Very good question! I too have always wondered what would be considered damask and what not. In my experience, Perfume Delight has the fragrance most similar to 'damask rose' scented products so I consider that damask. I would describe Mister Lincoln as lychee, Fragrant Cloud as clove, Fair Bianca as myrhh, Munstead Wood as fruity, and Pink Peace as citrusy.

Everyone smells things differently, but here's my nose's two cents.

If you want to learn what Damask (aka "old rose") smells like there's nothing safer to sniff than one of the Damasks grown for the rose oil trade. Try Ispahan or Kazanlik or the repeating Autumn Damask.

Once you know what Damask alone smells like, it's easy to pick it out in roses that are a mix. Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona) is Damask and spice. La France is Damask and lemon/citrus.

Tea roses, to me, usually smell fruity. Duchesse de Brabant smells like raspberries.

For Clove I remember Blush Noisette having that element, and oddly, Dainty Bess. (But for the best floral clove, nothing can beat the clove scented carnations and pinks.)

Myrrh. Different opinions on this one. I've smelled some that remind me of soap while others claim it should smell like licorice/anise. I have a Fair Bianca on order for Spring with Roses Unlimited. I'm looking forward to smelling that one. Will it be soap, licorice, or something else entirely?

The most frustrating of all are those that are supposed to be very fragrant, but, as you put it in your subject line, smell like nothing at all. Nancy Lee is like that for me. Annoying because I like the flowers and plant, and it's SUPP[OSED to be fragrant, but......nothing.

I didn't like the fragrance of Jude the Obscure for some reason, though others praised it. On the other hand, James Galway is supposed to have a faint fragrance, but I find it very pleasantly sweet if you stick your nose in the flower.

Madame Anisette while it has some fragrance and not typical rose....i personally wouldnt call super fragrant (or of anise but that may just be me and the comparison to licorice because it smells nothing like that to me more soapy).

Possibly the same situation with tea scents. The descriptions were made a long time before the processed scents that have the name now.

I can smell ebb tide but it is not a clove scent at all.

Rise N Shine and Many Happy Returns smells of nothing to me but both are listed as fragrant.

Everyone smells things differently. My mother smells things similarly to most people except when it comes to skunk. She can't smell it at all, not even a little. Most people don't find much fragrance in Knockouts (the original one), but to me they have a lovely sweet wafting fragrance. Too bad I find them very ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Unlike my mother, I'm hyperosmic (I have an exaggerated sense of smell). I grew Mrs. BR Cant because she is supposed to be very fragrant, but I could smell almost nothing in her flowers, and I can smell something in almost any rose. Fragrance is in the nose of the sniffer.

There is nothing like sniffing a rose yourself to determine if you can detect it or not. Or to determine if you like it or not. But even then, the fragrance of a particular variety of rose is very variable. It depends on the humidity level (since many fragrances are transported in water droplets, different fragrances get transported differently to your nostrils depending upon humidity level). Glamis Castle smelled like mothballs in my garden, but in Oregon at Heirloom roses, it smelled delightfully rosy to me. Fragrance in a rose also depends on the temperature (again the transport issue, but also if it is more volatile, it will drift out of the rose before you smell it if the temperature is too high), time of day you sniff it (as the temperature of the day changes, but I also believe that a rose may produce different molecules as the day goes on). My roses seem most fragrant just as the sunlight hits them in the morning. The fragrance of a rose, in both strength and quality depends also upon the way it is grown, the nutrients in the soil, the age of the bush. StrawChicago on this forum has commented in the past on this, giving a plant certain nutrients may change the color of the flowers (i.e. making it a deeper pink), and also the fragrance. When I first planted Alnwick Castle, I was disappointed that the first flowers had no fragrance. Then a year or two later, it produced an incredibly strong raspberry fragrance and it has been strong since.

I don't think "Damask" is a specific fragrance but a range of fragrances that I overall would call "heavy." To me, "Damask" is heavy on the lower notes of fragrance, light on the higher notes, and moderate in the mid-notes. Sandlewood is a good comparison. Mr. Lincoln is a good example to me, and it definitely has a lychee component, that I wouldn't say is in all "Damask" fragrances. I agree with bellegallica that you should smell the Damask roses grown for fragrance to see what this smells like. But this is only my opinion.

Fragrance is linked tightly with memory and emotion (which is what people refer to when they talk about the Limbic System). So when people say "old rose", that description depends upon a person's history and associated emotion. And as we know, "old roses" have very different fragrances, for example the yeasty Souvenir de la Malmaison, the musky Marie Pavie, the clove of R. rugosa. I think that people overlap "old rose" with Damask, but again, it is a matter of perception and opinion. I think that the term "old rose fragrance" came about when people were comparing the plasticky smell of the hybrid teas or florist roses of the time to that of more strongly fragranced roses, but I find that the term now seems to mean a rose with stronger mid-tones.

I would suggest that you smell as many roses as you can, in as many different situations as you can, and you will learn what you like, and don't like. When we travel, I'm always running off to smell various roses, in sometimes awkward places. I'm sure people think I'm crazy.

I was hoping noseometer would pop up! I am absolutely fascinated by that reptile brain link to smell, how you can smell a stranger's cologne or whatever and bam, a breathtakingly vivid memory will stop you in your tracks.

So for something that powerful, it's amazing how hard it is for most people to describe and how differently we perceive things. Just yesterday a couple hours after I posted this, my husband had DdB in his face and I said "that's my favorite rose smell!" Then he went to Angel's Camp Tea (which is completely filled out and blooming like "what thrips?") and I told him that one doesn't smell like much and he was like "this one smells more rosy than the first one!" ACT is my MVP but so far I smell exactly nothing. Go figure. He's obviously the better wine taster (I'm the better wine drinker) but I love how there's a word for "everything that went into the growing of this plant including soil and temperature." If terroir can change the way a grape tastes surely it will change the way a rose smells.

Jin: For wafting, I keep hearing Marie Pavie. I have it and it's lovely, but it's a thripsy baby at the moment so I'll have to check for wafting on this next flush. Or you could just get a sweet olive and pretend that fragrance is coming from whichever rose you like. ;) Talk about wafting!

I am taking this thread with me to the botanical gardens on free Wednesday!

This is super interesting, thank you all! I hope folks will continue to chime in because I think about this all the time and I simply cannot pay attention to work today.

I love this thread and all of the interesting comments! So this year I planted a few strawberry hill roses from DA and I did get a few small blooms. They smelled so different than any other rose I've smelled. I still can't decide if I like it or not, but I could not stop smelling that rose to figure it out! It was so intriguing and I kept driving my family crazy forcing them to smell this rose. I said I think it smells like "pretty" soap and they said, it smells like a rose... (no help at all...). It made me happy to read Bellegallica say myrrh smells like soap to her! I looked up what DA says about strawberry hill and it is supposed to be myrrh. So I guess myrrh can smell similar to soap, as Bellegallica mentioned. This is a fun side to rose gardening because for me, I need a rose to have scent. That's such an important part of a rose for me. I love the comparison to wine drinking as well Lyanna. And I completely agree with you that if the terroir can be variable for grapes, why not with roses too!

To me, the clove fragrance of the rugosas is the best of all.

I love the smell of a good bourbon rose. The roses that are known to waft rarely do so in my dry climate. That being said, I occasionally catch the scent of Felicia in the spring if it’s not too dry out and she’s having a big flush.

Noseometer, I find it interesting that your mother can’t smell skunk. I CAN smell the scent of skunk, but unlike most people, I like it. I don’t mean I’d like to wear it as a perfume, or anything. But, the first whiff of skunk scent in the air is pleasant to me. Just the first few whiffs are pleasing and then I’ve had enough, but I don’t find it offensive like most people do. Interesting, isn’t it? Lisa

That's funny Lisa about the skunk! Good thing we have a lot in our area! Do you have a favorite bourbon rose? I'm still thinking about that Felicia you are mentioning. It is sounding better and better....

That's so funny about the skunk Lisa! I just find all scents fascinating and very few actually disgust me. That's why I still want the rugosa Agnes that has such a bizarre fragrance. I totally understood once I realized Rosa foetida was one of its parents. It definitely inherited that! I read that scepter'd isle is myrrh and it definitely has an unusual fragrance but I like it. Tess often has a different fragrance to me also. The type of Rose I most want to get I believe is a species Rose but I can't recall the name anymore unfortunately. It has a resinous smell that extends to its leaves so perhaps someone recognizes that description and can help me with it. If I had that Rose I would stand by it all day rubbing its leaves. I think the most outstanding roses for scent that I have thus far are climbing Crimson Glory and Nahima.

Lisa, my very first impression of skunk is neutral to positive on account of its similarity to another plant. But if it’s an actual skunk that goes away on the second sniff! I only have two bourbons and the one with the fragrant reputation (Zephy) hasn’t bloomed yet, but I love SdlM, beer smell and all (hate beer, love smelling beer).

Related: People always say you either like cilantro or it smells like soap. I say BOTH! How can you call it guacamole without some nice clean soapy cilantro?

Thanks to everyone, this is all so fun to read and genuinely educational. Right now all I can think about is the tiny, poorly planned sweet/tea olive blooming its fool head off and you can smell it all the way down the block. Nothing else smells quite like it, I should use that as a reference point for scent. Sweet olivey. Luckily we were too lazy to SP it all this time (it’s so scraggly and we have a much healthier specimen across the yard with zero flowers). Procrastination sometimes pays off in gardening, one of my favorite things about it.

Jin, thank you for such kind words, your posts are always a delight. Always! And I’ve even managed to not ask you about my plumeria ;)

So rugosas = clove, soapy = myrrh maybe, damask = damask. I don’t know if any grow here, but have 2 gardens to visit this week. Nahema and Felicia sure come up a lot.

noseometer, there’s a novel called Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins that taught me about high notes/base notes etc. As with everything I loved in college, I am curious to see how it holds up! kindle store here I come.

Isn't civet (from the gland of a wild cat and similar to skunk) an ingredient in the finest perfumes?

I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say that skunk smell is pleasant, but I don't mind it. When very strong it has some soy sauce tones, interestingly enough. The smell always reminds me of acacia roots, as when I was a teenager I had to pull out all the hundreds of self sown acacia seedlings from garden. As far a cilantro goes, to me it does have a soapy aspect, but also a distinctly cilantro crispness. My taste buds certainly wouldn’t confuse it for soap. Sweet olive smells like apricot jam to me. I wish I could grow it here! I love that smell!

What David Austin calls myrrh doesn’t smell consistent from rose variety to rose variety to me. It depends on the rose. Sometimes what DA describes as myrrh smells like anise (Strawberry Hill), sometimes like juicy fruit gum (Carding Mill), sometimes like mothballs (Glamis Castle, Wollerton Old Hall). I can’t rely on that description to know what it smells like.

Lyannastarknola: I’m going to look up that book. I’ve never read a Tom Robbins book before. Thanks for mentioning it. BTW where did you get your Angel’s Camp Tea?

Marie Pavie didn’t have much fragrance in it’s first year, and I was very disappointed. In the second year, there were more flowers and there was a bit of fragrance. The third year, when I stuck my nose in a cluster and smelled a rather light fragrance, I figured that it just wasn’t going to be that fragrant for me, but then when I was walking around the garden, I kept smelling something that smelled delicious and rosy. Of course it turned out to be Marie. So give her some time. But even if she doesn’t develop wafting fragrance, she’s still a great rose.

Vaporvac: I also find very few floral fragrances that disgust me also (there are plenty of non-floral fragrances that disgust me - cleaning out the garbage disposal comes to mind...). I like to sniff Stapelia (Carrion Flower) just because it makes me laugh and say “It’s awful!”

Darlow's Enigma is my best "wafting" rose. It is planted near the front of my property and I have had people walking down the street stop and ask what smells so good.

You know, at this point I feel like I might as well try a DA rose or two. In theory some of them won’t get tree sized and that kind of where my priorities should be. And yet I just ordered Sui Mei Ren for no reason.

roseometer, I hesitate to recommend anything that was my favorite anything in 1995, but it blew my little mind so if you can grab it from the library it’s worth the trouble I think! I’m about to find out once I find that paperback in this house somewhere.

My Angel’s Camp Tea was a recommendation from Linda at Long Ago Roses as a substitute for Arcadia Louisiana Tea, and it has turned out to be a real champion. After a summer of chilli thrips, unicorn caterpillars (??!) and sunburn I really thought I’d killed my first rose. That was less than a month ago. I smell pepper in the summer but Linda and my husband apparently get something rosy and love it. Blooms are rather pink now but even when they fade in summer it’s a lovely parchment/ecru type color. It really is my MVP.

Apricot jam! How beautifully specific. I bet you’re a fun wine taster too. It’s the first weekend we can leave the doors open all day, which equals gumbo season, so everywhere I go today, inside or out, it smells so good I sigh audibly.

I get a lot of my tropical/weirdo plants from Logees and they now carry corpse flower. How can you not want something that opens that rarely and smells like no other plant? My parents have a few acres around their fishing cabin and I’m tempted to just secretly shove one in the wilderness then watch for the turkey vultures.

ACT today (terra cotta pot foot for scale) and a spring blossom.

Lyann, did Linda run out of Arcadia LT, and your ACT is a substitution for what you had wanted, or did Linda not recommend Arcadia? Your ACT is lovely.

Unfortunately my library doesn't carry Jitterbug Perfume in hard copy, only digital download, and I prefer real paper, since I spend so much time on the computer for work. Oh well, I may check it out anyway.

I've only tried one tea (Mrs. B.R. Cant) which wasn't happy with the winter here, but HMF describes ACT as hardy to the next zone colder, so it may be ok. One to add to my wish list! Thanks for showing your photos.

I, too, get plants from Logee's despite what seems like very high prices and shipping. The plants do arrive looking very good though, and you can get things that you can't get anywhere else.

I hear so many things about Darlow's Enigma. I wish I had a place to put such a large plant.

Sheila, Linda wasn't growing ALT at the time but recommended ACT as a similar found tea and one of her best performers. It was a very very good call! It's my healthiest rose by a mile.

noseometer, teas love it here a bit too much. I probably have too many for my small yard at the moment but we'll cross that giant house-eating bridge when we come to it. I see that many of them are borderline for you, but a few of them are probably worth some zone-pushing experimentation, especially if the weather will keep them to reasonable proportions. Duchesse de Brabant is the most sigh-worthy for me, with my favorite fragrance so far, and she has been very patient in a too-small pot while I try to decide where I have room for her. Once she gets in the ground I think she'll go nuts.

My rose garden sniffing excursion may have to wait a bit since it looks like a rainy week, but I am excited about all this great info! Many thanks to all for the nosepinions. :)

Lyanna, your rose sounds great. ALT has huge flowers I now found out, (first bloom in pot), but the weight causes the flower to hang down. I'll have to think about positioning so the blossoms are visible.

Oh but they’re not hanging, Sheila, they’re “nodding” ;) It’s a Tea Thing! Honestly though, considering how big teas often get in places without freezing winters, those blooms are gonna be way above nose height in no time so it makes sense.

ACT does not nod for me though, for what it’s worth. Blooms very ruffly and flat, pretty much constantly (also in a pot). I’ve just been very very impressed with this rose, maybe this specific clone, shrugging off pests, disease, sun damage... I guess it’s why these roses get Found centuries later. How many roses in my garden would thrive after generations of neglect?

(Plus it’s a good California story which is almost as good as a good Louisiana story in this household.)

Lyanna, I hope ALT does nod in time rather than lay on the ground. Here's hoping!

This is such an interesting topic, and it is so nice to hear how everybody experiences smells (or not). I love the smell of rugosas. It is a childhood memory: I used to bike to school along a hedge of white and red rugosas, and would occasionally stop to bury my nose in one of those blooms. I have Fru Dagmar Hastrup, and when she is in full bloom, the fragrance wafts over the path to the front door. Mmmmmm.

I have two blooms of Munstead Wood inside. I find it a heavy and warm smell. I had never thought of it as fruity, but someone above mentioned raspberries, and now that I try again, I can kind of get it ;-). My best rose for fragrance is Heritage. For me, nothing beats that lemony and somewhat peppery smell. Even the foliage is peppery when you rub it. I also have Nahéma, but for me it comes second to Heritage. Strangely enough, I used to love myrrh scented roses (White Pet), but I now like them less, though I don’t in any way hate them. Funny smell.

I am absolutely fascinated by this and so glad to have so many different discussions. And that's how I am, with both wine and roses - someone with a better nose usually has to name the scent first, then I can smell it easily. Once I had my face in yellow jessamine all day trying to figure it out, and my teenage sister took one sniff and just said "fruit punch Jolly Rancher" and oh my god, that is exactly it.

I made a quick trip at lunch yesterday and the good news is that my roses look a thousand times better than the roses at the New Orleans Botanical Garden! Poor things, by which I mean the roses and the people who have to take care of them plus a few dozen other gardens. Plenty had blooms but very little foliage, which makes me think they must have cut off a lot of chilli thrips damage, which of course the old roses may not take kindly to. (There was plenty of visible damage as well.) They're also behind hedges, so difficult to sniff, but I did smell my first Mr. Lincoln! Many of them seemed like pretty young plants, although I did see a Clothilde Soupert about 7 feet tall with a couple of trunks bigger than my wrist, so I guess I might be rethinking where I put that one.

There wasn't a damask, portland, rugosa etc to be seen. Which, of course most backyards don't have them but I thought maybe this garden would. I will have to do some traveling in the spring!

The real Old Rose garden is at Louis Armstrong Park, and I can tell from the street that they are well cared for, mature specimens with plenty of foliage. I'll take my next non-rainy non-votey lunch hour there.

So I'm curious: what did you think of Mr. Lincoln's fragrance? Did you smell the litchi in it?

Damasks tend to be once-bloomers, so even if the botanical garden had them, they might not be in bloom (except for Quatre Saisons/Autumn Damask).

Wine tasting is fun. I once surprised the director of a wine tasting by describing what I smelled, even though I'm not much of a wine drinker. I'm more of a whisky drinker (without the "e"). I think the descriptions of whisky by the sellers are more implicative/fantastical and emotional than an actual smell/taste, descriptions like "Navy shipyard oil spill, grandmother's purse, ripe kiwifruit, tart tatin, wet dog and hard cherry candy, but surprisingly delightful." I sometimes smell totally different things than described. It's also fun to come up with our own fantastical descriptions. Especially after a wee dram or two. I once spent a whole evening in Inverness just smelling my now-empty glass of Balvenie triple wood (and listening to the live band) because it smelled so delicious. I'd wear it as a perfume if I could.

Speaking of delicious fragrances, there was a rose in California that I wish I knew what it was. Flowers were single, a good 6 inches across and tended to be at the end of a 12 foot tall extremely prickly single stem that grew from widely spreading underground suckers. The fragrance was so strong that I could smell it half way down the block. If my memory from 40 years ago serves me right, it was a sort of lemon custard clove scent, but memory has a way of changing over time.

I think you"emulated" just fine, Ingrid!I agree about La France and now want Suzanne. I passed it over earlier in the season, but maybe in the spring for my "wild" area. ;)

noseometer, wouldn't lovely woody whisky evaporate slowly on pulse points just like any other alcohol-based fragrance? There's quite a difference between the smell of whisky and the smell of someone who's been drinking whisky! I bet you'd get compliments. :) My husband is mostly a bourbon guy but I am slowly learning to drink Scotch with him, some of which I'm afraid still smells like Band-Aids to me. But I still sip it like a civilized human! I will learn! I didn't like wine at all until I was in my 30s (and hoo boy am I making up for lost time now) so I figure I have plenty of time to learn to smell smoke and peat. Maybe my Band-Aids are your oil spill, now that I think about it.

Re: Mr Lincoln, I had to google lychee, so I don't know if I did or not. :) I did notice it smelled....longer? Like it had a "finish" just like wine or whisky. You think you're done tasting it, but wait, there's more! First fruity then perfumey. Also it's a tiny bit hilarious that I completely forget that not all things bloom all year, and late October is not rose season.

I want to know what your giant single California rose is!

Ingrid, I'm so glad you joined us! You always add so much. The thread title isn't quite accurate, is it? And you're right, I think scent is tied to memory in more ways than one, that some things just smell ancient and primal. I honestly don't know what I'd do these days if I didn't have my own little world, and I'm a little bit terrified of the next few weeks when it's dark at 5pm. What do I do when I get home from work if not walk around the yard, saying hello to everything, then sit on the porch till the mosquitoes drive me in? Because watching the news is no longer an option.

I feel like I should have La France if only for its historical significance, but now I think fragrance too. I assume it would blackspot itself to death here, but maybe not before it gave me a couple of giant rosy-smelling blooms.

Ingrid, now I want to smell Lawrence Johnston (not going to happen in my climate) and Suzanne! It seems that the latter has been used in Canadian rose breeding, so I might run into it here. Royal Botanical Gardens?????

Ingrid, I love reading your posts (and seeing your photos). Now I wish I could smell Lawrence Johnston and Suzanne. Your comment on "Tyger, tyger, burning bright" (William Blake?) was so evocative.

Lyannastarknola, yes, I suppose I actually could wear the Balvenie as a fragrance. People might think I'm an alcoholic though, lol! I'd be swimming in headiness without even drinking any of it. All that caramel, and soft woodiness, I thought it was like dessert, but there is a sweet sexiness to it too... mmmmm. I've actually read a description of a whisky that included Band-Aids. I wasn't inspired to taste it. You've got to taste some lychee. They are delicious. If you can't get fresh ones at an Asian market, they will have canned ones, which are almost as good. I don't think that what you are describing is lychee, which I probably shouldn't even try to describe, but I think is sweet, light and crisp yet slightly woody or resinous. What you are talking about, in perfumery might be sillage (how long a fragrance lasts), or "dry down" (the way a fragrance changes as it is worn), but I don't think those are quite right because these terms apply to a fragrance that is worn and then slowly diffuses off the skin, but a rose you can go back to sniff. If you mean that as you continue to smell the rose, the fragrance changes, that has to do with how you get desensitized to the first scents and then notice others. If it has to do with how long the fragrance stays in your nose when you aren't sniffing the rose, that has to do with how long the fragrance molecules attach to and stimulate your receptors. Another way to look at it that I find interesting is that for some fragrances, we only have a few (relatively speaking) receptors, so that for roses like Marie Pavie, the fragrance is not a lot stronger close up than far away, because the receptors are saturated, or fully stimulated in either case, and because we don't have a lot of receptors for them, it doesn't smell that strong either way but seems to waft far.

Another rose that lingers in my memory is Lady Hillingdon. It's sometimes described as apricot, but the day I smelled it, it was definitely cantaloupe. One day I'll grow her, when I get over my aversion to yellow. I'm still sad that Jude the Obscure doesn't like my garden.

Tea roses can be yellow -- and also wild Persian roses.

noseometer, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. ;) Thank you for such wonderful thoughtful lovely comments, you are obviously a good person to have on this thread and this forum. Username checks out! If there is any indispensable reading on the subject I’d love some recommendations.

Today’s winner for fragrance is hands down Aunt Margy’s Rose, and this is the first I’ve seen of her “cool” weather color. It’s a bluer purple than it looks, very striking. A real superstar polyantha all around.

I thought that Annie Laurie McDowell isn't supposed to have any scent, but my husband Tom insists it is quite fragrant. I sniffed a rose he held up for me, and by golly it was very sweet. Maybe a one-off?

I'm only now coming back to this thread; that stupid thing called "life" interferes, and lately there seems to be not enough of the good in it, one way or another. lyanna, you are so right about the news, best not to tune in. You might want to joint me in going out in the garden with a flashlight, although perhaps not at midnight, as I tend to do. After a while in the dark I tend to remember the mountain lions and that drives me back inside. They like to attack from higher ground and we have a rock formation close to the house, and my imagination tends to go into overdrive when I'm out alone and the wilderness seems to press in on me in the dark.

noseometer, I'm fascinated and hugely impressed by your comments about fragrance which is a very complex subject whether it be about whiskey, fruit or roses, and much of it is beyond me. I have noticed how a scent can change when one continues to smell it which I think of as my nose getting "tired". After a short rest, the nose goes back to being able to detect the original smell.

vaporvac, I would be thrilled if you could have Suzanne in your garden and I could see it here when it blooms. I love its small leaves too, and I remember it as an all-around adorable rose.

lyanna, I'm so happy to see you have Aunt Margy's Rose! I have it also and have loved it for years. One doesn't often see that deep a color as yours has, but to me its small old-rose blooms are beautiful at all times. The fragrance is definitely a bonus, although not so strong for me now since we're terribly short of rain.

Rosefolly, I'm surprised that you feel Annie Laurie McDonnel should not have a fragrance since helpmefind describes it as having a strong, musk, sweet fragrance. I've certainly found it to be fragrant, although not overwhelmingly strong.

Lyannastarknola: Newsletter! Ha! I love it! I have no idea where I learned these things, other than during my neurology classes, so I have no idea what to recommend for reading. Of course I have lots of recommendations for SNIFFING though (there’s a tiny perfumery in Rome that is probably no more than 12 x 15 ft in size but lined top to bottom with bottles and each one is more amazing than the last). Your Aunt Margy’s Rose looks incredible. Funny that on HMF the member ratings for this rose’s fragrance is “poor.” So is it growing conditions or the person sniffing the rose that makes the difference in this case? Both?

Rosefolly: I’ve heard the flowers of Annie Laurie McDowell described as smelling of lilacs and lavender. I’d love to sniff that one. Where did you get yours? Is Burlington the only one that carries it?

Ingrid: I always find that the stupid thing called “work” interferes with the thing called “life.” Oh well. For some of us, “work” is a big part of “life.” Did you go vote? That might make you feel better. You get mountain lions that close to your house?! The ones around here stick to the mountains, which are only a couple of miles away from here, but they don’t venture down here. I'd be hesitant to go out in the garden at night with a rock overhang also, if there were moutain lions around. On the other hand, we get bears, and once a family of bobcats were in my driveway. I don’t know how aggressive toward humans they are, but they sure were cute. I’d like to see them around more. Maybe they’d eat the mice in the compost pile.

They stayed still enough for me to get this photo. Eventually they got bored and moved on, but they certainly were not afraid of us. No, not one bit.

Regarding your comment on scent fatigue: that’s why they have little cups of coffee beans at the perfume counters. The smell of coffee clears the nose and allows you to smell things again. It’s a good excuse to enjoy a shot of espresso in the garden, anyway. Well, except that drinking the coffee will affect the nose too long and then that's all you'd smell. You'd have to just sniff and not drink it ;-(.

Noseometer, what a wealth of interesting information. Thank you! And bonus bobcats, how can it get better?

Falling in Love won the Gamble Award for Fragrance a few years ago. I don't get a whiff of anything out of it.

noseometer, re hmf there aren't many ratings/comments/etc so maybe it just defaults to no scent because I've been too lazy to tell it otherwise. I'm offended on her behalf by the "GOOD" rating! I guess if I want it to be a useful resource I should contribute. Also my first instinct is to want to pet the kitties, but I know better. Especially when they're looking at you like that! Even house cats don't make that "sizing you up for a mob hit" kind of eye contact. That's a fantastic photo.

I have a spray of Aunt Margy on my desk right now and everyone I have encountered today has been forced to sniff it. (Did I mention it has the rose superpower of opening all buds in a spray at the same time? Maybe that's a polyantha thing) I'm going to call it "old rose" and see if Ingrid agrees. ;)

noseometer, you totally made my day with that lovely bobcat portrait. Unfortunately I've never had a camera handy when I've spotted them. My husband saw one sitting among the roses just a few feet from the French door but naturally I was not there. I imagine the poor things, along with the mountain lions, are having a very hard time in the drought and subsequently fewer prey animals. I live in the hills and there are mountain lions here but I've never seen one on our property, and I will not complain. Of course the fact that you do not see them does not mean they do not see you!

Yes, Aunt Margy's Rose to me also has an "old rose" smell to go along with its (diminutive) old rose appearance. It was much more apparent in pre-drought years but is a little more difficult to detect now. It's funny, on my plant some sprays do all open at the same time and some do not. It must be at the discretion of each individual bunch!

Ingrid, I just moved offices this week so I’m being introduced to new work neighbors, and I had a lady today say “whoa, I thought those were zinnias.” Then she smelled them and I gave her the “do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, old garden roses?” talk.

I may have created a monster on a very appropriate day for such endeavors and I am pleased.

Hastily assembled desk posey with SdlM and salvia:

So pretty! I had to laugh at your comment, lyanna. People often do tune out on me when I start in on roses. Every once in a while, someone’s interested. Maybe they’re just being polite, I don’t know.

Noseo, I adore your bobcat family photo! How amazing they must have been to see. It’s been many years since I’ve seen one around here, not since I was a child.

Rosefolly, I always detect a wonderful scent from Annie Laurie McDowell, and I don’t have the best sniffer. I’m looking forward to planting out the ALMD that Kim budded for me onto Pink Clouds. I’m making sure my battle with Dr. Huey is over in her spot first. I think I may have gotten rid of him for good this time. I just want to be sure, as it will be so much harder once ALMD is there. I don’t want anything happening to that precious rose!

By the way, I looked it up, and found that 10% of people actually like the scent of skunk! I guess I’m not the only one. Today, I’m smelling Baronne Prevost. She’s not quite as strong as my Bourbon roses, but still strong and wonderful. Lisa

Lyanna: so funny, and such a perfect description! I'm sure people glaze over when I start to talk roses, so I try to avoid it. To be honest, when I'm at a party and people start talking about their roses, I start to glaze over and tune out also. I.e. Them: "I heard you like roses. I have this really pretty one, I don't know what it is, but it is really pretty." Me: "Um...great. And is it...[pause] red?" Them: "Yes! [long pause] It's really pretty." Me: "Does it smell nice?" Them: [pause] "I don't know..." Me: "I'm ready for another drink...how about you?" I'm sure I'm a real bore at parties. Actually, my spouse and I have come up with a number of conversation starters/changers for just such occasions.

Oh, Noseometer, I would really like to know how to find that tiny perfume shop in Rome, in case I ever go there again! Bobcats are fantastic.

Monarda, all I can tell you is that it is near (walking distance to) the Pantheon. Make an adventure of it! Now I want to go back and find it (if it still exists). Tell me if you find it!

Re: Rosevangelism, if we're just talking about yards and plants, I'll shove in a quick "you know what works well here is the old roses, not the ones at Lowe's, I have a bunch and I love them" and leave it at that unless they follow up.

If they start the conversation, all bets are off and they get the whole spiel. The lady who thought my Aunt Margy was too pretty to be a rose, let alone fragrant, asked about SdlM "oh, is that one of the old roses?" so I felt it was my duty. ;)

When I first started lurking on here, ALMD was a hot topic and totally on my list, then I discovered how hard it was to get ahold of and now I want it even more!