The sale is because its just end of season....depending on the bulbs/species, most of the usual bulb places I haunt are sold out in what seems like late summer/early fall already.

I've never ordered from Brecks but when I was planning some last minute add-ons 2 weeks ago, Brecks seemed okay on pricing ?

I'm not sure about Brecks, but Van Engelen has the 40 % sale on bulbs.

I hear you. Usually my pre-order/order on bulbs are done by mid-late summer. And AFAIK, almost every time after I'm done planting *early November*, and decided to add another XYZ and decide to make a last minute order, whenever I've gone back to CB, VE, JS, etc, the bulbs I would want if not 85+% of their selections are already sold out. So the ~sale~ that we speak of IMO is more just blowing out inventory sale.

I suppose we can compare/analogize that to the end of fall shrub/tree blowouts as well..

I know . I just order some double late tulip bulb from van. Bougardien an sons, Eden Brothers and tulips world. The price was so great. Do you guys beleive the double tulips will perennialize or just for one season?

Isn't that kind of Murphy's law? Planting time for spring flowering bulbs can often creep into the season of inclement weather :-) Here, it is the incessant late fall rain that is a problem as the ground is soaked and really shouldn't be worked at all.

TT, I doubt you will get much perennialization from the double or peony flowering tulips. They will come up the second season but generally just some half hearted foliage. Very few tulip types aside from the species will reliably reflower in their second season foliage. That trait has just been bred out of them.

My curiosity is PEAKED . I never looked at these dates but due to BR post, how early will reputable bulbs suppliers like the ones we are discussing ship ~fall planted bulbs~. Granted, once planted, the bulbs are in the enviroment planted 365 days a year

I'm tempted to purchase a few bulbs and store the pots in our unheated garage. Then when Spring rolls around, I can bring them out and place them outside. Hmmm....

Typically I think shipping starts in August or September.

Anybody does a EARLIER planting than ~best practice recommended~

For me, the summer-fall period is sorta weird.

It's rainy. Then there are periods where it does not rain - so one has to watch the forecast. I tend to time mine so that the typical hurricane leftover rains, etc are gone....and plant them after a few days of sun.

And then of course the pre-winter rain starts so it really is a weather forecast hawk watch planting time affair

Earlier should be fine..after all, they will live in the ground perpetually if men didn't dig them up.

I'm always digging up bulbs accidentally, and they just get replanted because like you say, they live there anyway so the timing doesn't really matter.

Bought bulbs are a different story. They're usually 'cured' for a few weeks to dry them out and get them fully dormant. If they're planted early when the soil is still too warm word is they are more likely to rot... although I'm always running behind so I've never actually tried it :)

I just want to add that for the first fall ever I have successfully resisted all clearance sales. I feel ok with not having a box on its way in December, but I know I'll probably regret it in April!

I do admit to planting in December last year, but...mine were from Arizona locally grown stock, mostly dug to order...so storage time wasn't an issue and though selection was a little small, they did absolutely better than stored bulbs in their first year. Oh my god, the anemone blanda produced plants with 2-3 times the vitality of dried Dutch stock.

katob -

regarding the ~cured~ wording. I've been wondering about this - or the relationship of bulbs of a very wet summer season or fall season.

How is the hardiness of bulb rot relative different in a bulb that is established with roots in dirt, or a bulb that is in dirt but has yellowed out foliage or no foliage (established in dirt but has gone dormat) , versus a newly fresh planted bulb in late fall - relative to WET soil.

it's been on my radar to google said difference in hardiness

I'm not sure at all, but just guessing I'm going to say that the first thing a 'cured' bulb will likely do when planted is take on water and maybe that leads to something or allows other pathogens to enter the bulb.

I think (politely) I call misinformation and BS. If a bulb is equipped to handle a climate, it can handle that climate during the growing season. Due to the 'antifreeze' that bulbs/plants develop AFTER they start growing, there may be a possibilty of bulbs freezing if planted too late in the season into abrupt cold weather, but even that is probably no different than taking a hothouse (but hardy) plant from it's 70F environ and planting it in 10F garden in January. Simply abrupt shock to it's system.

Curing in a bulb is just the process of dehydration that makes them store better. It's nothing good for the bulb, it's good for the shipper who doesn't want as much rotting to occur.

What is the growing behaviour of bulbs. Unless I was mistaken

I thought that they go dormat when leaves drop. Roots shunt down per se in the hot months. Then as it cools down, roots come alive and actually some sprouting may occur but it stops once it get's close to the top and feels the elements. Than it starts the full blown emergence once the weathers starts warming up but starting during fall, it is growing to some degree....just very sloooowly.

It totally depends on the bulb and the climate it is adapted to, but as a general rule, you are fairly accurate. Foliage (typically) for the traditional bulbs doesn't initiate growth much till after they experience X days of cold.

Many bulbs have persistent roots (the ones that don't are probably the exception versus the rule).

Of course there are MANY bulbs that depend on a wet/dry cycle, take habranthus or zephyranthes for example. There are tons in Africa that depend on that cycle and have nothing to do with cold periods.

dbarron, not sure what you're referring to as misinformation. What you say regarding hardiness sounds about right, I mentioned rot in regards to an early planting of dormant bulbs vs the summer transplant of established bulbs. Most of the common bulb offerings such as tulips and daffodils can be planted as long as the soil can still be worked and hardiness has nothing to do with it. I've even broken through an inch or so of frozen soil to tuck in the last of my bulbs and they always do fine.

I would think that curing a bulb for shipping would be real important for the health of the bulb. Who would want a load of rotten tulips? I'm guessing you mean that bulbs do just fine in the soil without curing and it's only in order to sell them.

A1an that's pretty accurate for fall planted bulbs, but even some of the bulbs which you think go completely dormant don't. I've dug daffodils in the middle of summer which still have roots and then a few weeks later they're already growing more in preparation for fall. Something like a tulip though is different. It grows a completely new bulb each year while all the old bulb and roots die.

Yes, geophytes (plants with underground storage organs, like bulbs) are quite varied, you can hardly make absolute blanket statements.

One more for the tech talk wiki

OKAY. Wet feet = bulb rot.

I suppose other virus can cause other issues to ground planted bulbs.

What causes bulbs to go ~mush~ when in dry/cured stage. Why do dry bulb crocus tend to get a bit more moldier than tulipia

Gr8 post Dbarron. You lost me at hello !

I can count the # of times I've gotten a bad order on my hands.

One particular year, the order just felt off. More than a few were bruised to what *felt normal*, there was 2-3 soft ones out of a hundred bag. My gut was telling me something was off. Sure enough, only 60 out of 100 came out. And when it bloomed, only half bloomed to a paltry size. The others came up short. All of them seemed to yellow out 10 days after bloom. Vendor comped me back on the following seasons order but I like reading this *garden tech wiki* stuff !

Yeah, it's not normal to get bad bulbs, but you can (and I have...but you quickly learn to not reorder from bad vendors)..

I had really bad luck with bulbs this past year that I ordered from Brecks. Several outages (so no bulbs), crocus in bad shape and almost none came up (when I grow that species..so not my fault), camassia that were huge but didn't bloom (any of the ten). Yeah that yellow out was what happened to the surviving crocus that I mentioned. I just asked for a refund and stopped ordering there.

Sometimes, it's worth it to pay 3x the price for a single bulb that will live, grow, and multiply versus one that doesn't grow. It's hard on the pocket book though :(

If you're not sure about ordering from a new vendor don't forget to check them out on 'Garden Watchdog'. It's not perfect but there are a few companies that have overwhelmingly terrible reviews that you might want to avoid.

I'm not really a fan of Breck's. The photoshopped catalog, made up names, color enhanced pink daffodils, ridiculously overpriced items already price slashed when the catalog is printed... and then still overpriced...

sorry but I feel like they take advantage of people.

Yep, been posting on GW for more than fiveteen years. Yeah, I had decided not to order from them quite a number of years ago, but then they seemed to have lots I wanted last year, so I thought I'd give them another chance. I do think it's the last one.

I've found that bulbs (since typically raised elsewhere) are the least susceptible to bad growers/retailers, but sometimes I guess the retailer is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I almost made it. Brent and Becky went to 50% off today and I ordered plenty. I guess I'll figure out what to do when they get here but right now the ground is frozen over and for at least the next week night temps are in the low 20's and teens. There's a good chance I'll be potting up a lot of stuff.

Not exactly my smartest decision.... but.... well.... I guess we'll see :)

With all this talk about curing and whatnot, katob, be sure to post back on whether are bulbs are mush or firm, etc. I'm curious. I've never purchased, stored or planted bulbs past mid November. I'm curious

What? No day after Christmas planting with snowflurries drifting around your spade?

I'll post a photo when they arrive.

Ha. Seems like it's been a yearly thing for awhile, but I run a tight ship with a crazy schedule from what seems like the ~fast sprint~ of the holidays. The week leading up to Thanksgiving into the New Years. Who's got time to play in dirt ;-)

Ooops. The bulbs arrived last week and have been planted without any pictures being taken. They looked good, a few ornithogalum dubium bulbs looked like the were out of the ground too long and the anemone corms looked as dried out and dead as ever but we'll see. The alliums looked perfect and were planted outside in a spot where the soil thawed enough, the rest (plus a bunch of hyacinths) are potted up in the garage for forcing.