a the kitchen aid lift across it on the island. We make pizza a lot and this will be great.
Any advice is welcome. You’ve been such a help so far! I’ll probably repost this as a new post, too, for more advice.
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