You're right about that, Bobby Jones.

He is a builder and not a contractor. He hires contractors to build the house. His goal is to hire the cheapest contractor to do the job. Once the house is built he is going to down play any problems.

You can't call in experts until you understand the cause of the problem. The potential experts may include plumber, insulation, and mold remediation. I don't think you need a HVAC expert, but that is my opinion.

I agree it is a good idea to bring in knowledgeable people who you trust. But then the fight becomes who pays for their time and materials?

The mold problem seems to be correlated with the location of ductwork. I think removing the drywall wherever there is ductwork in the joist space is a logical next step.

After your builder's had time to assess the problem, ask him what he determined to be the root cause of the problem, how he determined it, and what will be done to prevent a recurrence. I think you'll be well served to give him a chance to determine and fix the problem before calling in the experts and the lawyers.

^^ this. There was not much in the OP's description that indicated the guy knows what is actually causing it. Make sure that's clear and that there isn't a reason to remove more drywall than just the wet spots.

With that much condensate I'd be storing it in a tank to water my lawn!

jkoeniger,
After reading your comment, I said outloud, "sweet jesus!". Not because i'm religious but because that's what my dad used to say when he heard about a devastating event happening to folks thru no fault of their own. Like instead of cursing say that⬆️⬆️⬆️.
Y'all have been thru it! My gosh. Things are looking up for y'all now cause they gotta be!!

Mr. Charles Ross Homes,
You're that calm voice advising the "wait & hear the plan" approach with my builder. I've actually always taken that approach with him. I've not hired a lawyer but I've spoken with one. I visited DHEC website today and discovered there's no laws, limits, restrictions blah blah regarding mold in any residence whether you just paid a fortune to have it custom built or not, I am feeling nauseated.
After reading the depressing news that no government agency enforces any rules, limitations, laws etc where mold is concerned I called a company specializing in mold testing and eradication. Since mold grows because of moisture they specialize in drying out, waterproofing in the nooks and crannies/ductwork of the house. If there's mold IN the ductwork it's pretty likely been spread to every room in the house. Doncha just love it.

So the "EPA certified" pro is coming Wednesday morning.

"Mold" is a word that strikes terror in the hearts of builders and homeowners alike. Unfortunately, many mold abatement firms profit handsomely from the fear factor. Proceed with caution.

Your builder has an interest in remedying the problem. He needs to learn what caused it, how to mitigate it, and how to prevent it from occurring on future builds.

Acting on proven facts and not speculation is the best way to solve the problem without the mold attacking your wallet, too.

keikee: I am having trouble with the following two sentences from your long post:

"I visited DHEC website today and discovered there's no laws, limits, restrictions blah blah regarding mold in any residence"

"So the "EPA certified" pro is coming Wednesday "

How is he certified if there are no rules? Or maybe I missed the sarcasm in the quotes on "EPA certified".

tox, and everyone. I literally haven't had time to complete a response update. I'll get started, greet interrupted and there you have it.
I added what I thought was a link to my last comment and instead it added a book. i'm going to edit out there book.

The mold specialist guy did not come. I called him to cancel for now and he talked to me about the type of mold he finds around here 90% of the time which I do have it written down and will provide that info. GAH. so now I have to pick someone up at the airport. I'm confused too. To the person confused or something about one of my comments. All i'm stating are the facts as I find them.
I'm confused too. Go to the DHEC site yourself. It only takes ac few seconds to find what I found...... to be cont...

I am going to copy this from an earlier post on the same subject...

Mold is one of those areas where there is a lot more misinformation than good information. Indoor molds are simply not that bad for you. The single study that found a connection between indoor mold and health problems was rescinded by the CDC when errors were found in the study. Since then hundreds of peer reviewed scientific studies have found no connection between indoor mold and health problems. The mycotoxins in indoor home environments simply don't approach harmful levels, and have really only been found in agricultural areas and buildings. In most of the country, indoor air tends to have fewer mold spores and mycotoxins than outdoor air. Feel free to look further into it, you can start here - http://users.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/soundscience/mold/gots1.html

Mostly, news and litigators exaggerated this story. This is not to say that mold should not be addressed, but it should be addressed in reasonable ways. Indoor molds may be problematic to those who already have a sensitivity to it, such as those allergic to mold and those with asthma, as an asthma sufferer I want to add, indoor environments are still better than outdoor, but you want your home to be as comfortable as possible, mold isn't really a problem for me personally, but dust and pollen can be.

Good luck.

bry911, if I understand correctly, your basic point is that the risk of disease from household mold may be overblown, and that may indeed be the case.

Your post prompted me to look up the CDC and see what they had to say. The CDC has quite a lot of info:

https://www.cdc.gov/mold/basics.htm

You can find on that page "Damp Indoor Spaces and Health: Summary of 2004 Institute of Medicine Report". Not sure if this is what bry911 is referring to. In any case the study reviewed a number of other studies. It has a big table listing health effects with varying levels of evidence that they can be caused by mold or damp interior spaces. Levels including "sufficient evidence", "limited or suggestive" and "inadequate or more info needed". They found a variety of things for which there is sufficient evidence they are caused by indoor mold, including

• upper respiratory symptoms
• cough
• wheeze
• asthma symptoms in sensitized asthmatic persons
• hypersensitivity pneumonitis (a relatively rare
  immune-mediated condition) in susceptible persons

It is worth noting that none of these is clearly a disease, as in 'infection'. However it is clear that mold can cause these conditions. So it should not be ignored. "Not that bad for you" is a relative term, and if you're the one with allergic symptoms caused by indoor mold, you will not want to hear that it's "not that bad".

I very much appreciate bry911's effort to take some of the emotion out of what is typically an emotionally-charged issue. Keeping it emotionally charged is usually to the benefit of insanely expensive mold remediation "experts" and indoor air quality "experts" and not so much to the benefit of homeowners.

It's worth noting that that the mold (or mildew) observed in this case is on the drywall in the garage--which is an unconditioned (and presumably not normally inhabited) area. Without conditioning, high dewpoints can lead to mold/mildew growth even without condensation or water leakage. It's unlikely that the small amount of mold or mildew growing outside the conditioned living area creates a significant health hazard. That said, the mold/mildew should be removed, the root cause should be identified and remedied.

Totally agree. This is more of a moisture problem with the house that needs to be remedied so the house isn't further damaged, rather than a health emergency for the occupants.

if I understand correctly, your basic point is that the risk of disease from household mold may be overblown, and that may indeed be the case.

Yes that is my point, and I am glad you agree. Moreover, even the health hazards of indoor mold are usually overblown.

The air you are breathing right now has mold spores in it, anywhere that humans inhabit has mold spores. Are you struggling to breath right now? If you are, it still probably isn't mold spores.

Mold spores are just like many, if not most, things in our environment, and are dangerous when they are too concentrated. Research even found that too much oxygen can be harmful. And we all know that way too much potassium can kill you, or too much radiation, etc.

So the question, isn't really "is mold bad for you." The question is really, "how much mold is too much mold." Nothing I have said would imply otherwise. In many areas of the country, indoor environments have significantly less mold than outdoor environments. That isn't surprising at all because the most dangerous buildings for indoor mold are agricultural buildings, specifically food and plant storage buildings where large quantities of plant materials are stored after being harvested. Most homes simply don't have the required amount of medium for mold spores to reach toxic levels on their own.

Of course, molds can aggravate existing conditions, but for most of us and in most houses mold simply doesn't reach the level of creating discomfort. I have asthma and I grew up in one of the higher mold count areas and it never has bothered me, in that area most homes would have fewer mold spores than just playing outside in the summer. Really, if you live somewhere that people cut their grass, odds are your outdoor mold is going to be higher than your indoor mold unless you are actively trying to grow mold.

--------

Again, this isn't to say that you shouldn't address your mold situation. You should, however, you should probably do it with vinegar just like your mother and grandmother did, rather than paying someone $10,000 to vinegar it for you. Obviously, if you are having breathing distress issues you should get someone else to address the problem for you.

Howdy y'all. Just an update on the mold issue. The piece of drywall my builder cut out of the garage ceiling is still sitting on my ladder's folding shelf. So the ladder hasn't moved, the duct work is wet & VERY cold to the touch. It's hot & humid as can be. I'll send him an email tomorrow asking about update on time frame for completion of repairs & cleanup.

Thanks for keeping us updated. Follow ups are what make these forums useful.

Has any water dripped onto the garage floor since the sheet rock has been removed?

2 weeks. This is the nightmare of trying to get fixes done by contractors on jobs they thought were 'finished.' I had the same problem with siding when it was replaced after a hail storm. Odd pieces at the top of the walls were coming loose. Just couldn't get the guy to come back. Eventually had to learn how to cut tabs and hook them into the starter strips myself. This is one reason I avoid hiring contractors if I can do it myself. I do nice work. :-]

K: hoping you made it through Florence OK.

mike_home, Hi everyone! I opened the garage door this morning & noticed a droplet of water on the floor. This is a bad pic but it's there. I was gone 10 minutes maybe but that spot was dry as a bone when I returned.

weedmeister, Thanks for asking! We were spared, thank god but friends in Wilmington are going thru hell with what is essentially a totaled home. Makes me want to cry just thinking about it.

toxcrusadr, I'm with you! Nagging isn't in my DNA & calling or writing someone every couple weeks to say, "hullooooo, remember me, your client?" feels a lot like nagging. Nagging a high school kid with ADHD whom you just want to take out the trash! GAH.

Oh! My builder just this minute, texted me!!! Him; "FYI, I will fix the duct work issue as soon as the weather changes. Need the ductwork to stop condensating so I can add/repair the insulation & duct work.". OMG. you've gotta be kidding! Not "Hello, how are you doing? etc" Let's just get right to the point, "FYI". GAH

jkoeniger, Thank you for sharing your experience!!!! Such good info! So sorry for your trouble though!!!

Well at least he's got a plan.

toxcru, You're right. I'm counting my blessings.

I am having trouble with the duct condensation theory. In a post above you reported there is spray foam insulation above the duct work, so that means the duct is in unconditioned space. But from the picture it looks like the duct is insulated, which is what you would expect. So the outside of the duct work should be well above the dew point. If that is the case then why would there be condensation?

You may have a condensation issue, but it may be coming from another source. This could also be a plumbing leak, or a plumbing condensation leak.

I suggest he verify the source of the leak. After the repairs are made, leave the sheet rock hole open for several weeks to verify the leak has actually been fixed.

@mike your assumption that the duct insulation (which appears to be fiberglass with a FRK vapor retarder) is adequate to prevent condensation might be a safe assumption in Maine, but it's likely to get you in trouble south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Here in coastal VA, I've seen surface condensation occur on FRK/fiberglass insulated ductwork in both unconditioned attics and unconditioned crawl spaces at modest conditions--let alone the high temp and high relative humidity conditions those spaces can experience in the summertime. This is why unconditioned crawl spaces should be outlawed in the south and why putting ductwork in an attic space is a last resort.

Consider that for a duct carrying 55 F air insulated on the exterior with typical FRK/fiberglass insulation you'd need more than 3 inches insulation thickness to prevent surface condensation when the conditions are 80 F and 80% relative humidity. 80 F and 80% R.H. are conditions likely to occur in unconditioned garages in the summer. It's also quite likely that the insulation installed on the OP's ductwork is less than 3 inches which would allow condensation to occur at even lower temps and relative humidity.

mold is insidious. it grows in a circle, duplicating itself rapidly, 1+1=4, it is also very dangerous, it penetrates everything. don't settle for lame excuses!

Charles Ross, you are probably correct about the duct condensation. But if that is the cause then all the duct work needs to be exposed and insulated. That will mean more sheet rock will have to be removed and replaced. The builder has not stated what the fix will be and is obviously looking to do the minimum amount of work.

In my experience you can't assume anything when it comes to these types of leaks. I had a leak in my new second floor bathroom that took a few months to figure out.

While we know that surface condensation can be expected to occur under certain conditions, we don't yet know if that is the root cause of the OP's problem. It needs further investigation in the field to make that determination.

Is it mold or mildew?
If it is mold you need a mold remediation company to come in and check and a plan to get rid of it. The plumbing and HVAC need to be checked - cutting out Sheetrock and replacing / cleaning isn’t going to solve this.
I’d find a 3rd party company to come in and do a thorough inspection. Your builder may just keep putting Band-Aids and letting time pass until the new home warranty runs out and then you’re on your own.

Mold and mildew are basically the same thing: fungi.

@toxcrusadr - fungi yes but no not the same.. mold needs professional attention, solving the problem and if very bad need to rip out and redo walls, floors, studs, etc. Mildew if cleaned properly and if area vented properly can be controlled.

we deal with mildew / mold as plumbers.. there is a difference.

Mildew is a surface fungi that can easily be identified as a patch of gray or even white fungus that is lying on the surface of a moist area. Mildew is easily treated with a store bought cleaner and a scrubbing brush.Mold, on the other hand, can be black or green and is often the result of a much larger infestation

fifamom, I believe I have both mild AND mildew because in two spots I can wipe it off.
The pictured area doesn't wipe off.

Someone mentioned ventilation.
When the doors are closed there is none.

I've been advised to install a dehumidifier, this by a construction crew a relative works with. I'm game to do that but just really want to see what my builder comes up with when he returns to do whatever he plans to do.
His message to me on Sept 18 or 20(I can't recall which), stated "we should wait for the weather to change". Oh boy!

I want y'all to know how much having your thoughts, opinions, suggestions, support & advice has meant.
It means EVERYTHING. Y'all rock. I wish I could buy y'all a beer or cook something......

I've been following along, as I like to learn from these experts. Your builder guy is not the type of person who takes pride in his work. He has:

1. Mislead you about when he would come, and what diagnostic tools he'd bring.

2. He has put you off and dismissed your concerns without looking at the situation.

3. He has failed and refused to promptly communicate with you, despite your reasonable efforts to accommodate his schedule.

4. He has not brought out any experts of his own, which experts should be handy and available to him, if he pays them.

5. He has left an ugly hole in your garage, with no imminent plans to clean up.

He should be embarrassed about this situation and working to investigate and remediate the problem. I have a plumber who is a people-person, reliable, reasonable, and very helpful. I'd call my plumber to look in there and investigate. Don't you have a person like that (meaning a knowledgeable, helpful service-person who won't rip you off)? If not, you need one. And indeed, why aren't you calling an expert, licensed and certified for this work?

If it's going to be an expensive or difficult repair, your builder doesn't sound like the guy to do it. I would be arming myself with FACTS about the issue. And I wouldn't rely on your builder to get ANYTHING right, without expert help on your side, helping you push your case.

What is the humidity level in the house? Installing a dehumidifier in the garage would seem impractical to me. You can't solve a problem when you don't understand the root cause.

Tell your builder the work is being done inside and he doesn't have to wait for the weather to change. That is just a stall tactic. If he is too busy then get a quote to fix the problem from a third party and give him the estimate. That will get you an independent assessment of the problem and the correct fix.

Mrs S
I have an electrician that has worked on my home generator on a warranty claim basis thru generac but they've only paid him for 3 hours working time when really he's worked on it for about 30 hours total. He tried to save the generator by not just upfront admitting it was messed up due to an improper installation. What happened was last year one of the hurricanes came thru knocked out the power. I invited 12 people to stay here because of the cat 4 wind resist windows, generator, living areas are built above any expected flood level, 13 concrete pillars driven into the earth etc.
Anyway, the power goes out but no generator kicks in so, my son and a couple neighbors go out, open the generator to find there's no battery! A neighbor provided a battery and those guys got the generator started but it wouldn't electrify the house. Upon further investigation, there's no line to the gas AND fuses are missing from the fusebox in the garage. I paid almost $2500 in just labor to install the generator.

I called the electrician myself after things blew over but his voice mail was full and the 2nd number I had for him was a fax machine. I faxed and wrote a letter while telling my builder everything. Electrician MIA.

Finally I get a call
"the electrician is coming"
"the electrician is coming. All hail(sp?)the electr....."
Electrician comes with wife/generator coach and then the electrician right hand man. Very nice guy. Warm. Genuine. Full of crap. Shouldn't be installing expensive home generators.

It was a lovely day so I sat on the lawn with his wife who's got the manual and is calling out to do this or that & then how to program the digital part. After a while, I think this chick has her shit together I'm leaving. I arrived home that evening to a note that they'd need access to the garage to replace the fuses that burned out when they cranked up the generator. k. I leave the sliding door unlocked and when I come home from work that afternoon I can tell they've been because the fuse box is closed so I assume I'm good but same time I don't know when to expect the generator to do its weekly test and I had another question about the wifi system program so I can monitor from afar thru my computer or smart phone.

I call the numbers that I verified with the guy and guess what? Voice mail full and number that sounds like a fax.

I call the builder and ask him to tell the guy I need more info. He doesn't call my builder back. He doesn't call me. a week later I bet an email from my builder saying the electrician is at his office wanting to get paid, he's everything been completed to my satisfaction?!!!! I call the builder direct and say, "hell no!!! He needs to straighten out this generator issue!!!".

Generac ends up voiding my generator warranty after they ask the new, generac certified electrician to send pix of the generator because he had to ask for a part called a "stador". I could be spelling that wrong for sure. The mother board was replaced first thing because it got fried when the generator was started without the gas line, battery or fuses.

I thought, that's it, I just want it gone. It's stupid to keep jumping thru hoops, this nice guy spending his Saturday or Sunday afternoons over here working on the generator for practically nothing. The new electrician sold me a brand new generator at his cost plus enough labor to pay his assist guy.

When I told my builder I had a guy working on a warranty claim basis to fix the generator, he said, "really? keep working with your guy.". Really? Ya think?

The day the builder came for the mold issue(I'd also informed him generac voided the warranty due to improper install)I took him to the generator and told him I felt that the money I paid for the generator, especially the install should be returned to me. He turned all bully/lawyer on me. I said it was not under warranty, didn't work and I was gonna have to have a new one(I'd already paid for, at cost but i'm not telling him).
He starts firing off stuff like "oh? you want me to have this taken away for you? I could have someone pick it up blah blah blah". I said, "pay me back what I paid you and have someone pick it up". He goes, " What was that? $500?". I looked at him to see if he was smiling but he wasn't!!!! I said "no!" and recited what I'd paid for the install and the 20kw generator. "oh really, I'll have to look at that". GRRRRRR

Nonetheless, I walk him to his truck ask him about a few people on his staff. 3 of the 4 I asked about are no longer working with him. Some drama about his commercial coordinator just quit and that his young runner dude dates the daughter of said coordinator.

I could ask my new electrician but I think I'll ask my brother to bring his co workers over here and I'll cook them something for their time and opinion. Those guys don't even mess with little houses like mine. Their boss builds multi million homes mostly on 2 of the resort islands nearby. They know what they're doing that's for sure.

Sorry for the book response. I'm so mad at my builder, so tired of worrying about this crap right now I just want to turn it over to an attorney & be done with it.

mike_home is right.. as are other posters.. you need a 3rd party totally uninvolved party to come out at your expense - they need to assess the situation and give you a report which should include what needs to be done to correctly resolve this.

Waiting for the weather to change might eliminate condensation...but then he can say "it looks dry to me!" and go on his way. If it's related to air conditioning, humidity and condensation, best to get in there while the weather is hot and humid and the AC is running.

I'm so sorry! I'm building a vaca home, small & cheap, yours is the stuff of my nightmares. Fortunately for us we built our upstate NY home ourselves and know the learning curve of dealing with 'them' who have not one ounce of pride & consider a con job as a job well done. We learned the hard way. There are good decent people out there, few & far between sorry to say. I would appeal to the Generac company. Explain the installation job. Communicate to just one person with the company, establish a relationship. If it helps, our Generac installer charged us over $2k above & beyond, plus $350 for an oil change when we needed one. We had a board go out too, the original guy pretty much said 'screw you', & we found a generac certified dealer through the company. This guy fixed ours in a heavy blizzard on a Saturday & was shocked when we told him the initial unit price & oil change charge. I guess my point is, hang in there ( trying to build a house 687 miles away that is my own advice too- lol) Small claims court may be a solution? Easy to file, cheap, but have your evidence ready, no emotion & a paper trial of all correspondence. Good luck, I feel for you.

At this point document everything and seek out a construction lawyer. Ask me how I know about doing that? Sigh.

Hi friends! Forgive me for taking so long to update but... It was months waiting for the "weather to change". First week of December I was told to expect someone coming to repair the garage ceiling, "take care of" the mold yada yada yada.
Two young men came. They worked for three hours & gone. I'm thinking they've completed what they're told to do. I went down and saw....a patched, with visible tape showing job and mold still on the ceiling.

A neighbor saw it and said it wasn't finished as in another step will come after it dries.

A couple days later the two return and work for approx three hours thirty minutes. They were having a great time that's fer sure. Laughing, talking non stop & some sort of tech gadget playing music at a tolerable level.
I was literally thinking maybe I should have what they had for breakfast!

Nonetheless, the work is finished. Later I went down to check it out and found a just fine repair and that they'd painted over the mold stain probably with Kilz or something. It appears they painted several coats but the mold is still visible thru the coats of paint. Plus, it's obvious there's two shades of white on the ceiling. Gah! I walked around and saw the other couple places were untouched and the moldy closet was even more moldy.

I could've called him and discussed this but mentally, I couldn't. That evening I decided I'm not talking to him again. Some lawyer can handle it because I'm done. The moldy garage is just one of several expensive issues I'm dealing with.

Next day, my generator guy comes around.
I give him an update of the moldy garage and other things and add that I'm done. A lawyer is in my near future.
He suggests I call the "state residential builders commission" & ask someone what's the protocol.

I have to write a letter called a "right to cure" to the builder giving them 30 days to fix what's broken. Uggggg.

Mid December my garage flooded. Again. Not from flood tides or anything like that. From rain. Lonnng story.

I've been printing pages and pages of correspondence, budget summary, SOW, contract. I'm told "the more details the better". So time consuming.

That's pretty much it.
Thank y'all again for your advice and ideas. Having y'all's input is priceless!!!!

The first pix are of wet cinder blocks just after the ceiling repair. I photographed the spots daily and they slowly dried. I have no idea what caused that!! Very mysterious.

If I were you I'd still get in touch with a construction lawyer at this point. We too have to do a similar thing like your right to cure but we did it through our lawyer. Friends didn't. Guess who the builder went to first and has been spending more time with?

I sure hope you haven't paid him all you owe him.

cpartist, IDK, who did the builder go to first and is spending more time with? He came to y'all and is working with y'all directly?

Yes he's been trying to get all our stuff done because we held back money and we're working with a construction lawyer.

Where are you now with your build and the mold problem?

Cpartist,
thank you for sharing that your lawyer is handling your "right to cure" because after printing out all the documentation and correspondence from our build, I was stuck on how to approach the actual letter.

called and spoke to a construction attorney, telling him, in a nutshell about my problems with the builder, what I was advised to do re: right to cure and that I'm overwhelmed and out of ideas at how to approach the letter.

He told me to come to the office Monday afternoon & bring all the documentation. He has court so I have an appointment with his paralegal & then meet him Wednesday.

He promised me that my builder will receive a "right to cure on steroids" by next Friday via registered us mail.

I feel somewhat relieved but I don't really think my builder is capable of remedying the issues with my house.

I mean, his standards in some important areas obviously don't match mine. Or any of my neighbors for that matter. Or any of y'alls. Hahaha. SO not funny.

I'll keep you updated! Please keep us(me) updated back when everything at your place is done to your satisfaction.

mike_home, You & my generator guy are on the same page in that the gen guy said, "he's just biding his time". Just so disturbing and I can hardly wait to put this in the hands of a capable lawyer.

It is a shame this builder has to operate this way. I hope you have a good lawyer and can get it resolved.