I think about this a lot. Farm workers and landscape laborers are often very hard working immigrants around here.

I had a new carpet laid in my bedroom a few months ago and that entire crew spoke Spanish.

I've read that this country depends heavily on immigrants to do the jobs that - to your point - no one else wants to do....

Since we are in Arizona, we get a lot of Mexican workers that don’t speak much English. My husband and I try to do as much as we can around or inside the house, but sometimes we can’t do some jobs so we call a company and it’s normally some Spanish speakers that come. Which is actually great, because I know a decent bit of Spanish!

And it’s not neccasarily jobs we wouldn’t want to do, it’s jobs my husband and I CAN’T do.

This country would not run without immigrants. The truth of the matter is, immigrants have something to contribute. Some of them are movers and shakers of a different sort. I can't imagine moving to another country and learning an all new language, let alone customs, way of life. I find immigrants are admirable.

Those gentlemen had a great work ethic. I would have tipped them.

I thought about tipping before they came, Elizabeth, and maybe I should have thought longer about it. I probably rejected the idea because the guys who delivered the new freezer a few weeks ago (not immigrants) did a minimal amount of work and left a smell of cigarette smoke in the house. I didn't expect this experience to be much different, but it certainly was.

If I had tipped today's men, I would have had to move quickly because they trundled the freezer out the door and called, "Have a good day!" as they disappeared. And that was that.

Now I feel bad that I didn't, because while I dislike obligatory tipping I like to reward a job well done. One thing I did do was to call their dispatcher and praise the men for their politeness and the careful, efficient job they did. She promised to pass my message along to their supervisor.

Here in South Texas there is much more Spanish spoken than English. (Although I don't think it is true 'Spanish', more likely 'Mexican' or 'Tex-Mex'.)

"It's been said we need immigrants to do the jobs no one wants to do."

That may or may not be true, I honestly don't know. Personally, I have nothing at all against LEGAL immigrants (I am first generation American). They are, for the most part, honest and hard working, good people truly looking for a way to better themselves and live a better life than they had in their home country. But I am a firm believer that the illegal immigrants need to be stopped!

Rusty

I very much hold immigrants in high esteem. I'm a scaredy-cat by nature and find it hard to imagine myself moving to a different country with a different culture and different language.

"I can't imagine moving to another country and learning an all new language, let alone customs, way of life."

Many of these people are leaving oppressive/dangerous/opportunity lacking places and are happy to be here and eager to live their lives in safety. This is not restricted to the US, refugees and immigrants from awful places that have the opportunity to do better in any other developed country often follow the same pattern.

Where it can go wrong is where an underprivileged underclass develops and a cycle of poverty sets in. For anyone, whether newly arrived or long settled, education and assimilation are usually the paths children follow to have a better life than their parents. There are plenty of Americans whose ancestors arrived long ago who themselves live in relative poverty or in low income circumstances. People of all colors and races. It's not just a phenomenon of easily identifiable (and often vilified) racial or ethnic groups.

Rusty, you and I are incredibly lucky to be here, by birth (or possibly winning a lottery,) but many more are not so lucky. When you and your family are threatened by violence or starvation, you WILL do what's necessary to survive--this is a human instinct that will not be denied. Who are we to tell people willing to risk everything to suck it up and stick it out?

I also had non-English speaking crews for carpet installation and concrete porch slab replacement this year, and roofing and gutters several years ago. All 3 jobs had sloppy, erroneous, and/or incomplete work that needed to be revisited and redone by the contractors. In those three instances I would guess that they were cheap labor hired not for their skill but for what they were willing to work for in pay.

On the other hand, my re-roof this year was also a non-English speaking crew that did excellent work. I know that our agriculture industry in the state, including landscaping and greenhouses, rely extremely heavily on immigrant (and a lot of undocumented) labor.

I don't blame the workers so much, except in the cases like I and my co-workers in San Diego experienced of having our homes robbed and vehicles stolen to supply household goods to the newly arrived and transportation to smugglers.

The vast majority do hard work, many strive to do it very well.

The problem is our own population who will whine about not being able to "find a job" when what they mean is they don't want to do dirty, hard or unpleasant work or perhaps even learn the skills. My nephew went into horticulture and is enjoying the hard outdoor work. My brothers worked on roofing crews to pay for college. My mother's family farmed and mined and considered it honorable work. Why did this change?

" Who are we to tell people willing to risk everything to suck it up and stick it out?"

The answer is, who we are is a country with laws that cannot allow unlimited immigration. Every other developed country in the world has similar policies to ours, many even accept fewer immigrants as a percentage than we have historically. Poverty and problems in other countries need to be addressed where they exist. The problem is, in many of these places, corruption, cultural practices that haven't modernized to the world of today and violence present formidable barriers for progress.

This is my opinion as a very middle of the road person whose views often differ from both Republican and Democrat dogma.

Through various actions in the last 100 years, our government supported or caused many of the political and economic problems that plague central and south america. So yes, controlled immigration is the goal. But maybe the Pottery Barn rule of you break you buy it applies.

I do want to add to my above comment, that the crew who worked on remodeling my kitchen did tell me that they and their friends in construction were having trouble landing jobs due to competition from undocumenteds who would work for less pay.

Elmer has entered the chat!!!

Tennessee, you entered the chat, too with a comment that doesn't contribute much.

Edited---I missed your first comment and was referring to the last one.

This is the part I have a problem with:

> ... competition from undocumenteds who would work for less pay.

Extensive, expensive, ongoing efforts at stopping illegal immigration have worked about as well as the similar efforts at stemming the influx of illegal drugs. ie. pretty much not at all.

However nearly every time an undocumented immigrant works at a job for less pay, there is a employer involved who knowingly -- and illegally -- hired that undocumented worker because that person was willing to accept less pay. If the employers either faced actual serious consequences for hiring undocumented workers, or if the employer was officially allowed to hire undocumented workers, but was required to pay some tax, fee or surcharge per worker per hour for doing so, the unfair competition mentioned above would be decreased.

where is the I-love-your-incredibly-spot-on-comment button? Well said Bob

With the thoroughly abnormal amount of rain we've had this summer and fall, I've observed several leaks and realize I must face the fact that a new roof is in my future. I've asked friends for roofer recommendations, and those who recently had roofing work done said the workers (from different companies) all spoke Spanish and all did an outstanding job.

The last roof I put on the house was done by a local man and his local crew, and they did excellent work. Ditto for the porch roof, which was redone when I had the porch remodeled--different local two-man team.

But when I had a new roof put on the barn about 12 years ago, that was a disaster. I contracted with a local man who was working on a public building at the time. He told me he was the foreman for a well-known contractor in the area. I figured he knew what he was doing, but I should have done more research. He turned my barn roof job over to three local young men I'll call the Three Junior Stooges. Not only did they not know what they were doing, but they ended up stealing my husband's welder. One of them later admitted to the police that they tried to steal my generator too, but couldn't get it out the barn door.

Within days after the barn roof was completed, the roof started peeling off. Many promises from the guy I contracted with, none of which came to pass. I lost work days staying home to meet him when he never showed up. I gave up and wanted to sue him, but had to wait until he could be served at an address. Finally he had an address--jail, for some criminal offense. I knew I wouldn't get a cent from him, but I sued anyway.

Anyway, after this experience the thought of hard-working, Spanish-speaking roofers sounds delightful. :-)

In my experience employers frequently pay undocumented workers who use counterfeit ssn's. Taxes are paid but no benefits accrue. I have listened as someone from the IRS told me to simply keep collecting taxes. In my local restaurant market there is a strong demand for Latin workers legal or not. They tend to be reliable and hard workers. I don't think they are paid significantly less (def way above min. wage) and it is risky to the employer.

The issue with our present immigration system is that it is heavily weighted towards highly educated people from a very few countries none of which does a thing for all the also ran in the world . You go on a list and your grandkids might make it to the top of the list if you are from a country we don't favor. We used to have a generous guest worker program that brought in the workers who wanted to do these hard and disagreeable jobs, It became dominated by people who used it to abuse the workers. That is something that could easily be fixed instead of tossing most of the program.

The problem is our own population who will whine about not being able to "find a job" when what they mean is they don't want to do dirty, hard or unpleasant work or perhaps even learn the skills.

This is a big problem with the younger generations.

Gotta ask, why won't American's that are physically able to work and unemployed do these jobs?

Raye, entitlement

i will piggy-back on bob_cville.

i agree with all his points and will add this one: if employers would pay a decent wage and BENEFITS, then they would have legal workers.

the illegals don't spend their pay here in America, they send it home to help their families. i get that, but our economy suffers b/c of it. and they don't pay into SS, Medicare etc, Taxes, so again our economy suffers...

the illegals are on the gravy train that our government &/or companies created, so not their fault, just taking advantage of a greedy situation.

That's some really great food for thought sprtphntc. I realized a long time ago, all the profit goes into their pockets and benefits keep getting slimmer, but I hadn't gone that far with it all. So true

A suggestion for those that want to tip but feel awkward about doing so. Provide the money as lunch or dinner money depending on the amount. Recently I hired a handyman service to finish and recaulk windows. No more standing on ladders over window wells for me. The two older Hispanic men that actually did the work I provided money toward their lunch both days they were here. At first they did not want to take the money because they kept saying "no tips" but they did accept the money for lunch. Part was pride part was worry about loosing job. What they did with the extra money was on them. I made certain I gave the money to them when the lead was gone. Some leads would have pocketed the money and the workers would never see a dime.

Unless they are being paid totally under the table the average illegal uses illegal paper so they do pay into all the government things like SS and Medicare and taxes but cant claim any of it.

Another point is that while you wouldn't think so, jobs like picking crops, weeding, pruning and so forth are in fact way more skilled than you would think. To do the job without injuring the plants is a skill. Bending over for hours a day is something you have to harden up for. A lot of the work is seasonal. You have to move around. That is a problem for the average American worker. You need to check out migrant workers quarters on farms.

Sprtphntc, the 'illegals' DO spend some of their money here. They have to pay for a place to stay, food to eat, usually some clothes (especially if they are working construction, which is hard on clothes.) Some types of construction requires specific types of safety clothes, boots, hard hats, specific tools, etc., and some have vehicles so they must buy gas, tires, tags. As Patriciae said, most of them use illegal papers so they do pay into all the required government pots, they just receive none of the benefits. Does the rest of the money go back to their home country - yes.

The phrase they do the work that we don't want to do" bothers me a lot. There are people who come into our country who are doctors and those who owned their own business and they will do what ever they have to do to become citizens. It is not always the case that they want to spend the rest of their life doing what AmericanS don,t want to do. I believe the people that come into our country want to be honest citizens. They also would like to have an education and also renew their doctors licenses and start over again and have another business as they did before they fled from their country... As motivated as they are to get an education and to have a family and be respected in their community, they want the middle class status like everyone else. I think of these people as bringing in their talent and using their brains. And you best believe that they want their children to rise up higher than they have. It is sickening to me what immigrants, legal, illegals are thought of.

Maggie, describing immigrants as being willing to "do the jobs no one wants to do" is not an insult. It's not saying they're incapable of doing any but relatively menial work; it says they're motivated to--as you said--do whatever they have to do. It was not my intention to demean immigrants. Quite the opposite. If you didn't read appreciation and admiration into my original post, I didn't do a good enough job writing it.

Alisande, my comment was not a response to you at all. I meant just what you said about motivation and passion. i have known so many good people who are great role models for their families and others who want to come. their contributions are many. I knew some of the LostBost of thevSudan in the documentart God Grew Tured of Us done by National Geographic. It is either on Prime or YouTube. My calling is Outreach to the many who are fighting tribes, gun violance etc. around the witld. if you see the documentary, you will see I am proud to call them friends and role models. Sorry for any misinterpretation.

Maggie the project engineer for our area is an immigrant who finally obtained citizenship. When he first came to this country he took many jobs that most would look down their noses at. He had already completed the necessary study in his country but lacked the time and money to pass the tests necessary to become an engineer in the US. From busboy, to chef, to working for landscaping company doing the digging he did all of it. He was willing to do it as many are that come here from other countries because he could not find a job in his field. You mention doctors. Are you aware that to become an MD in this country you have to go through a residency. Most residencies will not accept you if you will be older than 35 by the time you finish. This is the reason that many foreign trained doctors are DO's because the requirements are different. The people may have been fully qualified in their own country and be the only specialist in their field but no MD's for them.

My point was that if you put yourself and your family in the place of many illegal immigrants, chances are you would do exactly what they are doing in attempting to come here. Survival is a powerful impetus.

I agree. We have to help and I don't know how. There is a civilized way to do this but the Senate will vote it down. I have seen the worst comments on FB concerning their lives.. how we feel about sending them back and others feel is the difference between life and death. This is far worse than when we took Cubans into our country. No riots here then

In the 80's and 90's I worked in a steel factory as a welder. A lot of Asian, South Americans worked in the factory.

I had a young guy (18-ish) work with me one day, a Canadian. At lunch time, he threw down his gloves and said This is too hard. I'm not doing this sh*t, and didn't come back. LOL

Jasdip that is soso funny. One of my memories in my off and on time on here was how competent you are and could tackle many different projects, then make a great meal. You were someone people depended on. So you were a welder. Skilled labor and hard wor and good pay. Good woman

Hah, my first husband got a job as a laborer in the local steel mill. Basically shoveling slag, for $8/hr. At that time I was working in the hospital for minimum wage ($2.34). He quit, said it was "too hard". I told him that it was paid well enough for him to find it wasn't all that hard! Later when unemployed again, he took a job at the local convenience store on the overnight shift. Once again, working all night was "too hard" (at that point I had put in a few years on nights). That was it, I was done with him!

$8.00 an hour was a lot of money for many years Not taking jobs one doesn’t like is a bad habit when you need the money

For a husband to not support his family by taking a job he doesn't like is more that a bad habit, I would call that irresponsible behavior.

My parents are immigrants as are probably a lot of your parents/grandparents too. When my dad first moved to Canada he couldn't get a job in his field: steam engineer. His first job was putting the hardware on kitchen cupboards. He did that for a few months before finally landing a job that could pay the bills. My parents moved here from The Netherlands with my then 5 year old and 3 year old sister. I was born just five months after they immigrated. None of them could speak English (it wasn't taught in schools back then like it is now). They relied heavily on a friend of a mutual friend to find housing and that first job. My dad is still friends with that mutual friend today. As a matter of fact, if anyone follows Canadian football, dads friends brother is the football player who caught the football and took it over the line for Calgary to win the Grey Cup in the early 70's. I still remember hearing my mom screaming, "RUN RUDY! DON'T DROP IT! RUN!" (He was famous for dropping the ball). lol My parents have become very successful privately owned business people, retiring early and travelling the world. Because of them, I see immigration in a whole different way, as long as you cross the border with the right paperwork in hand.

Raye Smith it was indeed irresponsible, and I believe that is a problem amongst some of the unemployed in our country.

Debby, many of us have a similar story in our ancestry. My great grandfather, for one of several examples in my family, came here without English skills, from a family that made (by hand) and sold fishing nets in Russia. He started with a hand pulled cart and collected scrap metal. Within five years (the shortest time possible) he had his citizenship, and within 7 years owned his own factory and real estate.

When people turn up their noses and complain about the folks who come around on trash day looking for scrap metal and items to re-sell, I think of my great-grandfather and cheer them on. They are showing the same kind of initiative.

raee, Reduce, Reuse, RePurpose Recycle , i am all for that!! good for your GGD!!

people do it around here and i am glad for it, if they can 'make a buck', go for it!!

"Are you aware that to become an MD in this country you have to go through a residency. "

Not exactly true. MD is an academic degree. If you go to medical school in a foreign country and it confers an MD degree to graduates, then you have those initials after your name. What you don't have is a license to practice medicine - THAT'S what requires completing a US (or Canadian) residency.

"This is the reason that many foreign trained doctors are DO's... . "

I don't think this is true.

Half our cab drivers and cleaners are professionally trained in the medical field in other countries. To get their licence in Canada is so expensive, most of them can't afford to go to school for the upgrades so they have to resort to those jobs we don't want: cab driver and cleaner.